Reformation Bear
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The cup runs are more indicators of an abject inability to create what many might say should be a traditional Rangers team; with the result being evidence of continued gradual decline in ability to win any sort of major trophy whatsoever. Last trophy was in 2010/11. A few so-called provincial clubs have managed to win cups in the period since we last won one.
All this means is more and more pressure is heaped on the team, the manager (and yes) the Board next season and so on right through to the 150 anniversary season. If no major trophy is won during or before 150 then a status of modern day permanent also rans will be complete. If we got to that disgraceful place I very much doubt if Gerrard would still be the manager at the time (he'd be out before his reputation was damaged beyond repair) and imo the Board would also be out as they'd have demonstrated conclusively that they were just not up creating the right financial and other circumstances for a trophy-winning Rangers team to be fielded.
Then it would be more downhill as the Club trims its financial cloth to shift its ambition away from trying unsuccessfully to be a modern day major football club and into the realms of how lesser provincial clubs operate. DoFs and large backroom staffs and so on would be bound to be cut back or fired as they'd be unaffordable in the face of continued lack of football success. They'd be classed as having failed the Club as despite their efforts it did not prove to be enough by way of producing players that go on to become trophy winning first team players.
The longer this goes without winning a major trophy - preferably the league title - the more the pressure will build leading up to 150th anniversary. Pressure to win which no manager and no player (and no Board) would be able to deal with. Some very tough times lie ahead unless Gerrard is backed by the Board with sufficient transfer funds and can then somehow get enough quality players to deliver the sort of winning consistency that makes league titles and cup wins possible.
We'll see soon enough what next season brings.
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16 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:
He will be in those circumstances, but he won't be alone and we will go into such a belt tightening exercise making the top six will be a bonus.
Seems to me at present this is less likely if there is a failure to win a trophy next season, but if that trophy-less state continued into the 150th anniversary season then that sort of belt tightening would seem to me to be inevitable after then.
But...…..if it looked like we'd be heading towards or into the 150th year in a patently weak state not having won a trophy since 2010/11 and not sufficiently close in challenging for the league title then it would surprise me if King and most / all of his Board backed out before then. The shame and embarrassment would be too much and they'd have proved to themselves and to us their best efforts were not enough. After then, after belt tightening bites meaningfully, the Club would have completed a transition into near perpetual state of being also rans. That's not an outcome I'd want to see. To avoid it will take enough transfer money for the manager to use wisely and a Board that finds a way to roll up its sleeves and redouble the efforts to bring far more investment money into the Club.
Imagine the pressure on whoever is Manager and whoever are in the first team squad at the time of the 150th anniversary season if no trophies had been won since 2010/11. Not many credible takers for the manager job at that time, and probably not many players ready, able and willing to deal with the pressure in that season.
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43 minutes ago, DBBTB said:
Agreed. We have to back somebody for the medium term at some point and I think it should be Gerrard. He has things to learn and we have to improve in terms of our recruitment but if we can do that I think we will be a better side next season. I’m watching the Norwich game at the moment and they are a great example of how sometimes a manager can need a season or so under their belt before improvements become habit rather than something that is only seen in fits and spurts.
What would you define as medium term (ie as per the text I've made bold in your post)? And would that include backing SG even if he does not lead us to winning a trophy next season?
We have the 150th anniversary on the near horizon in 2022 so surely we have already arrived at a time when SG needs to be backed right through to that anniversary season (if his contract lasts until then) in the hope that trophies can be won, especially in that season. Even if he is out of contract before then surely he needs to be backed for as long as it takes before 2022 to develop a trophy winning side so that we do not go into that season not having won a trophy since 2010/11. If SG is removed how would the Club ever realistically hope to attract a quality manager who could inspire trophy success before and in 2022?
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Talk about replacing Gerrard implies (1) he would be sacked by the Club, (2) he resigns (just quits full stop), or (3) another club makes an offer to obtain his services and Rangers and Gerrard accept the offer. I don't think (1) is even remotely on the horizon. I don't think (2) is likely. (3) might be a possibility. It's inevitable that clubs in the top 2 leagues in England will go through the summer ritual of sacking managers and looking for replacements and I suppose its possible a club might feel it could tempt Gerrard away from Rangers. We'd presumably get a handsome fee for such a transfer. Cash but yet again no manager. That risk exists at all times though so its not new.
As to who could replace him, we've seen only too recently an extensive recruitment search. There was massive speculation about names. Most of them might be possible candidates again. But if we get to that situation because SG is sacked then imo we truly will have become an absolute circus of a club with little to no chance of attracting any manager who would quickly transform our fortunes into a trophy winning club again.
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A seemingly quiet day in the Rangers PR machine today? Only a fan-zone article and update on loan review in the Rangers website, and nothing at all on Twitty-thingy since they posted the Defoe interview around 18hrs ago. Maybe they are all having an away day or something trying to muster strength to go again by consuming lots of coffee and cakes. Or maybe they're galvanised by the Brexit happenings (non-happenings).
Clearly a day for keeping a low profile with minimal news. Ah well tomorrow is another day as the saying goes and maybe the Club will find some things to say / report.
- Bears r us and HG5
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The Club has gone for a DoF approach and appointed Allen. A revamp of the scouting system has (I think) also taken place which has bolstered scouting capacity (if not capability). The tiers of organisational structure below the first team squad also seem to me to have undergone changes, new recruits, investment and so on over the last couple of years.
Some might say all well and good and travelling in the direction a modern ambitious football club needs to pursue these days. Some might argue otherwise.
It will be interesting (best word I could find for now) to see how long all of this fancy modern way of working lasts before the axe starts to fall. The issue being how long will a Board be prepared to plough money into those bits of the Rangers football machine and infrastructure if the Club is not winning any trophies and generating enough wealth as a result of the first team being successful on the pitch?
Its arguably a very big overhead to be carrying if there is no (or insufficient) end product in the form of a successful first team which in turn generates wealth because of its success. Right now a lot of investment seems to have gone into the more 'back office' types of functions at Ibrox but is it yielding (or about to yield) enough of a dividend in terms of trophy-success and income generation from success? The short answer is - no trophies, no success and maybe some money to be generated in summer if we can sell Morelos for a decent fee.
Are the costs of Allen and the infrastructure / personnel that support the behind the scenes activities at Ibrox justified by on-pitch success? It seems to me its only a matter of time before a Board has to balance the cost against thus far invisible value generated by football success.
If lack of success continues then it surely becomes inevitable that the financial cloth has to be cut to fit the circumstances of becoming a perpetual also-ran football club whose realistic aspirations of winning a trophy are not much better than those of provincial clubs.
That's the charge the Board will have to face sooner or later if lack of football success goes on for too many more seasons. Maybe they are prepared to continue with the bet up to and including 150th anniversary and if no trophies (esp the league) won by the end of that season then the game is up on trying to restore to being a big successful club...…. because the evidence otherwise will be before them in the lack of trophies won since season 2010/11.
- HG5 and RJMcGregor
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I see that Defoe has also done a post match interview. Wonder who decided it should be Defoe that stands in front of the camera to offer a view. Couldn't have been SG as he said he hadn't gone into the dressing room as he was too angry. And why Defoe, a loan player? Why not the captain - taking some personal responsibility to reflect the mood of the dressing room?
Note the number of times Defoe says the important thing is to 'stick together'. Maybe its just a case of the obvious thing to say but he sure does shuffle about a fair bit in that interview - his body language screams out that he's not comfortable and is a bit wary of being drawn into saying too much beyond general stock football sayings.
He acknowledges there was (understandably) an atmosphere in the dressing room. Probably (I suppose) intensified with SG deciding not to put in an appearance. Maybe by 'atmosphere' he includes words exchanged or maybe some player finger-pointing. Who knows. No doubt ranks will be closed and things move on to the next press conference where SG and whichever player draws the short straw pitch up to somehow try to talk up the virtually meaningless next league game.
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Borrowed Coulibaly's boots. Wore them well against Aberdeen. They are helping him find a level of mediocrity that passes for acceptable that many new players find after signing for Rangers. Expect more of the same now that he has settled in.
In general in life you get what you pay for. Bargains that turn out to be absolute gems are a rarer than rocking-horse shit.
We'll see over the course of the remainder of this failed season if he is any good under the pressure of playing in a Rangers side which is empty of the possibility of success but where the Support still has high expectations of seeing a proper Rangers side playing with heart and soul for the privilege of wearing the shirt.
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Loan player. If SG / DoF are not convinced its worth trying to keep him for next season (extended loan or buy) or if its not affordable to try to keep him for next season then early holiday for him and a train ticket back to Liverpool with a 'thank you and best wishes for the future' note in his jacket pocket.
Point being that games for the rest of this season need to be used to bring players on who are on the Rangers books and test to see if they are likely to be up to delivering to the required standard. If nothing else to give them more first team experience and to be more 'ready' for first team action.
We have Jones joining in summer so will need to wait for his arrival. Presumably Murphy will have recovered sufficiently for next season and maybe for a few games at the shitty tail-end of this season. Plus Middleton. Plus any winger-talent from the development squad that might be worth trying? Whether any of them can turn out to be more effective than Kent is anyone's guess but for now surely its now worth starting to give others at the club some game time in the last dregs of this faltering season.
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It's about next season now. Worrall can be released for an early holiday since he's a loan player anyway and its time for Katic to be reinstated. If Katic really isn't good enough then the remaining games for this season will be the measuring stick and if that turns out to be the case then SG has a problem to solve in finding a replacement. In the meantime there is no point making Worrall a first choice CB pick for the rest of this season.
- Blue Avenger and Gman36
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He'll be gone in summer and the Club will have whatever transfer fee is agreed for him. He'll possibly ease back a bit for the rest of the season to avoid risk of serious injury ahead of a transfer, and Rangers might want that anyway so as to make sure the Club capitalises on the player.
SG might as well start using the remaining games to see if any of the development team strikers might have it in them to make the leap into the first team for next season.
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He hasn't got it to play at Rangers level. Doesn't score enough goals. Doesn't play well enough on a consistent basis. When his name is listed on the team sheet its more a case of shrug shoulders sort of 'ok then'. It certainly does not produce an immediate lift of looking forward to seeing a player of real quality. Average to poor at best. Another one happy to take the Rangers salary but nowhere near demonstrating that he's earning it. A player who is failing to deliver the quality needed and that continued failing is turning him into an outright failure. He's not good enough for Rangers' needs if the Rangers Board's aim is to start winning trophies.
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He's at the top of his very own self imposed ability level. He's not going to improve from there. Good enough for Aberdeen but the responsibility at Rangers is too much for him and he's not able or willing to lift his game on a consistent enough basis for Rangers' needs.
Like so many players who manage to win a transfer to Rangers they settle into accepting the higher wages in return for the occasional half decent performance and use the Club as a means of improving their bank balance for a while. Then they are found out and exit. And in a lot of cases over recent seasons they disappear into football obscurity while drawing on the illusion of having been good enough to play for Rangers. More the fool the Rangers scouting system and Board for thinking such players were good enough in the first case.
A one-game wonder.
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Those who win cups and leagues celebrate those wins and point to the end product of a trophy.
Those who don't win cups and leagues point to the journey they have travelled and the degree of progress made (measured by all sorts of statistics). The comfort of making some improvement being important.
There are 3 major trophies to be won in Scottish football. We won none of them last season. We're winning none of them this season. Its season 2010/11since we last won a major trophy. That for me is a real lack of progress (even allowing for the years in lower divisions where there were still cup trophies available to be won).
I much prefer measuring progress by the achievement of outcomes. The outcomes being simply - winning the league title, winning the SC, winning the League Cup. In seasons when winning one of these is not happening then measures of progress in other areas is a secondary matter.
Does the Board want to win trophies next season? If the answer is 'yes' then they need to find enough money for SG and the DOF to obtain a few more very much better players who can lift the squad from also ran triers into winners.
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I can understand why he chose not to go into the dressing room because he was so angry. In that white heat of anger things can be said or done either by the Manager or by some of the players that can get out of control and lead to far more difficult problems. It can be better to let the players stew in their own juice, have their sleepless night, reflect (yet again) on their own individually poor performances …….. and get into the training centre today knowing that they are going to face a still-angry manager but one who has had the same time to channel his anger into specifics rather than ranting for the sake of it and randomly in a dressing room. Besides which SG will have had the benefit of views from his coaching team so that when he confronts the players its a far more channelled and probably more effective approach he takes. That's the way I see it anyway.
There is another aspect to this. His anger may in part - maybe in large part - anger with himself. He's placed more trust in some players than in others and said as much in various interviews. They have let him down on a consistent basis. He has tried time and again to set a team up and to prepare a team for a game only to see in far too many games the set up and planning coming unstuck with points dropped or games lost …… and not just against the tougher teams either. He may be finding it very frustrating that he sees how we wants things to be done but has not yet got the managerial experience or the quality of player needed to deliver the results we all need to see.
His own ability to motivate the team before a game and during a game and to make in-play tactical adjustments is not well enough developed yet. The oft-repeated post-match frustrations about the team are evidence of this. I'm sure he will learn and we will benefit from this in due course. But going with it is a need for more players who really do 'get it' and who will respond to the managerial helm and respond to the weight of responsibility as a Rangers player by producing consistent winning runs and cup victories.
For King and the Board the question will be how much time are they prepared to give SG to produce a side where the post-match talk is not of excuses but of celebrating winning a cup and / or a league title. How many more seasons is the Board prepared to go without winning a trophy? How many more seasons can they afford for that to happen? And there lies part of the solution...…...money. What is the Board going to do to generate a whole lot more money to be made available to obtain enough players for key positions of far better quality that enable SG to have full confidence that they will go out onto the pitch and deliver results as Rangers teams should be delivering.
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It can be assumed then that he is man enough to go knock on an angry Manager's door and repeat his complaint in the same words and same tone direct to the Manager. And they can both take it from there. If he's not man enough to do that then that's his look out. Spouting angrily in public and hoping that the message is brought to the Manager's attention is one way of doing business but he might then expect a very robust reaction from the Manager and possibly the DOF. Better if he had said what he felt he needed to say in private to SG and not use a public event to vent his frustration. Different of course if he had already said his piece in the same way and same tone to SG beforehand as at tleas then he'd have had the balls to front up to the manager, but did he do that?
Also begs a question - rightly or wrongly - as to whether SG is losing some of the dressing room if a player feels the need to have a go at the manager behind his back.
- delparlane, tannerall, Jonok and 2 others
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When nothing so far is being won trophy-wise this season or last season or (in terms of major trophies) since season 2010/11 then its useful in many ways to take stock of whether improvement (results / performances / league position / run in Europe / money generated) is being achieved. It'd it maybe be a bit hard to say that no progress or very little progress is being made. I think we have made progress, and good progress at that.
At one level we could stop there and take a bit of comfort that progress is being made. And more comfort that we expect more progress next season as SG gets more into his managerial stride and (hopefully) with some additional good quality players to be added in summer who improve the squad. And then this time next season take stock again to see if more progress has been made. And so on until one season that progressive march leads to a league title or winning a cup final.
I suppose the Chairman, the Board, the DOF and the Manager (and the coaching staff), all have various measures they use to determine what progress has been made. It'd be interesting to hear their views on that. For me though the comparison is outcome not the journey ie trophies won. We haven't won a major trophy since season 2010/11. Surely next season the comparison benchmark must be to win at least one of the 3 major competitions. As interesting as measuring progress is it'd be good to be saying that the progress has resulted in a trophy or trophies actually won, and not the 'what might have been' games or circumstances. There comes a point where the progress journey needs to reach tangible outcome in the form of trophies won. Soon.
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Too many who are all out of the ticky tacky football box and who all play the same. When enough chemistry exists in a game to make them hot then they become collectively hot and often unplayable, but when the circumstances of a game dampen or they allow it to dampen down they collectively go cold, visibly weaken, become prone to error and adopt the behaviour of undisguised panic..... and drop points.
A few players are needed who retain composure and fight, and some who just simply inspire - who back their own ability, grab the opportunity and are not gripped by fear of failure or criticism. It'd be a hard job these days finding such players that wear the Rangers jersey with the sort of pride, skill and winning ability we all want to see.
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37 minutes ago, gogzy said:
Goldson, Shagger, Tav, Candias, Morelos, Jack, Kamara, ,( played every minute since signing IIRC), ArfieldHe seems to trust Worral which is debatable if he is actually trustworthy, fair argument that he is currently the 2nd best CB we have. He is going back in the summer anyway.
IMO the team doesn't need that much tinkering. If we can bring in people of better quality than we have that would be great, but those listed above are the best players in the team, Kent is probably going to be out of our price range.
Interesting. You didn't include Defoe or Halliday (who SG seems to regard as a sort of captain).
Do you think there are development team players or others currently on loan or returning from injury who could put themselves into solid reliable first team players that gain the 'trusted' badge and improve the team for next season?
You don't think Katic will turn out to be good enough or Barasic once they've fully adapted to the game in Scotland?
Do you reckon Jordan Jones can make the leap into the Rangers team and make a big improvement on what we already have?
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12 minutes ago, gogzy said:
Tav is one of the best players we have. Candias is far from a loser ( he is a bit inconsistent, but most wing players are) he is vital to the style we have, no other winger we have does what he does.
Halliday is having his best season in a Rangers jersey and Worral is a loan so he will be gone in the summer anyway.
Barasic, the jury is still out on him for me.
They may not be what is needed but calling them losers seems a bit OTT.
On a lighter note, they dropped point today too, so the gap didn't get any bigger.
Gerrard often refers in interviews to players he "trusts". Which players in the squad do you think tick the 'trust' box and should be kept (assuming no acceptable bids were received for them)?
I don't recall any journo or anyone from RTV pressing SG about providing a fuller listing of those trustworthy players. By extension if there are players he trusts it implies there are players he does not trust at all or who have not yet earned his full and unreserved trust. His references in recent months to Barasic and Katic are examples and which may explain why Katic routinely warms the bench even though he is signed as a Rangers player whereas Worrall gets picked in preference even though he is on loan. Davis also seems to be one who has found his way to the naughty 'not yet trusted' seat.
- backup, HG5 and Blue Avenger
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Will be interested to see what happens with SG at the end of the season - or more to the point around the time of the start of next EPL season. A lot of talk is understandably about the prospect of Morelos moving on for a decent transfer fee. Maybe bids would also be received and accepted for others...….Tavernier and Candeias spring to mind as players who might attract bids from other clubs.
But the possibility of a bid coming in from an English club for Gerrard presumably could not be ruled out. It might not be accepted of course but if it were then I'd assume it'd be for a substantial amount of money which might just be attractive to the Board. And maybe to Gerrard if he felt that the financial resources he needed to get the quality of player needed to replace Morelos (and others who might leave) was not likely to be enough for him to produce a better title-challenging side next season.
The point is, what if became clear to Gerrard that this first season turned out to be the most opportune / best season to have won a trophy and that that to replace Morelos goals might not be possible next season so next season risks becoming yet another barren season. If a bid came in for Gerrard and the Rangers Board was not able or willing to find transfer funds to back Gerrard's ambitions for the team next season then that could make for a very interesting decision for Gerrard to take.
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"...…..improve the quality in the final third or find different solutions in the final third...…". An extract from SG's post-match interview. As he put it himself he's faced with an 'interesting challenge' having witnessed this sort of failing performance at least 5 or 6 times this season; a situation he accepts is not acceptable.
It's one thing identifying the problem, another in seeing clearly what is required for the team...……..but as he's finding out its a very big leap to translate the analysis, the requirement, and the vision into the actual reality of a team that delivers it consistently enough.
So a case of change players and / or change the way the players are to play. The first costs money - probably a lot more than we can currently afford - to get ready-made players in. The alternative being to develop some of them through to the first team but that could take a fair bit of time and may not be fully successful. SG's second point seems to be a coaching point. Even if there is a coaching route to find different solutions for the 'final third' the question would still remain......are the current players capable of adapting to it and in doing so improve the number of games won?
As SG has now seen on a repeated basis and despite his best coaching efforts so far, too many of the current first team squad are not up to it. He - like us - can be as frustrated as he likes but the nose and the tail of it is that there are too many for whom the requirement is more than a step too far for them to actually achieve.
Overlaid on his 'interesting challenge' is the pressure to actually win a major trophy. Something that has not happened since season 2010/11. How much time is the Board prepared to let slip by without Rangers winning a major trophy? ……...Especially with a 150th anniversary now on the very near horizon. The Board need to find a whole lot more money for SG to acquire the sort of quality player needed. If that cannot be done then the Board need to come clean and say its down to SG to develop players to fit the requirement or get loan players and supplement them with occasional 'ready for first team' players bought in.
We are in a trophy-winning wilderness and that needs to be rectified very soon. Endlessly trying to learn and trying to adapt need the end product of actually winning trophies. Otherwise we just becomes a process machine to develop players for the sake of developing players in the hope that a spell with Rangers improves their game and we might get some transfer money for them. Player development and money generated from transfer fees then become more important than winning trophies. That puts us in the realms of provincial clubs who have only very limited ambition of maybe winning a cup trophy on very rare occasions. The question might be asked sooner or later if that is state the Board is allowing Rangers to drift into. Because if its not and if there is genuinely a far higher(and traditional) ambition then a Board presiding from a comfy Boardroom would need to get its sleeves rolled up and find materially more money for player investment.
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As I interpret him he takes the blame. He's absolutely right when he says you might get away with this once or twice a season but this is now (his words) 5/6 times. Basically he's admitting this is nowhere near good enough. He also seems to be admitting its giving him a real challenge as to how to fix the problem.
Personally I think he knows he does not have enough players of the right winning / goal scoring quality. The question will be can he obtain some or develop some. It's clear enough to me that he seems to conclude the current squad is not good enough - because it can not - or will not - produce consistent winning form. Doesn't matter how often he refers to the problem or how often he identifies what is needed, he does not appear to have the players who are able to respond and deliver.
- Zappa6995, Thermopylae, CoopsLaud and 2 others
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Should we demand VAR
in Jimmy Bell's Kitroom
Posted
Picture the scene (pun intended).
OF game and a repeat of the incident in a recent Italian game takes place. Extract from news report at the time......
Video review changed the course of a Serie A match in Italy on Sunday when, for the first time, a goal was disallowed and a penalty awarded to the opposing team in the same decision. SPAL thought it had gone 2-1 ahead when Mattia Valoti scored on the counter-attack but the referee viewed a previous incident on VAR and opted to award Fiorentina a penalty for Dias Felipe's trip on Federico Chiesa moments earlier. The decision, which came more than four minutes after the foul, made everything that had followed null and void, including Valoti's goal.
Scenes at OF game if that happened here. Difference is instead of taking 4 mins to make a VAR decision it'd take Scottish VAR longer (they'd need to contact Liewell to get the VAR decision overturned if it were going against C.....).
Even worse, imagine the scenes if it was a cup final or if it was the game that decided a league title.
Riots.