Playing The Advantage Before Issuing A Straight Red

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,933]

Want to see something even worse than that? Fancy finding Zaliukas in the top pic.

he's the one chasing back further up the park than mcculloch isnt he

[tannerall 25,935]

It's very sunny outside, and I'm sitting like a wee cave troll arguing about a decision.

It's great, but it's also terribly sad.

Naw,it's where your passion lies, it's been a great afternoon weatherwise here, but I'm still on here indoors giving it big licks Rangers wise on here. Rangers are my drug of choice and I'm definitely an addict.

(am now going to get back in garden and plant some plants, a bottle of very nice white wine has made my mind upon this, should have done it a few hours ago.......

[ScottBF2 3,540]

If you're going to issue a red I'm of the opinion that the advantage is already being given. What if we then have a situation where McGregor had committed another foul which warrants a Red, do we get reduced to 9?

If the play is stopped to deal with the original foul then mcregor wouldn't have been in a situation where a foul would have been made.

Play should stop, the other team are being reduced to 10 men which is a major advantage already?

[Loyal Bear 72 363]

First scenario is seriously flawed. The advantage is played for hearts, the ref would surely stop the game if we were to regain possession and attempt a counter attack.

The ref should not stop the game in this situation as having a clean shot on goal would be classed as the advantage. The play should continue until stopped at which point the ref would either talk to the player or issue a yellow card. Even if the team with the offending player go up the other end and score.

[the_r_sole 366]

If your auntie had baws...

so the ref has to take the players pace into consideration?!

top image there is one defender about in line with the attacker, there is another maybe half a yard closer to the goal... the attacker is running onto a ball with pace, there is no way the ref could call that back looking at the state of play in the screen grab - yes the boy fucked it up but the ref can't just pull it back when it looks like one touch could have given him a one on one, keeper is also far enough off his line, what if that ball sits up nicely for a wee lob?! the whole point in the advantage rule is to let the move develop...

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,933]

If you're going to issue a red I'm of the opinion that the advantage is already being given. What if we then have a situation where McGregor had committed another foul which warrants a Red, do we get reduced to 9?

If the play is stopped to deal with the original foul then mcregor wouldn't have been in a situation where a foul would have been made.

Play should stop, the other team are being reduced to 10 men which is a major advantage already?

unless its for violent conduct iirc the ref brings it back to mccullochs foul and mcgregor gets off scot free while jig gets the red

if mcgregor just boots somecunt though (violent conduct) he can go off as well

[Inigo 32,675]

There's no definitive interpretation of it but here's how FIFA define it for the offence of 'denying a obvious goalscoring opportunity'

Using that then it's a push to say Jigs challenge presented Hearts with a clear goalscoring opportunity.

I'm beginning to think you're at it! Using those parameters, this is a clear goalscoring opportunity...

Added to that here's how US Soccer further intreprets it for it's officials (couldn't see anything else from other Associations on my cursory look)

Yer strugglin now, mate.

So there were two defenders between the foul and the goal, not including Bell.

The foul was roughly 30 yards out.

Zeefuik was a good 5 yards away at the time the foul was committed (although thats more aimed at the player fouled rather than another player picking up posession as a result of the foul)

The ball was at least going in the right direction.

There 2 defenders betweent he foul and the goal isn't really relevant there, unlike an actual last man challenge relating to a chance in itself. What transpired immediately is the important bit, and there were no men between Zeefuik and the goal.

That opportunity happened instantaneously, so the referee had to regard that as a subsequently created clear goalscoring opportunity in the context of a serious foul play event, which is different from a last man challenge in terms of how you would go about interpreting the timing of a clear goalscoring opportunity.

I think the pic you posted is pretty conclusive, in judging what the ref should have done. One last time, this is what he saw the millisecond after the challenge took place...

[Inigo 32,675]

Want to see something even worse than that? Fancy finding Zaliukas in the top pic.

Well, yes.

[The Dude 20,026]

he's the one chasing back further up the park than mcculloch isnt he

Aye. You know we're fucked when Jig is the one holding the line

[Inigo 32,675]

If you're going to issue a red I'm of the opinion that the advantage is already being given. What if we then have a situation where McGregor had committed another foul which warrants a Red, do we get reduced to 9?

If the play is stopped to deal with the original foul then mcregor wouldn't have been in a situation where a foul would have been made.

Play should stop, the other team are being reduced to 10 men which is a major advantage already?

Yeah, definitely warrants another red. The ultimate advantage in that situation is a a goal, so far as the ref's concerned.

[ScottBF2 3,540]

Yeah, definitely warrants another red. The ultimate advantage in that situation is a a goal, so far as the ref's concerned.

In the interest of fairness though, surely in this situation, sending off a player gives a bigger advantage than a possible goals coring opportunity. It's basically a double advantage.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,933]

Yeah, definitely warrants another red. The ultimate advantage in that situation is a a goal, so far as the ref's concerned.

i dont think it warrants another red as the ref blows up for the original foul as there is no clear advantage (as mcgregor halts the advantage)

[Inigo 32,675]

In the interest of fairness though, surely in this situation, sending off a player gives a bigger advantage than a possible goals coring opportunity. It's basically a double advantage.

It's up to you not to commit two fouls then. If you do, then tough titty, I would say. You've stopped a goalscoring opportunity, then you've done it again. The ref didn't make you do that. That would leave it open to a player deciding 'naw, yer no having that advantage' and just rugby tackling the guy with the advantage.

[Inigo 32,675]

i dont think it warrants another red as the ref blows up for the original foul as there is no clear advantage (as mcgregor halts the advantage)

Disagree. I think once the ref has decided to play on, it's a new phase of play. I suppose it might depend on when the second foul happened, if it was straight away, before the ref had decided to go with an advantage, or if it was delayed, after the ref had decided to go with the advantage. Because then it is a second phase, and the defender can't just be allowed to do whatever he wants to stop a goal at that point.

[ScottBF2 3,540]

It's up to you not to commit two fouls then. If you do, then tough titty, I would say. You've stopped a goalscoring opportunity, then you've done it again. The ref didn't make you do that. That would leave it open to a player deciding 'naw, yer no having that advantage' and just rugby tackling the guy with the advantage.

Surely that's the point of it. Professional foul is a tactical decision, as are "clever" fouls. It's made with the intention of stopping an attack or a goalscoring opportunity.

Ole Gunnar Solksjaer committed of the finest examples. Ran the length of the pitch, took the player out and got sent off. He was wildly applauded for it, congratulated as he left the pitch by his teammates. This "advantage" shite takes away from it.

[Barasa 802]

Hopefully our manager fines Jig 2 weeks wages.

Ref was wrong unless decision was made by other official as jig could have affected further play.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,933]

Disagree. I think once the ref has decided to play on, it's a new phase of play. I suppose it might depend on when the second foul happened, if it was straight away, before the ref had decided to go with an advantage, or if it was delayed, after the ref had decided to go with the advantage. Because then it is a second phase, and the defender can't just be allowed to do whatever he wants to stop a goal at that point.

im not sure, im sure i seen it in the EPL once where a player was fouled outside the box but was able to continue his run (stumble) and in control of the ball, he was then susequently fouled inside the box and because there was no advantage the ref HAD to bring it back for the first foul which gave a free kick instead of the penalty

i may be wrong though

[Inigo 32,675]

Surely that's the point of it. Professional foul is a tactical decision, as are "clever" fouls. It's made with the intention of stopping an attack or a goalscoring opportunity.

Ole Gunnar Solksjaer committed of the finest examples. Ran the length of the pitch, took the player out and got sent off. He was wildly applauded for it, congratulated as he left the pitch by his teammates. This "advantage" shite takes away from it.

Well, it's a different thing to say you want to get rid of the advantage rule. If a player tries to stop an attack by being cynical and fails, I don't think we should then make him successful by taking away the impetus for the opposing team on his behalf. It's only clever if he actually stops the attack, which he hasn't if there continues to be an attack that the ref can give 'advantage' to.

[kaiser1041 9,088]

Should have been stopped instantly like all head knocks.the referee was an absolute wanker all game.

[Inigo 32,675]

im not sure, im sure i seen it in the EPL once where a player was fouled outside the box but was able to continue his run (stumble) and in control of the ball, he was then susequently fouled inside the box and because there was no advantage the ref HAD to bring it back for the first foul which gave a free kick instead of the penalty

i may be wrong though

I can see that in that instance, if it occurs before the ref has decided to give an advantage. Once the advantage is given though, the first player wouldn't get a red, because no foul has been given and he hasn't successfully denied a chance, only the second guy would get a red if he then denied another chance.

I think the only reason two could be justified in the Jig one is because the first isn't for denying a chance, it's for serious foul play. So if McGregor then denies a chance then he'd be sent off for that.

[dummiesoot 16,115]

I thought it was strange more because of the head injury scenario they always bleat on about, play must be stopped. Deffo red but during the build up to our first we had advantage played for a late / off the ball challenge yet the hearts player was not booked.

Madden did a cunt of a job yesterday though stonewall correct issuing a red to our captain.

[dummiesoot 16,115]

Another thing about Madden, when was the last time a ref booked a goalie in any game for time wasting, couldn't wait to book Cammy yesterday.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

First scenario is seriously flawed. The advantage is played for hearts, the ref would surely stop the game if we were to regain possession and attempt a counter attack.

No. The advantage only lasts for a brief period. If you get a decent shot away and it goes narrowly wide, you've had your advantage.

If it comes of the post and the other team score from the breakaway, you've still had your advantage, but just messed up the chance and it backfired on you, partly because of your own inadequate defending after taking the advantage, but not making the most of it.

[now then forever 298]

Play should be stopped for a head injury..

[AyeReadyStu 70]

This is the kind of situation where football could learn from the 'delayed penalty' rule in ice hockey. Advantage gets played then as soon as the opposition touches the ball the ref whistles and stops play.