Our Youth System

[BlueVanguard 6,695]

1 hour ago, Parlaneloyal said:

Gilmore was superb last night

Have we no connection with him now ? (Sell on clause) 

Pretty sure he left on a development fee to Chelsea so if they sell him on we are entitled to something. Think its around the 5-25% mark

Fuck Knows 🤣
 

[Don81 2,842]

I was under the impression that a few in the colts team were on the brink of making it into the team King , Kennedy , Patterson and Mebude spring to mind. The McCrorie brothers as well. 

We did have to pretty much start again with the youths when King and co came into the club so your probably looking at a few years before you can really judge if the present board have got it right at this level. It has definitely under performed over the years , can only think of Barry and McGregor that have really came through and made themselves mainstays in the last 20 odd years.

[MoodyBlue1872 3,078]

14 minutes ago, dougal72 said:

I was under the impression that a few in the colts team were on the brink of making it into the team King , Kennedy , Patterson and Mebude spring to mind. The McCrorie brothers as well. 

We did have to pretty much start again with the youths when King and co came into the club so your probably looking at a few years before you can really judge if the present board have got it right at this level. It has definitely under performed over the years , can only think of Barry and McGregor that have really came through and made themselves mainstays in the last 20 odd years.

We hear this year after year and have done for the last 20-30 years. There is always a "promising" youngster or two. But they just fade away. Time and time again. If we had a penny for every time there was a "cracking player with  potential" or "this boy is going to be a star" 

It will ba a major rarity if one of them makes it with us by becoming a genuine first team regular. 

I'm not holding my breath. 

We are kidding ourselves on with our youth system and have been for decades. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,604]

2 minutes ago, MoodyBlue1872 said:

We hear this year after year and have done for the last 20-30 years. There is always a "promising" youngster or two. But they just fade away. Time and time again. If we had a penny for every time there was a "cracking player with  potential" or "this boy is going to be a star" 

It will ba a major rarity if one of them makes it with us by becoming a genuine first team regular. 

I'm not holding my breath. 

We are kidding ourselves on with our youth system and have been for decades. 

I think we need to establish a difference in what the youth system brings and what we are looking for

Everyone wants another Ferguson, someone who is European class, noticed by big teams etc, but the setup is not built for that solely, its there to provide us with guys that will be good enough domestically, and we have had a fair few over the years

Fergie, shagger, malcolm, ross, hutton, mccormack, burke, moore, little, fleck, adam, gilmour, Kelly, wylde

And im sure theres more i just havent remembered, all these guys were good enough to win in scottish football, some cases in europe too

Id say to get a proper report on the youth system you'd need to pick specific timeframes, walters first stint is a no no because Murray spent a fortune, walter barely used the youngsters then flogged them (tried to sell fergie for a couple hundred grand lol) 

Advocaat while playing fergie and moore was the same, you cant really use that era

Eck had to use them, and he did, so his timeframe is valid

PLG did, he used them, again his time frame is valid 

Walters second stint? Hard one, while we were skint at the end of it, he spent a fortune on the team at the start, so probably still a hard ons to judge the youths given how walter built his team, so imo id discount that 

Ally post admin, hard one, we should use it, but the clown never once tried it, playing a 35yo brazilian centre half instead of our most promising 18yo was diagusting, imo his era should be discounted

Warburton upwards it was pretty much started again by sounds of things

So, again imo only, in the last 30 years we have a 6 year window where our youths got a proper look in within scottish football, and what we got then was actually a decent amount of them, maybe not money makers in the transfer sense, but they helped us win leagues, cups and get to europe for the big bucks, so it can be argued it has been a success when required 

[NorthernLights 2,526]

I don’t think that anybody is saying Patterson and Kennedy should be starting every game but with the season over there’s no reason they shouldn’t be getting 10 minutes here and there. Will they be less physical than their opponents? Probably. But you get more physical and get used to it by playing. 

Unfortunately that’s one of the big differences between us and them. They’ve got a Forrest, McGregor and Johnston atm as key parts of their squad. Previously they had Tierney. Best we’ve had in that time has probably been McCrorie. Before that? Maybe Barrie McKay?

I know we can’t throw in players who clearly aren’t good enough but this is the time to see if they are. 

[MoodyBlue1872 3,078]

53 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

I think we need to establish a difference in what the youth system brings and what we are looking for

Everyone wants another Ferguson, someone who is European class, noticed by big teams etc, but the setup is not built for that solely, its there to provide us with guys that will be good enough domestically, and we have had a fair few over the years

Fergie, shagger, malcolm, ross, hutton, mccormack, burke, moore, little, fleck, adam, gilmour, Kelly, wylde

And im sure theres more i just havent remembered, all these guys were good enough to win in scottish football, some cases in europe too

Id say to get a proper report on the youth system you'd need to pick specific timeframes, walters first stint is a no no because Murray spent a fortune, walter barely used the youngsters then flogged them (tried to sell fergie for a couple hundred grand lol) 

Advocaat while playing fergie and moore was the same, you cant really use that era

Eck had to use them, and he did, so his timeframe is valid

PLG did, he used them, again his time frame is valid 

Walters second stint? Hard one, while we were skint at the end of it, he spent a fortune on the team at the start, so probably still a hard ons to judge the youths given how walter built his team, so imo id discount that 

Ally post admin, hard one, we should use it, but the clown never once tried it, playing a 35yo brazilian centre half instead of our most promising 18yo was diagusting, imo his era should be discounted

Warburton upwards it was pretty much started again by sounds of things

So, again imo only, in the last 30 years we have a 6 year window where our youths got a proper look in within scottish football, and what we got then was actually a decent amount of them, maybe not money makers in the transfer sense, but they helped us win leagues, cups and get to europe for the big bucks, so it can be argued it has been a success when required 

A well reasoned and well constructed post mate. 

But for me it simply comes down to - if we closed it down tomorrow, would we really miss it? And the answer for me is probably not. I'd love to proved wrong one day but I see nothing  to suggest it will really take off and produce genuine first team players he long us win trophies. And that's what our bottom line is. 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,604]

17 minutes ago, MoodyBlue1872 said:

A well reasoned and well constructed post mate. 

But for me it simply comes down to - if we closed it down tomorrow, would we really miss it? And the answer for me is probably not. I'd love to proved wrong one day but I see nothing  to suggest it will really take off and produce genuine first team players he long us win trophies. And that's what our bottom line is. 

Right now with the urgent need to win domestic honours, nah we probably dont, however in the grand scheme of things i doubt it costs that much

Once we're back winning at least 1 trophy a year, maybe the odd CL group stage appearance, yeah we'll need it to supplement the squad due to homegrown talent requirements etc

[j1mgg 3,766]

These youngsters aren't going to come on in development until they start getting run outs in the first team, playing with better players, and with the pressure expected at this club.

Loaning them out to first and second division teams just isn't working.

[NeoGeo7 10,557]

I think people are being a bit harsh on both the youths themselves and Gerrard.

Gerrard is here to regain the title and win silverware and if he can use youth to do that he will but we are an expectant then support and he knows it. He has to deliver results and obviously playing youth players seems too risky to him. Perhaps recent games will have changed his mind but one of the things we have said is that are players are often too powderpuff so what exactly happens when you put in an 18/19 year old who hasn’t fully developed physically?

As for the youths they won the Alkass cup last year and have been doing very well against some cracking opposition. Kai Kennedy was being tracked by Roma and a couple of other teams as far as I recall and Leon King has also been tracked by some big teams in England.

Its far better than it was with a lot of emphasis on developing them however I do feel that in order to get something to “click” we need to get them minutes in the first team. It also shows them that they can get to the first team here since if they think they are going to be playing youth games you may as well do that at Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd etc. than here as they will pay more and have great facilities as well.

If Gerrard played McPake, Kennedy and Patterson  tonight and we lost 1-0 how woeful did that go down with the majority of the support? How would that affect those three youngsters? Ultimately this is why it’s so hard to bring youth players through here unless you have to play them or we are sure they are the real deal and play 1 with 10 seniors alongside to help them through it as we did against Stranraer with Patterson.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,604]

4 minutes ago, j1mgg said:

These youngsters aren't going to come on in development until they start getting run outs in the first team, playing with better players, and with the pressure expected at this club.

Loaning them out to first and second division teams just isn't working.

Loaning them out is supposed to get them used to the physicality of the game in an environment that isnt as pressured 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,604]

4 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

I think people are being a bit harsh on both the youths themselves and Gerrard.

Gerrard is here to regain the title and win silverware and if he can use youth to do that he will but we are an expectant then support and he knows it. He has to deliver results and obviously playing youth players seems too risky to him. Perhaps recent games will have changed his mind but one of the things we have said is that are players are often too powderpuff so what exactly happens when you put in an 18/19 year old who hasn’t fully developed physically?

As for the youths they won the Alkass cup last year and have been doing very well against some cracking opposition. Kai Kennedy was being tracked by Roma and a couple of other teams as far as I recall and Leon King has also been tracked by some big teams in England.

Its far better than it was with a lot of emphasis on developing them however I do feel that in order to get something to “click” we need to get them minutes in the first team. It also shows them that they can get to the first team here since if they think they are going to be playing youth games you may as well do that at Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd etc. than here as they will pay more and have great facilities as well.

If Gerrard played McPake, Kennedy and Patterson  tonight and we lost 1-0 how woeful did that go down with the majority of the support? How would that affect those three youngsters? Ultimately this is why it’s so hard to bring youth players through here unless you have to play them or we are sure they are the real deal and play 1 with 10 seniors alongside to help them through it as we did against Stranraer with Patterson.

Even the Stranraer game was a red herring as many on here argued, they didnt even try get out their half, there was no pressure on patterson 

The rest i agree with, thats why i said above that basing our youth report on the full last two decades or whatever isnt right as some of they managers had either money to spend or had the need to win things, either doesnt bode well for youth

[Smile 26,610]

13 hours ago, bennyali said:

At this rate, Gerrard is gonna have a poster of Billy Gilmour on his wall

I'm sick of hearing about him now.