Coaching Defense

[JockyWilsonspants 80]

54 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

Well, look at it this way. Is a good manager not one whom uses his assets to make the best team possible? Use people to their strengths etc? If there's one person out of our coaches I would expect to be helping out the defenders it would be Weir.

However, the fact is none of us know. If he's not involved then I'd find that quite unforgivable unless there's a very good reason for it.

 

The thing is we don't know what Weir's strengths are as a coach. Just because he was a good defender doesn't make him a good coach of defenders. I would kinda hope Weir works with the defenders more than he works with the strikers, but this is far from being a specialist defensive coach. Plus, even if he were a defence specialist his hands are tied in terms of set-up. I would think most specialist defensive coaches would advocate 10 men behind the ball at all times. If Warburton's demanding attacking football then the defence coach is fucked from the very start.

I have the sneaking suspicion that many assistant managers are employed purely because they are trusted by the manager; not trusted to coach but trusted to be the managers eyes and ears, a good man manager etc. I think many assistant managers are fairly mediocre at coaching the technical stuff. I am however speaking through ignorance on Weir as a coach/assistant. I really have no idea what his strengths are other than he seems a fairly decent guy when he's interviewed on telly.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

I really don't understand this theory that being good in a position in your playing days means you'll be good at coaching it.

If it was that easy we could just get Goram in to coach the keepers, Gough in to coach the defence, Gazza in to coach the midfielders and McCoist to coach the strikers and we would win the league every season. 

Maybe big Davie is just a shite coach?

Maybe it's out defenders that are just shite players?

Maybe it's both?

[gmcf 34,350]

3 hours ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

He's assistant manager, do we even know if he takes responsibility for defensive coaching?

Ultimately buck stops with MW. If he can't sort it it's his fault. If it's someone else's specific coaching  responsibility he has to get them to sort it or get someone in who can. Otherwise, again, it's his fault.

I kinda agree with this .

I'd expect DW should have the expertise to defend set pieces and to pass that on to the current crop of players . For one reason or another that's not happening , and although i think we've improved in that , we're still not quite there . 

However you're right , the buck stops with the manager . If his style is that he wants the defense to push up in open play , often leaving ourselves open at the back , or play it out short at the back , I don't think there's much DW can do if that's the way MW wants to play the game . 

 

 

[Gazza1212 1,212]

Coaching only goes so far. First you need guys with the basic attributes it takes to be a good defender. We're talking prerequisites to do the job here and I'd list them in this order.

1) determination i.e. dogged determination to very rarely let a man get past you. All the best backs look as if they take it as a personal insult to get beaten by a winger. Now look at Tav, he gets beaten in defence almost every game he plays. Never  learns and never improves.

2) Anticipation /awareness ,very few centre halfs are blessed with pace and those who are usually cost a fortune so guys like Gough, Butcher, Weir, Cuellar etc when up against pace were able to counter that threat with great awareness. Now look at Both our current centre halfs. Beaten time and again in a foot race because of naive positional sense. 

3) Aggression/ organisation, how many times have we seen our defenders beaten to cross balls because they're facing the wrong way or worse letting an opponent give them the slip. It truely is embarrassing and there are numerous instances of this even in games we've picked up full points. How much dare I say it an Andrews ? or the like to keep it simple and make defending you're  first priority. 

I have very serious doubts now if even given the funds that the manager could spot a good defender. In the current situation it looks as though we'll never know. What is abundantly clear is no amount of coaching will significantly improve the very sub standard level of player we have at the back. They simply don't have what it takes at this level , and thats it in a nutshell im afraid.

[Young Bob 1,360]

Does anyone know what Weir actually does on a daily basis at Auchenhowie?

[Juniorsparkie 491]

This must be the least protected defence we've ever had.

The RB goes walkabout, nobody in Midfield tracks back.

Jeez Kenny Miller was tracking back the other week ffs.

Great effort but not what's wanted from him.

The rest of the team are midgets no aerial presence whatsoever, how many goals have we lost at set pieces ? ( actually tightened up on that but hey ho )

Can you see this lot playing for a draw with any confidence ?

?

[Juniorsparkie 491]

1 hour ago, TheLoudenTavernier said:

I really don't understand this theory that being good in a position in your playing days means you'll be good at coaching it.

If it was that easy we could just get Goram in to coach the keepers, Gough in to coach the defence, Gazza in to coach the midfielders and McCoist to coach the strikers and we would win the league every season. 

Maybe big Davie is just a shite coach?

Maybe it's out defenders that are just shite players?

Maybe it's both?

Or maybe we are still learning and the pitch geography will come good because they train well.

[William McBeath 2,154]

5 hours ago, sammy cox said:

Perhaps we should bring in a good forward coach and teach our front line how to put the ball in the back of the net.

This

We have only conceded 7 more than the filth but scored around 26 less. We remember the goals against because they lose us matches. Some have been howlers right enough but its obvious that our problems are more at the other end of the pitch. Most of the goals against us came in that crazy derby at the start of the season. For a bunch of cheapskates this lot have done well considering our attacking style. The strikers are a lot more at fault this season. 

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

36 minutes ago, Juniorsparkie said:

Or maybe we are still learning and the pitch geography will come good because they train well.

:P

[toad 320]

Don't really understand the folk who bad mouth Davy Weir's abilities as a coach due to our defensive frailties. Who really knows what his coaching abilities or remit under MW are apart from the staff or someone close to the staff.

I have never heard any of my fellow Bears who has specific insight into his role or coaching capability

Agree we have been poor at the back a bit too frequently for my liking but I feel that we are getting better.

Think the fact that MW & DW have been trying to get a decent and fit CDM in place to offer some cover for our marauding full-backs is often overlooked.

Barton, Rossiter and potentially Crooks were brought in to challenge for the CDM position and that has been a total f*** up with regard to JB and unfortunate that Rossiter who certainly looked the part IMO had been almost constantly injured as has Crooks. 

As other posters have mentioned a key part of our problem is the amount of chances we have wasted, as the ratio of goals scored should be much better

[denya 1,661]

You can only coach so much and at the end of the day you can't walk players by the hand through a game on the pitch, it's up to the player and what they have paid attention to by the coach, their ability and confidence. I don't know exactly what DW does or what he is like as a coach but I am sure he has had a word with the defenders and is constantly giving them info on how to position for certain times etc along with Clint Hill, that's what I feel but at the end of the day it is up to the player. As someone has mentioned earlier it seems we play a sort of zonal marking especially for corners and I don't think our defenders are too confident with that and also lack awareness. The way we are setup also is very hard for the centre halves as it just leaves them very exposed and even more exposed when you don't have a more defensive minded DM and have ball watching full backs.

Considering all those points and the fact it does seem they have limited ability I think they have done fairly well especially since Hill has come in. As others have said our goals against average is nowhere near as bad as the goals scored so up the other end of the park is a big problem not taking chances, I am saying this as then again I am a defender myself.

[sammy cox 664]

9 hours ago, William McBeath said:

This

We have only conceded 7 more than the filth but scored around 26 less. We remember the goals against because they lose us matches. Some have been howlers right enough but its obvious that our problems are more at the other end of the pitch. Most of the goals against us came in that crazy derby at the start of the season. For a bunch of cheapskates this lot have done well considering our attacking style. The strikers are a lot more at fault this season. 

Not getting away from our problems at the back but as you say our finishing up front has been shocking.I read about our defensive frailties and how our midfield is poor but not so much about our piss poor finishing.The game is about scoring more than the opposition and on way to many occasions we have failed to do this all season.MW and Miller have both stated on several occasions that we are not taking our chances yet we worry about defense and our midfield.Our whole front line Waghorn, Garner and Miller have all been guilty of missing good chances all season.While our defense and midfield aren't great our forwards have been shocking at taking the few chances that will come in every game.

[Young Bob 1,360]

9 hours ago, Juniorsparkie said:

Or maybe we are still learning and the pitch geography will come good because they train well.

And what about being brave on the ball?

[Boybluesy 3,734]

13 hours ago, markem said:

Mate regardless of system there is no excuses for our defending at times:

Goal one v Beggars: Wilson tracking a man, leaves him, runs in other direction, jumps into fresh air, free man scores.

Goal two v Beggars: Two defenders (K + T)  with the eventual (and only opponent in box) goal scorer within sight and reach of them both.  Neither pick him up.

Tav was the culprit was standing hand on hips in 6 yard box.  Was his responsibility and should be fined and dropped.

[plumbGER 24,518]

I'd fit an electronic tagging device to Tav so i could zap fuck out of him when he wanders out of position or to wake him up when he needs to mark his man or even be in the space to prevent his man running.

But defence isn't our main issue, creating and scoring chances is.

[VERITAS VOS LIBREBETS 3,331]

The way we lose silly goals at the moment big Davie looks like he has been painting defence.

[Gazza1212 1,212]

22 hours ago, philiprfc said:

 

Agree with both posts, and yes that is somewhere that we really need to brush up on, positioning, especially at set pieces, but in fairness I've thought we've looked better in that area this season (maybe not lately though). I think the way we play though comes into it in the sense that we make loads of mistakes in defence + midfield passing between each other and it ends up putting the defence under unnecessary pressure.

In fairness they've had more than long enough to "brush up" mate. Both kiernan and Wilson are well below the standard of defender required at this club,  as is Tav.

If you're brave enough replay some of the goals we've conceded, it truly is cringe worthy. Also we seem to have abandoned our high pressing game for whatever reason which in turn invites pressure on that same sub standard defence.  It goes without saying I hope I'm wrong but you Watch this Leipzig team press up the pitch on us on Sunday. They can keep it up for 90 minutes too. 

For me that's where the coaching comes in not explaining the importance of positioning and concentration to seasoned pros. That's down to the individual's , all of whom have or should have been in the game long enough to master the basics.