TMB 14,167 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The best thing about a 3-5-2 is being able to throw your CBs forward for set-pieces. If you also have a target man up front as one of your two forwards you have 4 men to attack the ball each time it's thrown in there. It gives you something else to use against teams. I'm a big fan of the formation but you do need at least one CDM and 3 no nonsense CBs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeo7 10,650 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Pointless thread. Murty be like Sid2103 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackunion 536 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Yes completely agree, now all we need is 3 centre backs ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeSS 512 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 For three at the back to work we need a left sided centre back we do not have one so it won’t work also while I agree that we aren’t blessed with the best centre backs at the moment I don’t think they are as bad as most think. I think the biggest problem is the lack of a proper defensive midfielder and our other midfielders failing to track players running off them whilst our centre backs need to be improved I feel that the system that Murty deploys hangs them out to dry ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastcoastloyal 1 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 We need a defence first before we change formation ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid2103 285 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 With the right personal brought in i would like to see this tried out, or at least have it as an option for us. That goes for the manager as well as i can't see Murty doing anything other than his favoured formation any time soon. But with 3 decent CBs it might force the keeper to stay on his line more, solves that problem as well. No harm in trying I suppose, but definitely need an upgrade in players and management before we could attempt it, Martin, Alves and Cardoso would no doubt just run into each other if they were to all play together. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Traive 23,280 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 McCrorie is our best midfield tackler and we need to stop thinking about him as a CB (where he toiled in comparison to his time in the middle) and use him to help screen our defenders. Bates would be fine in a back three, possibly Martin too but a new CB would be needed with Aidan Wilson as cover. Fod Martin - Bates - New CB Tav - McCrorie - Jack/Docherty - John Candieas - Murphy Morelos No place for Dorrans or Cummings or, thankfully, Windass. Better sticking to : Fod Tav - Bates - Martin/new CB - John McCrorie Docherty - Dorrans Murphy Cummings - Morelos Candieas and Jack on the bench Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reformation Bear 6,453 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 To make 3CBs work properly and effectively - and for it to be evident that it is successful - I think 3CBs with both a real talent for defending and plenty of pace would be needed. I don't believe we have 3 CBs who could sufficiently meet those requirements. As much as I like to see us scoring goals - and imo we should be scoring a whole lot more - I also think the absolute fundamental of being able to defend properly and on a consistent basis is essential. Whoever the manager is to be for next season he has a lot of work to do to create a quality defence. Until that is done then seriously realistic title challenges look to be just a distant wish list. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKnight87 17,469 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, Reformation Bear said: To make 3CBs work properly and effectively - and for it to be evident that it is successful - I think 3CBs with both a real talent for defending and plenty of pace would be needed. I don't believe we have 3 CBs who could sufficiently meet those requirements. As much as I like to see us scoring goals - and imo we should be scoring a whole lot more - I also think the absolute fundamental of being able to defend properly and on a consistent basis is essential. Whoever the manager is to be for next season he has a lot of work to do to create a quality defence. Until that is done then seriously realistic title challenges look to be just a distant wish list. Fully agree we don't have the pace or really the quality to go with 3 CB at this time. It's a system I would like to see implemented as we have players in tav and John that can play the wing back role in the system Come the summer fixing our defense has to be the top priority regardless of who's in charge. We have showing we can score goals vs anyone in the league but the defense has consistently let us down this season. Once we have the solid base at the back more wins will follow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cushynumber 25,178 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 i honestly think we should have been doing that for a while and we seem to have players more suited to it. We cant stop a hen going up a close at the moment so at the very least its worth a shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellshill_Bear 1,105 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 11 hours ago, DBBTB said: It’s mentioned a lot on here by a lot of posters but if you watch this video that breaks down how teams play the system it does seem that it would be far better system for us and the players we have at the moment. Always loved the idea of 3 at the back especially with mcrorie being that ball playing defender the boy was made for that role. The problem being alves and Martin will be part of that 3 man defence with no cover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirlingBear72 476 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 It's something I'd like to see us move towards. We'd have 3(5) in midfield at two strikers as well. Difficult formation to play against as well. We'll be stuck with 4-2-3-1 for now sadly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKnight87 17,469 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, StirlingBear72 said: It's something I'd like to see us move towards. We'd have 3(5) in midfield at two strikers as well. Difficult formation to play against as well. We'll be stuck with 4-2-3-1 for now sadly. Unfortunately we will be stuck with 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and we will likely drop more points because of it Murty just won't deviate and the teams we are coming up against know the game plan and how to get the better of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirlingBear72 476 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 24 minutes ago, BlueKnight87 said: Unfortunately we will be stuck with 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and we will likely drop more points because of it Murty just won't deviate and the teams we are coming up against know the game plan and how to get the better of it. De ja vu there. It was the magic hat's downfall too. I'm not a fan of throwing shite at a wall in hope that it sticks. Genuinely baffling we aren't mixing it up. Outnumbered in midfield every week and nothing changes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKnight87 17,469 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, StirlingBear72 said: De ja vu there. It was the magic hat's downfall too. I'm not a fan of throwing shite at a wall in hope that it sticks. Genuinely baffling we aren't mixing it up. Outnumbered in midfield every week and nothing changes. It's so warburton like it's unreal. This is where a proper manager is needed. You can't have a 1 formation for all policy. You need to be able to make changes to counter threats other teams possess. Murty seems unable to do this. I would also be asking why his backroom team aren't pushing for these changed needed either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthranger 3,954 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work. McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc) We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job). Wes Bates McCrorie Martin Tav Dorrans Jack Murphy Candeias Morelos Windass That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Traive 23,280 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 20 minutes ago, plymouthranger said: It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work. McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc) We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job). Wes Bates McCrorie Martin Tav Dorrans Jack Murphy Candeias Morelos Windass That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths! If you’re going with 3-4-3, Id swap John for Murphy, push Murphy forward and put McCrorie in for Dorrans at the base of a flat diamond. He will be a great CB and captain one day but we need him in midfield now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthranger 3,954 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, Colin Traive said: If you’re going with 3-4-3, Id swap John for Murphy, push Murphy forward and put McCrorie in for Dorrans at the base of a flat diamond. He will be a great CB and captain one day but we need him in midfield now. The problem with that is who do you replace McCrorie with at the back? Alves doesn't work in a back 3, because he's too slow and I'm already doubtful that we'd be solid enough with Martin. If you play a 3-4-3 rather than a 3-5-2 with wingbacks, you basically need 2-3 mobile and strong centre backs. We arguably have 1 of those in McCrorie, 1 who could do a job in Bates, and then Martin & Alves who aren't suited for it. You can get away with playing 1 of them, but not both. I'd suggest Cardoso but he can't even defend, so he's arguably just as bad Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausagetrunks 6,102 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 34 minutes ago, plymouthranger said: It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work. McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc) We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job). Wes Bates McCrorie Martin Tav Dorrans Docherty John Candeias Morelos Murphy That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths! that would be mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StirlingBear72 476 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 hour ago, BlueKnight87 said: It's so warburton like it's unreal. This is where a proper manager is needed. You can't have a 1 formation for all policy. You need to be able to make changes to counter threats other teams possess. Murty seems unable to do this. I would also be asking why his backroom team aren't pushing for these changed needed either. Something we'll never know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Traive 23,280 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, plymouthranger said: The problem with that is who do you replace McCrorie with at the back? Alves doesn't work in a back 3, because he's too slow and I'm already doubtful that we'd be solid enough with Martin. If you play a 3-4-3 rather than a 3-5-2 with wingbacks, you basically need 2-3 mobile and strong centre backs. We arguably have 1 of those in McCrorie, 1 who could do a job in Bates, and then Martin & Alves who aren't suited for it. You can get away with playing 1 of them, but not both. I'd suggest Cardoso but he can't even defend, so he's arguably just as bad I’m thinking about next season by which time we should have recruited at least two decent centre backs. Assuming Alves and Cardoso don’t feature, we’ve really only got Bates and Wilson. I still see McCrorie as a ball winner although I’ve no doubt he’ll end up at CB. Alongside him we have Dorrans, Holt, Docherty, Jack, Murphy and Candieas so I don’t think midfield is our priority. Two quality CBs, a Moultesque striker and make the Cummings, Martin and Murphy deals permanent. A good manager and that squad would win the league. plymouthranger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bordersbear 1,105 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 hour ago, plymouthranger said: It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work. McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc) We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job). Wes Bates McCrorie Martin Tav Dorrans Jack Murphy Candeias Morelos Windass That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths! Sure you're not just wasted? Like me. plymouthranger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer93 15,137 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 With the current squad available I would try RMc in the centre,RM on the right and BA as the left....my major gripe is we don't have a balance especially at home, teams play 1 up against a 4 which sometimes leaves us short in the middle of the park...this should never be an issue with a back 3 against 1 up top Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bordersbear 1,105 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I would go with a 1 10 formation because most of them run about like headless chickens anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reformation Bear 6,453 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 3 hours ago, cushynumber said: i honestly think we should have been doing that for a while and we seem to have players more suited to it. We cant stop a hen going up a close at the moment so at the very least its worth a shot. Which permutation of 3 out Alves, Martin, Bates, McCrorie and Cardoso do you think have enough defensive quality and enough pace to make a 3 CB formation an outstanding success for Rangers? I'm interested to know if you think we have 3 with enough quality and pace about them for this to work. Alves is 36 and Martin 32 and their pace nowadays is not, imo, one of their remaining assets. McCrorie, Bates and Cardoso are all between 20 and 24 so not much improvement in their quality of pace can be expected imo, Cardoso rarely gets a game these days, Bates is injured out for the rest of the season it seems and McCrorie had mended to the point where he can be considered for first team action again. Which 3 would you pick for the rest of this season, and who would you see starting in a 3 CB formation next season? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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