Euro 2024

[Roy Hobbs 2,996]

Just now, ForeverAndEver said:

Managed 3 losses whilst Ireland got a win and a draw though.

It was a very different tournament back then though. You had 3 games against teams that topped qualifying. A bad start and you're under massive pressure. The two teams that went through played the final. 

It clearly wasn't a great tournament for them but it was much tougher than today's standards. I don't think Scotland had ever qualified for a finals at that time.

[ForeverAndEver 73,981]

7 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

It was a very different tournament back then though. You had 3 games against teams that topped qualifying. A bad start and you're under massive pressure. The two teams that went through played the final. 

It clearly wasn't a great tournament for them but it was much tougher than today's standards. I don't think Scotland had ever qualified for a finals at that time.

Failed to qualify for 84, and pointless at 88. Yes it was tougher, I don’t disagree, still fail to see how that makes him a better manager for England though. Bearing in mind their WC placements are the same as well.

[Roy Hobbs 2,996]

1 minute ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Failed to qualify for 84, and pointless at 88. Yes it was tougher, I don’t disagree, still fail to see how that makes him a better manager for England though. Bearing in mind their WC placements are the same as well.

I didn't say otherwise, just that the euros was a far tougher competition back then. France won 84 with an incredible team and then failed to qualify for 88.

[AGM_72 4,070]

12 hours ago, McEwan's Lager said:

He's widely regarded to have at least got all the players under his command pulling in the same direction, which nearly every England manager of the last 30 odd years has failed to do.

I don't think Southgate is a great manager, or the right guy to lead them to glory this summer but I do think people forget how broken England were before he took over after Big Sam's short tenure.

Fans didn't have much connection with the team and internally they weren't pulling in the same direction, as you highlighted. WC 2018 changed that, there was that Atomic Kitten song that was adapted to celebrate him. I don't think it was until after the failure in the final of the Euros that people have really turned against him. Leading into WC 2022, picking familiar faces - it's all got a bit stale.

There's some similarities to Steve Clarke in a way. Obviously not in terms of results etc, but more in the way they rejuvenated dysfunctional sides and have probably taken them as far as they can.

[PromDeAnglais 6,821]

Looking forward to France Belgium later on, great game to round up the work day. 

 

[McEwan's Lager 32,079]

3 minutes ago, AGM_72 said:

I don't think Southgate is a great manager, or the right guy to lead them to glory this summer but I do think people forget how broken England were before he took over after Big Sam's short tenure.

Fans didn't have much connection with the team and internally they weren't pulling in the same direction, as you highlighted. WC 2018 changed that, there was that Atomic Kitten song that was adapted to celebrate him. I don't think it was until after the failure in the final of the Euros that people have really turned against him. Leading into WC 2022, picking familiar faces - it's all got a bit stale.

There's some similarities to Steve Clarke in a way. Obviously not in terms of results etc, but more in the way they rejuvenated dysfunctional sides and have probably taken them as far as they can.

He got criticised for picking players he relied on regardless of form but he acquiesced to that for this Euros and left the likes of Rashford, Grealish and Maddison at home who have had poor seasons and now he’s getting criticised for not taking them 

 

[dummiesoot 16,278]

1 hour ago, ForeverAndEver said:

Bobby Robson wasn’t even good enough to get out a group stage in the Euros.

Still a better manager than Southgate 

[ForeverAndEver 73,981]

2 minutes ago, dummiesoot said:

Still a better manager than Southgate 

Overall, absolutely. For England, disagree.

[bluenoz 32,539]

Southgate is blessed with some incredible talent atm. He hasn't gotten the best out of them at this tournament. Saka, Foden, and even Bellingham have all underperformed and that's on Southgate with the way he sets up. Eze and Palmer should have more minutes played.

They have made it to the QF and will fancy themselves against a good Swiss team, but sometimes the stats don't tell the whole story. They have been a tad fortunate in this tournament.

[Somemightsay7 3,104]

10 minutes ago, bluenoz said:

Southgate is blessed with some incredible talent atm. He hasn't gotten the best out of them at this tournament. Saka, Foden, and even Bellingham have all underperformed and that's on Southgate with the way he sets up. Eze and Palmer should have more minutes played.

They have made it to the QF and will fancy themselves against a good Swiss team, but sometimes the stats don't tell the whole story. They have been a tad fortunate in this tournament.

Germany dropped Writz in their last game, who has been the best German player over the last 12 months, because they didn't think it was working within their system.

Spain have played Cucurella over the likes of Grimaldo, who has had a far, far better season, because he's a better fit for their system.

That's the type of decisions Southgate has to be making. Stop trying to force people into the team because of their name and play people who work within the system you want to play.

 

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,286]

If Hoddle wasn’t mental they might have won something under him.

Probably the last time they intentionally played exciting attacking football.

He wouldn’t have had Scholes at left midfield either.

[Laudrupsleftfoot 12,286]

3 hours ago, novosleftboot said:

Any success England has had recently has been despite Southgate, not because of him.

In fairness the club team like spirit England seem to have is largely down to him.

Agreed it’s not because of his tactical nous.

[McEwan's Lager 32,079]

55 minutes ago, Somemightsay7 said:

Germany dropped Writz in their last game, who has been the best German player over the last 12 months, because they didn't think it was working within their system.

Spain have played Cucurella over the likes of Grimaldo, who has had a far, far better season, because he's a better fit for their system.

That's the type of decisions Southgate has to be making. Stop trying to force people into the team because of their name and play people who work within the system you want to play.

 

Southgate did that at the last World Cup and got a ton of criticism for not playing Foden in the group stages early on.

Now people can’t agree whether Foden or Bellingham should be the one to be dropped. If he takes one out and they lose then he’ll get criticised for that.

He’s on a hiding to nothing tbh.

[Somemightsay7 3,104]

3 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

Southgate did that at the last World Cup and got a ton of criticism for not playing Foden in the group stages early on.

Now people can’t agree whether Foden or Bellingham should be the one to be dropped. If he takes one out and they lose then he’ll get criticised for that.

He’s on a hiding to nothing tbh.

They scored 9 goals in the group stages of the world cup then won 3-0 against Senegal in the last 16 so it obviously worked.

He should stop worrying about what the media is going to say and focus on winning games.

Fans and media could not care less who plays as long as they are performing and winning. If he is making decisions on what he thinks is going to get him the least backlash he is an even worse manager than I thought.

 

[JackAlex93 12,716]

2 hours ago, PromDeAnglais said:

Looking forward to France Belgium later on, great game to round up the work day. 

 

Hope it lives up to the billing mate

[ForeverAndEver 73,981]

Not sure why anybody is expecting anything other than the France game being shite

[McEwan's Lager 32,079]

24 minutes ago, Laudrupsleftfoot said:

If Hoddle wasn’t mental they might have won something under him.

Probably the last time they intentionally played exciting attacking football.

He wouldn’t have had Scholes at left midfield either.

Doubt it.

England were very unconvincing in qualifying for the 98 World Cup and then were poor in qualifying for the Euros under him. I think he was sacked when England had yet to win a qualifying game.

Don’t think he had the players in 1998 or 2000 (as Keegan did) to win anything. 

 

[McEwan's Lager 32,079]

11 minutes ago, Somemightsay7 said:

They scored 9 goals in the group stages of the world cup then won 3-0 against Senegal in the last 16 so it obviously worked.

He should stop worrying about what the media is going to say and focus on winning games.

Fans and media could not care less who plays as long as they are performing and winning. If he is making decisions on what he thinks is going to get him the least backlash he is an even worse manager than I thought.

 

I think Foden came into the team for the last group game and then Senegal. I could be wrong.

[ForeverAndEver 73,981]

5 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

I think Foden came into the team for the last group game and then Senegal. I could be wrong.

He did, played those two and France

[McEwan's Lager 32,079]

Sven was the biggest failure I think as an England manager.

Had the best generation England has ever produced and failed to get Ferdinand, Gerrard, Gary Neville and Terry to leave their club egos at the door and get them playing for each other.

I think I've made this point on here before but the likes of Ramos and Pique would be violently kicking the shit out of each other at club level, guys like Pique and Xavi don't even fucking want to be Spanish, yet del Bosque managed to massage that all out the team and get them winning tournaments.

 

 

[G.E.C. 19,594]

12 minutes ago, McEwan's Lager said:

Sven was the biggest failure I think as an England manager.

Had the best generation England has ever produced and failed to get Ferdinand, Gerrard, Gary Neville and Terry to leave their club egos at the door and get them playing for each other.

I think I've made this point on here before but the likes of Ramos and Pique would be violently kicking the shit out of each other at club level, guys like Pique and Xavi don't even fucking want to be Spanish, yet del Bosque managed to massage that all out the team and get them winning tournaments.

 

 

Am I right thinking that Man Utd and Liverpool players refused to sit at the same table?

[The Specky Forum Organiser 69,663]

Was definitely a bad thing for the national side but those players all being like that definitely helped the EPL be a better league I think.

[ForeverAndEver 73,981]

7 minutes ago, The Specky Forum Organiser said:

Was definitely a bad thing for the national side but those players all being like that definitely helped the EPL be a better league I think.

100%. Think that’s the biggest miss in the PL these days, teams actually hating each other.

[JamieD 20,058]

1 hour ago, McEwan's Lager said:

Sven was the biggest failure I think as an England manager.

Had the best generation England has ever produced and failed to get Ferdinand, Gerrard, Gary Neville and Terry to leave their club egos at the door and get them playing for each other.

I think I've made this point on here before but the likes of Ramos and Pique would be violently kicking the shit out of each other at club level, guys like Pique and Xavi don't even fucking want to be Spanish, yet del Bosque managed to massage that all out the team and get them winning tournaments.

 

 

I seem to remember Ramos getting a late straight red for violent conduct in the first Clasico back after winning the World Cup with half of the Barca team

[Moody Blue Legend 63,477]

Allardyce has a 100% record as England manager.