Reply From Ofcom on BBC 'hun' usage

[samNewton 0]

I really don't know why I'm fighting this, but it's a lot of crap.

Why does the Celtic support refer to Hearts, Motherwell fans, etc., as 'h***'?

I believe they call Hearts the mini-h***, the same way we call Hibs the mini-tims. I've never heard of Motherwell fans being called h***.

Why do some - at least - talk about 'h** schools'?

I'd be offended...if there was such a thing as a Protestant school.

That fans of other clubs refer to Rangers supporters as 'h***' is evidence only of ignorance and a copycat mentality. Likewise, Rangers fans who stupidly call themselves this word are simply mimicking others and haven't a clue about the words origins and significance (more later).

I'm not buying that. There is no evidence down the line of history of h*** ever meaning Protestant.

Less than two decades ago it was commonplace for Rangers fans to refer to Celtic supporters as 'h***', although largely courtesy of Celtic fanzines in the 80s, the meaning of the word was turned around.

So your admitting it doesn't mean Protestant...either that or you're saying we used to be the anti-Protestant bigots?

It is used as a sextarian insult in Northern Ireland, with graffiti 'Kill All h***' directed against Protestants and members of the security forces.

I believe the Republicans refer to the British army as "h***". Personally I'd put a bullet through everyone of their heads.

As for 'mainstream use', BBC Scotland outlawed 'h**' in its radio programmes some time back after complaints about Cowan and Cosgrove. Similarly, there was an apology by a Herald journalist for using the word. It is not now used in the mainstream media - thanks to Rangers fans who have devoted some time to complaining about it.

Maybe because it is a derogatory remark for Rangers fans, but not a sectarian one.

Now, regardless of the above, since WWI 'h**' has always been a highly derogatory term in the British - and particularly Scottish - vernacular. The Rangers support used to direct the chant 'Go Home Ya h***' at Celtic fans - not, you'll notice, 'Go Home Ya Tims'!

I've not argued it's not derogatory. I've said it doesn't mean Protestant.

The modern-day equivalent of 'h**' would be 'scum' or 'trash'.

For several reasons, therefore, this word should not be tolerated by Rangers fans and BBC Scotland's stance is to be deplored.

I never said we had tolorate it, I said it wasn't a derogatory term for a Protestant, just a Rangers fan.

I can't believe I'm sticking up for them about this, but the fact of the matter is complaining about something daft like this makes us out to be daft wee kids. Let them complain like daft wee kids about nothing stories. It's only in recent times the Rangers fans have jumped on this bandwagon. Let's jump off.

To much of the Celtic support, 'Protestant' and 'Rangers' are synonymous.

Although there isn't such a thing in Scotland as a 'Protestant' school, in the minds of certain Celtic fans that is exactly what non-denominational schools are. They aren't the slightest bit concerned about the subtleties of the situation.

I - and many others - firmly believe that 'h**' is used as a sectarian slur. Why else would they sing 'Go Home Ya h***' to the Hearts and Motherwell supports?

As I was at pains to point out, the siginificance of the word 'h**' has changed since the 1980s - just as the meanings of words like 'gay' and 'queer' have also changed in the past few decades. Republicans use the word 'h**' to refer to Protestants. This can be verified by examining websites addressing sectarianism in Northern Ireland.

Their complaining like 'daft wee kids' has caused massive problems for Rangers FC and its support. These 'daft wee kids' include a former First Minister, many MPs and MSPs, dozens of journalists, TV producers and editors, prominent academics, cardinals and bishops and numerous so-called 'anti-sectarianism' organisations.

Now, I wouldn't mind travelling back in time to the 80s or even early 90s, when each side gave as good as it got. However, that world is gone forever and it is crazy to think that we can afford to adopt an ostrich-like response.

How on earth can we tolerate a situation in which Rangers fans can be arrested, banned from Ibrox for life and perhaps even lose their careers should they use the word 'Fenian' yet sit back and allow the taxpayer-funded state broadcaster to glibly use the word 'h**'? The same state broadcaster which has led the witch-hunt over the 'famine is over' chant!

The whole notion that we can afford to pretend that dignified silence will ultimately pay off must be knocked on the head. It has been a catastrophic failure. No-one particularly relishes firing off complaints and most deeply regret that it has come to this. But the alternative policy of accepting treatment as second-class citizens will not achieve anything.

[J_RFC87 761]

We do agree with the BBC. We are aware of the sensitivities of the word “hun” and that it can be used in a pejorative and abusive fashion about Rangers fans. However the context of its use is crucial here. Rab C Nesbitt is an established comedy programme set in and reflecting Glasgow and featuring characters (some unattractive) and dialogue which poke fun at many subjects. The humour is at least in part derived from the improbability of Nesbitt and his mates being able to look down on anyone else. The use of the word “hun” came across as simply an off-hand reference.

What an absolutely pathetic reason!

I hate the word 'hun' and it should never be used on the BBC in a comedy sketch.

[FlippinEck 3,708]

Could have just said he a bluenose bastard and there would have been no confusion and no complaints, I very highly doubt you would see them using the word "fenian"

[RedWhiteBlue1872 407]

I see both sides,

Doesnt directly bother/affect me

I can see why would people would complain, though it is a bit petty and IMO makes us sound a bit like the scum.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

I complained.

Too fucking right I did. For the hard of thinking - the word 'h**' is a racial insult commonly used to describe Germans and more specifically, Nazi's. No ifs, buts or context excuses about it.

If Great Britain had waged wars with Pakistan instead of Germany, do you think OFCOM would have been so tolerant of the commonly used racial insult for Pakistani's?

If you are a Rangers supporter and don't mind being insulted via a term for Nazi's then I despair.

[CraigRFC 1]

As I said at the time it's people that are complaining about this sort of thing, are the ones that are turning this country into a pc mad one. Even if you were offended why would you go and write to ofcom about it?

It's really laughable

[brissyger 8]

If you said the N word in the same context you'd be banned from television simple as that. Not saying that h** is in the same ball park but still shouldn't be a word that's bandied about like it's not offensive.

[MosesMcNeil 1,664]

Even if you were offended why would you go and write to ofcom about it? It's really laughable

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

See if you can figure it out for yourself.

[jolly 0]

This thread looks like a trolling attempt, but I'm saddened to think that it's actually real.

What kind of whingeing old women are complaining about language on RAB C FFS!?!

[outlaw69uk 123]

Even if you were offended why would you go and write to ofcom about it? It's really laughable

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

See if you can figure it out for yourself.

I love that quote

[BRICKY1872 118]

I've posted on here and on other forums in the past with regard to this. I refuse to get upset about tims using the word "h**" with reference to Rangers fans when I've yet to get a credible explanation from any of them I've questioned as to why they use it. Some are quite honest about the fact that they use it but have no idea why. Anyone who can get upset about a brainless bunch of cunts like that needs to have a word with themself.

[Bluebear_73 0]

The word fenian is used on the BBC, sitting with the kids one day watching CBeebies a cartoon called Jakers was on, they call each other grand fenians all the time. Im not defending the BBC but I have heard the word Fenian used on it.

[royalbluebell 38]

The word fenian is used on the BBC, sitting with the kids one day watching CBeebies a cartoon called Jakers was on, they call each other grand fenians all the time. Im not defending the BBC but I have heard the word Fenian used on it.

....are you sure it wasn't called Jakies?

[Bluebear_73 0]

It is also got a pig as its main character ...

[AMMS 27]

The reply from Ofcom is remarkable, I mean who would have thought BBC Scotland employed 2 Rangers fans. Expect a memo to HR from the powers on high...

[Bluedell 14]

I really don't know why I'm fighting this, but it's a lot of crap.

Why does the Celtic support refer to Hearts, Motherwell fans, etc., as 'h***'?

I believe they call Hearts the mini-h***, the same way we call Hibs the mini-tims. I've never heard of Motherwell fans being called h***.

Hearts are called mini-h*** because they are looked upon as being a Protestant club.

Why do some - at least - talk about 'h** schools'?

I'd be offended...if there was such a thing as a Protestant school.

Of course there aren't Protestant schools, but that doesn't mean than some unenlightened people don't look at them as suchj and refer to them as h** schools.

That fans of other clubs refer to Rangers supporters as 'h***' is evidence only of ignorance and a copycat mentality. Likewise, Rangers fans who stupidly call themselves this word are simply mimicking others and haven't a clue about the words origins and significance (more later).

I'm not buying that. There is no evidence down the line of history of h*** ever meaning Protestant.

Yes, there is. Just because you aren't aware of it, or don't acceopt it when it's highliughted to you doesn't mean it isn't there.

Less than two decades ago it was commonplace for Rangers fans to refer to Celtic supporters as 'h***', although largely courtesy of Celtic fanzines in the 80s, the meaning of the word was turned around.

So your admitting it doesn't mean Protestant...either that or you're saying we used to be the anti-Protestant bigots?

I think what is being said is that it wasn't a sectarian insult 20 years ago. Now it is.

It is used as a sextarian insult in Northern Ireland, with graffiti 'Kill All h***' directed against Protestants and members of the security forces.

I believe the Republicans refer to the British army as "h***". Personally I'd put a bullet through everyone of their heads.

No. It is Protestants that are referred to as h***. That is why the PSNI have banned the use of the word along with t.aig and other such words.

As for 'mainstream use', BBC Scotland outlawed 'h**' in its radio programmes some time back after complaints about Cowan and Cosgrove. Similarly, there was an apology by a Herald journalist for using the word. It is not now used in the mainstream media - thanks to Rangers fans who have devoted some time to complaining about it.

Maybe because it is a derogatory remark for Rangers fans, but not a sectarian one.

Err No. You're really clutching at straws on this. It was banned after complaints were made in respect of it being sectarian.

I've replied in blue to most of the points above.

Even Nil by Mouth accept it's a sectarian term.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Much ado about nothing:

[Bluedell 14]

Much ado about nothing:

It's a shame you treat sectarian abuse with such disdain.

If a Jew was called a kike, would you take the same attitude? How about the use of "n***er"? Still "much ado about nothing"?

[justiston 91]

Much ado about nothing:

It's a shame you treat sectarian abuse with such disdain.

If a Jew was called a kike, would you take the same attitude? How about the use of "n***er"? Still "much ado about nothing"?

Do you take such offence to every film or tv programme that uses those terms though?

[CraigRFC 1]

Even if you were offended why would you go and write to ofcom about it? It's really laughable

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

See if you can figure it out for yourself.

To reply with the quote is also laughable! There's a big difference with what happened to the Jews, Communists and Trade Unionists to a comedy sketch which used the word h**

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

Got the same reply Duke....will be writing back.

Not prepared to accept its usage and I think the explanation was pretty poor.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

I complained.

Too fucking right I did. For the hard of thinking - the word 'h**' is a racial insult commonly used to describe Germans and more specifically, Nazi's. No ifs, buts or context excuses about it.

If Great Britain had waged wars with Pakistan instead of Germany, do you think OFCOM would have been so tolerant of the commonly used racial insult for Pakistani's?

If you are a Rangers supporter and don't mind being insulted via a term for Nazi's then I despair.

A fine point Moses but I would respectfully suggest it goes far beyond what you have alluded to.

How can it be that in a Scotland which is supposedly at war with sectarianism...that a term already established in Scottish courts as sectarian.......which the anti-sectarian charity Nil By Mouth condemns...can be used in a comedy sketch ?

If anything the context in which it is used - allegedly "comedy" ....only serves to compound matters. It infers that its usage is light hearted - comical - when in fact it is not.

And the assertion from Alan Stewart that it can be a term of abuse for Rangers supporters is only part of the story - the truth being it is a term of abuse for Protestants....hence its use to describe Hearts supporters.

Do we live in a country which condemns sectarianism in any form...in fact adopts a zero tolerance stance towards it....yet appears to turn a blind eye when a derogatory term is used against the majority people of this nation ?

Thats some imbalance....and where will it end ?