''Jobs For The Boys''

[JamieG54 812]

One of the more popular phrases used these days with Ally and his signing targets or coaching staff.

Do we really think Ally just wants to sign his pals for a jolly up or training or do you think he is restricted because of the scouting network situation?

Would Ally be targeting Boyd Miller if he had some scouts at games?

If we go back to the Whyte era, we were after Cuellar even though the bids were low, Ally quite publicly stated he wanted him. When we went into Administration we had Cousin signed up but it was stopped late on. We had a scouting network then.

Im all for Boyd joining bacause he brings goals and him with Nicky could be an exciting partnership. But I would like to see him go away from even the Spl players and sign young guys from England or europe. I dont want Ryan Stevensen or Tom Hately at our club as they wont be good enough when we get to the top tier to challenge Celtic.

Does Ally need to change his coaches/pals? Would he benefit from having something different tactical awareness wise?

[Robespierre 589]

I think he would benefit from a director of football.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Rangers have always had a jobs for the boys mentality - sometimes good sometimes bad

Durie seems like a good appointment in the reserves but giving guys like Dawson, Cleland, Wright coaching jobs that amounted to nothing and Neil Murray a head scouts job and even Durrant as reserve team manager and dug out guy isn't wise moves

I didn't even like Greg's role either. No one should be getting 25 years worth of jollies, fancy cars, expenses and European ticketing and travel monopolies off us - greatest ever Ranger or not

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I think folk need to be qualified for the job they have - and if they are an ex player AND qualified why not? They do at least know the expectations and unique pressures.

We are slightly fascinated by ex players and again I think that stems from familiarity - we know what Boyd can do, we knew what Cuellar could so etc. So if those ex players have attractive qualities we want them back - and as long as signings ( player or coach or scout) are made with competence in mind I see nought wrong with signing ex players.

[elephants stoned 2,994]

Rangers have always had a jobs for the boys mentality - sometimes good sometimes bad

Durie seems like a good appointment in the reserves but giving guys like Dawson, Cleland, Wright coaching jobs that amounted to nothing and Neil Murray a head scouts job and even Durrant as reserve team manager and dug out guy isn't wise moves

I didn't even like Greg's role either. No one should be getting 25 years worth of jollies, fancy cars, expenses and European ticketing and travel monopolies off us - greatest ever Ranger or not

This nothing wrong with it when it goes well (Durie, Walter & Ally 07\11) but doing it as a matter of course when there's better candidates out there is silly and holds us back.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,725]

Qualified and affordable. The best available for the job. If after that they so happen to be an ex ger too then fine.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

I think he would benefit from a director of football.

Agreed. His signings are rotten the responsibility should be taken out of his hands.

[Thewhitesettler 2,711]

I don't think that Carlos Cuellar is as good as everyone thinks he is.

Bringing back former players has never worked well in the past, it may have got a few thousand more Bears through the turnstiles for a few games, immediately after they've re-signed, thinking about Baxter, W. Johnston, etc.

We should be looking to the future, maybe with a Director of Football, & leave the manager to manage team responsibilities.

Ideally, I'd prefer for us to have no manager, but a Head Coach, who deals solely with the team. Have a Stadium Manager, who deals with non-footballing stuff, & a Director of Football, who would oversee signings, contracts etc. in conjunction with the Head Coach.

So instead of the Head Coach saying to the D of F 'I want this player or that player' He would say to him ' I want 2 centre backs, & a right back' then the D of F would source players within the budget, & the HC could take his pick from a selection, if indeed there was a selection. It works, like this, quite well on the continent, where managers are coaches, & concentrate only on the footballing side of their club.

[DP FC 400]

So instead of the Head Coach saying to the D of F 'I want this player or that player' He would say to him ' I want 2 centre backs, & a right back' then the D of F would source players within the budget, & the HC could take his pick from a selection, if indeed there was a selection. It works, like this, quite well on the continent, where managers are coaches, & concentrate only on the footballing side of their club.

And who gets sacked when it goes wrong? Is it the DOF because the players are crap? Or the coach because he can't get anything out of said players?

Not for me, we would end up continually changing coaches, just like many clubs in England do. There would be less stability than there is just now IMO.

Can you imagine the factions on here? Even more sides to take.

[Adoniram 1,919]

I think folk need to be qualified for the job they have - and if they are an ex player AND qualified why not? They do at least know the expectations and unique pressures.

We are slightly fascinated by ex players and again I think that stems from familiarity - we know what Boyd can do, we knew what Cuellar could so etc. So if those ex players have attractive qualities we want them back - and as long as signings ( player or coach or scout) are made with competence in mind I see nought wrong with signing ex players.

Except in a couple of years time when they have no resale value and we have to start all over again.

It is laziness pure and simple to look to sign Boyd (and i am a big fan of his) or Cuellar or Hutton or players like that.

It's also the identikit of the player McCoist prefers "coaching"

The problem is that now we have no choice but to look at players like Boyd because of the policy he has implemented.

And it also means the promising youngsters have less chance of getting valuable game time...just like under Smith all those years ago.

Absolutely nothing has changed in our outlook or mentality and approach to the game of football.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Except in a couple of years time when they have no resale value and we have to start all over again.

It is laziness pure and simple to look to sign Boyd (and i am a big fan of his) or Cuellar or Hutton or players like that.

It's also the identikit of the player McCoist prefers "coaching"

The problem is that now we have no choice but to look at players like Boyd because of the policy he has implemented.

And it also means the promising youngsters have less chance of getting valuable game time...just like under Smith all those years ago.

Absolutely nothing has changed in our outlook or mentality and approach to the game of football.

... I think we are all aware of the need to develop our own - but even the mighty Barcca, Ajax, Arsenal, who have recognised GREAT youth development buy in quality - look at Man City - meant to be the best Youth Academy in England (if not THE best it sure is one of the best) and they have no-one playing that they developed.

Ally (or whomever) needs to buy to supplement what we 'develop' - the KEY, on which we all agree, is that any spend (no matter who the manager is) has to be within a sustainable budget. Now, one can invest and then look to be sustainable on an ongoing basis later on (King Model) or we can grow organically with no more investment. The key is delivering sucess - the club needs to be sustainable BUT the club will beed to buy as well.

[Adoniram 1,919]

... I think we are all aware of the need to develop our own - but even the mighty Barcca, Ajax, Arsenal, who have recognised GREAT youth development buy in quality - look at Man City - meant to be the best Youth Academy in England (if not THE best it sure is one of the best) and they have no-one playing that they developed.

Ally (or whomever) needs to buy to supplement what we 'develop' - the KEY, on which we all agree, is that any spend (no matter who the manager is) has to be within a sustainable budget. Now, one can invest and then look to be sustainable on an ongoing basis later on (King Model) or we can grow organically with no more investment. The key is delivering sucess - the club needs to be sustainable BUT the club will beed to buy as well.

And this is where i vehemently disagree with the policy our manager has embarked on. He can bleat on all he wants about it not being his fault we have no money but he was the one who decided on this policy. He decided to target players whose wages would be far in excess of what was sensible and what was required in the lower divisions.

If £30m is going to be invested (and for the record i don't think it will be) then the bulk of that money is going to be used in running costs and sustaining a business that either operates within its means or handles a small loss for a few years.

Ultimately the policy that McCoist chose to adopt is one that will ensure the need to spend big every year just like the boom and bust eras of the past.

As Dave King says what has happened has happened but my big fear is we will never break out of this boom and bust mentality..ever.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,789]

And this is where i vehemently disagree with the policy our manager has embarked on. He can bleat on all he wants about it not being his fault we have no money but he was the one who decided on this policy. He decided to target players whose wages would be far in excess of what was sensible and what was required in the lower divisions.

If £30m is going to be invested (and for the record i don't think it will be) then the bulk of that money is going to be used in running costs and sustaining a business that either operates within its means or handles a small loss for a few years.

Ultimately the policy that McCoist chose to adopt is one that will ensure the need to spend big every year just like the boom and bust eras of the past.

As Dave King says what has happened has happened but my big fear is we will never break out of this boom and bust mentality..ever.

Did you happen to see the article in The Guardian on Kenny Jackett? The way he talked about rebuilding Wolves after their successive repegations is exactly the sort of approach that we needed to take but so far it's mainly been nothing more than lip service.

[AllyDawson72 213]

And this is where i vehemently disagree with the policy our manager has embarked on. He can bleat on all he wants about it not being his fault we have no money but he was the one who decided on this policy. He decided to target players whose wages would be far in excess of what was sensible and what was required in the lower divisions.

If £30m is going to be invested (and for the record i don't think it will be) then the bulk of that money is going to be used in running costs and sustaining a business that either operates within its means or handles a small loss for a few years.

Ultimately the policy that McCoist chose to adopt is one that will ensure the need to spend big every year just like the boom and bust eras of the past.

As Dave King says what has happened has happened but my big fear is we will never break out of this boom and bust mentality..ever.

Agree with every word of this.

I actually see Ally as dangerous to our club. He will hide behind the cloak of popularity that he has among some of our fans from his playing days and his soundbites when we went into admin. This cloak protects him from real scrutiny and allows him far more power at our club any manger should be afforded.

The day I knew Ally was going to be a total disaster for us was after the Forfar game when he said his team were in the stands and that was not his team. For a manager earning the best part of a million a year in the lowest reaches of Scottish football that should have been his jotters there and then.

Jobs for the boys is rife under Ally and he would do anything to protect his friends and performance will not be a contributing factor in considering anyones dismissal. He got the job because of one man. Its called nepotism and has no place at our great club.

[Allanger 625]

Ally's position within the club was in essence "Jobs for the boys"

[MasterD 7,435]

Usually a daft term that gets thrown about when someone doesn't like an appointment or signing.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Did you happen to see the article in The Guardian on Kenny Jackett? The way he talked about rebuilding Wolves after their successive repegations is exactly the sort of approach that we needed to take but so far it's mainly been nothing more than lip service.

No i didn't but can't say i am surprised.

We cannot sustain the present squad without investment and if we increase our expenditure then we have to substantially increase our revenue.

And with the fair play rules coming in to force soon can we even take King's investment without it breaking these rules?

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,789]

No i didn't but can't say i am surprised.

We cannot sustain the present squad without investment and if we increase our expenditure then we have to substantially increase our revenue.

And with the fair play rules coming in to force soon can we even take King's investment without it breaking these rules?

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/21/kenny-jackett-reversed-wolves-releagation-run

Makes a lot of sensible and relevant points in there that could easily be applied to the situation we found ourselves in in Summer 2012.

I have no problems with investment I just don't want it all to be thrown into the playing squad for the single goal of challenging celtic ASAP. Some of it will obviously need to be spent in that manner when the time is right (Summer 2014 isn't that time IMO) but investing in the infrastructure of the club will be just as good an investment in the long term as splashing money on players for the here and now will be and I hope some of it is earmarked for that too.

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

... I think we are all aware of the need to develop our own - but even the mighty Barcca, Ajax, Arsenal, who have recognised GREAT youth development buy in quality - look at Man City - meant to be the best Youth Academy in England (if not THE best it sure is one of the best) and they have no-one playing that they developed.

Ally (or whomever) needs to buy to supplement what we 'develop' - the KEY, on which we all agree, is that any spend (no matter who the manager is) has to be within a sustainable budget. Now, one can invest and then look to be sustainable on an ongoing basis later on (King Model) or we can grow organically with no more investment. The key is delivering sucess - the club needs to be sustainable BUT the club will beed to buy as well.

You should maybe not include Ajax in your list as they regularly take more in in transfer value than they pay out. Theirs would seem to be the best, sustainable, model to try and follow. Of course we still need to bring players in but concentrating on younger players with a possible sell on value with the very occasional 'old head' would seem the best fit.

You also exclude the best clubs at bringing younger players through in the EPL, Aston Villa have a number of their youth products in the team and Man United have had a player developed by the club in their first team every season since the 1950s. I would see the EPL youth teams as a source of young talent, many players are released and some will be of a standard that is likely to be higher than those available locally.

Bringing the coaching into line through the age groups up to (and including) first team would make sense too. Everyone playing the same way and (in younger age groups) less emphasis on results and more on technique seems to pay dividends for Ajax. There is no reason why the Ajax philosophy cannot be bought to Rangers with the proviso that we employ coaches of the required mindset and fans understand what is in place.

[Adoniram 1,919]

http://www.theguardi...releagation-run

Makes a lot of sensible and relevant points in there that could easily be applied to the situation we found ourselves in in Summer 2012.

I have no problems with investment I just don't want it all to be thrown into the playing squad for the single goal of challenging celtic ASAP. Some of it will obviously need to be spent in that manner when the time is right (Summer 2014 isn't that time IMO) but investing in the infrastructure of the club will be just as good an investment in the long term as splashing money on players for the here and now will be and I hope some of it is earmarked for that too.

Worrying what they do instead of setting your own benchmarks is what concerns me.

I couldn't give a rats arse if they do 10 tainted titles in a row.

All i care about is that we set up a system that makes us self sufficient and rears excellent youth prospects instead of having to pay over the odds for average run of the mill players.

My worry is we are too far down the road now and the inevitable spend spend spend cries will start rearing their ugly head the closer we get to the SPFL.

[Bobby Hume 13,086]

Sadly, since it all went to the wind in 2012, it has been an uphill battle on all fronts at Ibrox. Being the biggest club in the country, all we did was buy to replace, most of the time. We never had a system in place, or in fact a mentality, that could have prepared us for the situation that we found ourselves in.

Players' abandoning ship, transfer embargo, little time to repair the storm damage caused by the unhelpful governing bodies, limits' on the players' ages who we could play, and a coaching staff, seemingly unable, to bring out the best in the players' we had left at our disposal to fight the cause. It all helped to bring us to where we are to-day.

It seems that we have missed the boat, we had the chance to change things, but did not, but we still climbed up the leagues, ugly as it has been at times, we are still here competing. Nothing can change what has happened, that's for sure, and I don't think it will change, unless, the "Jobs' for the boys'" attitude is tempered and changed to "Jobs for the boys' who are capable", thereby taking us further on the road to a sustainable future.

People who have the ability to perform, should only be employed at Rangers, the old pals' act doesn't cut it any more. people are getting tired of the same old pals' act, letting us down, more often than not.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

And this is where i vehemently disagree with the policy our manager has embarked on. He can bleat on all he wants about it not being his fault we have no money but he was the one who decided on this policy. He decided to target players whose wages would be far in excess of what was sensible and what was required in the lower divisions.

If £30m is going to be invested (and for the record i don't think it will be) then the bulk of that money is going to be used in running costs and sustaining a business that either operates within its means or handles a small loss for a few years.

Ultimately the policy that McCoist chose to adopt is one that will ensure the need to spend big every year just like the boom and bust eras of the past.

As Dave King says what has happened has happened but my big fear is we will never break out of this boom and bust mentality..ever.

I disagree on so many points - Ally had to deliver a team that did the job - with no risk to not achieving it. ( and for the record I don't think a monkey managing a team of kids would have done that).

Ally's budget for playing staff is running at 30% if turnover , while that is high for these leagues we are Rangers, and that level of spend should never have led to us running out of cash - the bulk of the blame for that lies elsewhere!

How much and how quick we invest is a factor on how quick we want to be back at the top - IMHO without investment it's a 5-10 year plan, shortened by investment in playing staff.

I also reiterate as we move forward that these are the choices no matter the manager.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

You should maybe not include Ajax in your list as they regularly take more in in transfer value than they pay out. Theirs would seem to be the best, sustainable, model to try and follow. Of course we still need to bring players in but concentrating on younger players with a possible sell on value with the very occasional 'old head' would seem the best fit.

You also exclude the best clubs at bringing younger players through in the EPL, Aston Villa have a number of their youth products in the team and Man United have had a player developed by the club in their first team every season since the 1950s. I would see the EPL youth teams as a source of young talent, many players are released and some will be of a standard that is likely to be higher than those available locally.

Bringing the coaching into line through the age groups up to (and including) first team would make sense too. Everyone playing the same way and (in younger age groups) less emphasis on results and more on technique seems to pay dividends for Ajax. There is no reason why the Ajax philosophy cannot be bought to Rangers with the proviso that we employ coaches of the required mindset and fans understand what is in place.

Ajax invested heavily to put that set up in place and took a long term view - as did Barca.

As for taking EPL rejects is that where our ambition is now - not greatness but sustainability - or profits for the investors. I think we need investment and to be run as a not for profit company

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

Ajax invested heavily to put that set up in place and took a long term view - as did Barca.

As for taking EPL rejects is that where our ambition is now - not greatness but sustainability - or profits for the investors. I think we need investment and to be run as a not for profit company

Some EPL 'rejects' go on to have pretty succesful careers. Guiseppe Rossi is one that instantly springs to mind. In the short to medium term we need to look for sustainability and to make more from our transfer dealings than we spend. You seem to be living in a parallel universe if you think that we can achieve greatness without a sustainable plan. There are a number of 'rejects' from the top clubs who ply their trades successfully in the EPL and Championship (Ryan Shawcross, Robby Brady, Danny Drinkwater amongst others) are you saying players like that wouldn't be worth considering?

I'm guessing you live in a very small football bubble and know little of the players that you class as 'rejects'? Ajax have had that model in place for many many years and, as we have a world class training facility, a portion of the cost is removed. Putting a football philosophy in place is not that expensive it just needs implementing after taking the best of other clubs methods.

You don't seem keen on using younger players to take the club forward, are you Kris Boyd or Kenny Millers agent?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Some EPL 'rejects' go on to have pretty succesful careers. Guiseppe Rossi is one that instantly springs to mind. In the short to medium term we need to look for sustainability and to make more from our transfer dealings than we spend. You seem to be living in a parallel universe if you think that we can achieve greatness without a sustainable plan. There are a number of 'rejects' from the top clubs who ply their trades successfully in the EPL and Championship (Ryan Shawcross, Robby Brady, Danny Drinkwater amongst others) are you saying players like that wouldn't be worth considering?

I'm guessing you live in a very small football bubble and know little of the players that you class as 'rejects'? Ajax have had that model in place for many many years and, as we have a world class training facility, a portion of the cost is removed. Putting a football philosophy in place is not that expensive it just needs implementing after taking the best of other clubs methods.

You don't seem keen on using younger players to take the club forward, are you Kris Boyd or Kenny Millers agent?

Management and strategy is always very easy when your not responsible for it. Of course I want a sustainable model but something you fail to grasp is the level of investment to even get to an Ajax level. Ajax did not have to start at the bottom and rebuild a top level squad - not even close.

Still we at fans - so easy from the sidelines