UEFA to hammer Rangers

[The Hammer 11 2,671]

Some people on here don't understand what it means to be a Rangers fan or even just a fan of the culture and traditions of this club. They can't seem to accept our culture and we are getting pelters from all over and we have people in here defending that view and trying to put the club and the supporters down?

I am very proud of our supporters and I consider them all true Rangers fans. Keep singing and never surrender the traditions of our people.

Triumph comes not to those who can inflict the most, but those who can endure the most. Fuck UEFA. No surrender.

that would be a nice we banner

[DietofWorms 2,067]

Of course we are - I accept that this situation is unfair, underhand and pretty fuckin pathetic. We find ourselves in this position however and it's a situaution we MUST adapt to if we want to avoid harming the club.And there it is - it's a choice of defending our beliefs or not harming the club.

I know which one I'm all for.

I agree...but I'd like to see us put up a bit of a fight and start taking some bodies with us. It is hard to toe an imaginary line and then see some people in the press piss all over us. I fucking hate being called a bigot by bigots.

[tommy2212 151]

If we do stand up for ourselves we run a very high risk of harming the club.

It's our choice, either we;

A) Fight for our beliefs.

or

B) Do what's best for the club.

Surely A is B, fighting for your beliefs is the best for your club. Its history, culture and traditions that makes a football club. We lose these and we are nothing more than a NFL franchise.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

I agree...but I'd like to see us put up a bit of a fight and start taking some bodies with us. It is hard to toe an imaginary line and then see some people in the press piss all over us. I fucking hate being called a bigot by bigots.

Me too. A large fine is a large fine however.

[kplfishtank 4,668]

I have never once said i was a better fan, i have argued im just as big a fan as anyone else, and often made my feelings to those who regard themselves as "fans" when they are inflicting financial sanctions against us.

I'm taking no moral high ground, i just want those responsible to realise that we CANNOT afford for shite like this to happen,

did you not say you were a bigger fan than casey?

we havent been found guilty yet and had no punishment

me personally , i can go and watch the gers without singing anything but if others choose to sing songs from our past, i would never be critical of them .

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Surely A is B, fighting for your beliefs is the best for your club. Its history, culture and traditions that makes a football club. We lose these and we are nothing more than a NFL franchise.

Not in this case. Not when a heavy fine is looming large when we can least afford it.

[The Hammer 11 2,671]

Id also like to ask UEFA why they failed to take any action on this after all it happened at a UEFA competition

France faces up to football hooliganism

By Caroline Wyatt

BBC News, Paris

French football clubs and the authorities have vowed to clamp down on football hooliganism in France after a lethal confrontation between police and supporters of the Paris Saint-Germain team.

Paris Saint-Germain and Hapoel Tel Aviv players

Violence followed the French's side defeat by the Israeli visitors

Some 100 supporters of the team chased a Jewish man, shouting racist and anti-Semitic slogans, after their side lost 4-2 to Hapoel Tel Aviv last Thursday.

A black plain-clothes police officer who tried to protect the French fan of the visiting Israeli team also became the focus of the crowd's anger.

When he too came under verbal and physical attack, he drew his gun amid the chaos and shot and killed one Paris Saint-Germain supporter and seriously injured another.

France was horrified by the picture of football-related violence, racism and anti-Semitism revealed by the tragic incident.

The Paris prosecutor must now decide whether the police officer, Antoine Granomort, acted in legitimate self-defence or whether charges should be laid.

At the same time, the Tel Aviv fan, Yaniv Hazout, and his family are being given increased protection measures by the local authorities in the tough Paris suburb of Sarcelles in case of reprisal attacks.

Hooligan ban

A police trade union official, Luc Poignant, has defended Mr Granomort's action.

French gendarme watches a Paris Saint-Germain being frisked at a stadium

Police have said they will clamp down on hooliganism

He said the crowd was shouting "filthy Jew" at Mr Hazout, and when they saw the plain-clothes policeman, who is of Afro-Caribbean descent, they began to yell: "Filthy black, we're going to get you."

Witnesses say they also saw PSG fans give Nazi salutes and heard them make monkey noises.

The Interior Minister, Nicolas Sarkozy - known for his hardline stance on law and order - says France will do everything it can to stop racist fans entering football stadiums.

The Socialist party has also suggested looking to the UK for examples of how to act successfully to prevent football hooliganism.

Mr Sarkozy held a crisis meeting on Saturday with the head of the French Professional Football League, whose president Frederic Thiriez said he was "shattered" by what had happened after Thursday's game, and would do all he could to ensure such an incident could never take place again.

But the director-general of the French police, Michel Gaudin, insisted that recent measures taken against football hooliganism had already begun to have an effect.

He told Le Parisien newspaper that violent racist acts involving football fans in France had dropped to six incidents so far this season, mainly in Paris, compared with 19 over the same period last year.

However, he admitted that after some trouble-makers were excluded from attending matches, "pre-planned" fights between rival fans were taking place outside the stadiums, for example in nearby car parks.

Mr Gaudin estimated that another 300 known hooligans could find themselves banned from matches, while the football league says that from now on, all football stadiums must install video surveillance cameras.

Silent march

PSG is a club that is known to have a notoriously racist fan base. Black players often suffer racist chants or insults, while white gangs have been known to fight their black and Arab counterparts during or after games.

Paris Saint-Germain fans holding banner in memory of fan shot by police

The Paris Saint-Germain fan's death led to protests on the stands

The Boulogne Boys group of supporters, with whom the dead fan Julien Quemener was linked, are said to have modelled themselves on British football hooligans in the 1980s, though the group says it is not linked to the far-right or political in any way.

The name comes from the Kop of Boulogne, or KOB for short, one of the two main stands PSG supporters occupy at the stadium - the "kop" a direct reference to Anfield in Liverpool.

The authorities have warned that some groups of supporters could find themselves being disbanded if there is further violence at PSG matches - with the possibility that future matches could be closed to the public if the French football association deemed it necessary.

About 300 PSG supporters held a silent march on Sunday in memory of the fan who was killed, carrying a banner reading: "Murdering authorities - truth for Julien."

The KOB website has put out a call for PSG fans who may have witnessed the shooting to report to the police in order to put 'their side of the story' to balance what they say is a one-sided account in the media

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6189888.stm

[blueben_d 40]

We haven't even been found guilty yet, there's a lot of information we don't know - sad thing is uefa may well just punish us and not enter any discussion or give any real explanation.

If (and I personally find it hard to) you accept theres 2 meanings of the word Fenian then who are uefa or anyone else for that matter to tell me which one I mean? For me it's not interchangeable with catholic - and you'll probably find there are Catholics in our support also singing these songs - just are there are Irish singing the famine song.

Too many people have been brainwashed - where will it end?

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

did you not say you were a bigger fan than casey?

we havent been found guilty yet and had no punishment

me personally , i can go and watch the gers without singing anything but if others choose to sing songs from our past, i would never be critical of them .

Personally, I have went 20 years not giving a fuck what people sing - occasionally joining in.

I care now however if the club is in danger of being damaged.

[kanjo 26,408]

did you not say you were a bigger fan than casey?

we havent been found guilty yet and had no punishment

me personally , i can go and watch the gers without singing anything but if others choose to sing songs from our past, i would never be critical of them .

Casey is a differen't scenario completley. I would say those who follow Rangers for the follow are better fans.

Though if i sounded as though i was calling myself a better fan, then i apologise.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

If we do stand up for ourselves we run a very high risk of harming the club.

It's our choice, either we;

A) Fight for our beliefs.

or

B) Do what's best for the club.

Sorry when I said 'we' I meant the club.

There's nothing much we can do as a support if Rangers take it up the arse.

If they had to start banning supporters for singing these songs Ibrox would be empty,I'm sure they don't want that hence the latter part of Bain's statement.

[kplfishtank 4,668]

Casey is a differen't scenario completley. I would say those who follow Rangers for the follow are better fans.

Though if i sounded as though i was calling myself a better fan, then i apologise.

how can he be different if we are all equal in our level of support?

and he travels a long way to follow rangers, something being a local i take for granted.

[The Hammer 11 2,671]

Also if it is to do with the word fenian will celtic face similar action if there paddy McCourt banner makes an appearance in europe?

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Sorry when I said 'we' I meant the club.

There's nothing much we can do as a support if Rangers take it up the arse.

If they had to start banning supporters for singing these songs Ibrox would be empty,I'm sure they don't want that hence the latter part of Bain's statement.

There WAS something we could do - or not do - as a support to stop Rangers taking it up the arse.....but that ship has sailed.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,242]

Oh come on, the meanings of words evolve and change. Go tell me the original meaning of the word 'gay'. Meaning of words change depening on who is saying it and in what context. The World is far more complex than forming your arguments based on formal and literal meanings of words.

So what you're saying is that a word can mean anything you want it to at any particular time.

Your example of gay is good, but the dictonary gives both meanings, old and adopted.

I've never heard the Pope or his Bishops refer to his congregation as Fenian, it's the confused celtic support that adopted it as their own.

My legal argument would be,what definition came first? and when the song was derived what did the word fenian mean?.If the song was composed in recent times as a derogatory ditty to insult RC's then I would agree with your condemnation, but it wasn't. It has an hisorical base.

[SteveJ 743]

No surprises there from one of the spineless minority.

That post was bang on, in my opinion.

I was in a meeting today at work and we were discussing our lads and potential road offences, only for one manager to become uneasy at the possibilty of disciplining individuals for speeding - claiming it was the Police who need shot for hiding in various places or Councils for placing cameras in places known to capture the most fines.

Bottom line was presented to him in no uncertain terms - whether those who wish to catch you are being sneaky about it, if you do not break the law, you will not be caught and disciplined.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

There WAS something we could do - or not do - as a support to stop Rangers taking it up the arse.....but that ship has sailed.

Maybe we're different then.

You obviously toe the line when you're told to even when it's unfair or victimisation.

I feel we have a case as others do,now it's up to Rangers.

[kanjo 26,408]

how can he be different if we are all equal in our level of support?

and he travels a long way to follow rangers, something being a local i take for granted.

Because those who sing sectarian songs and cause sanctions like those today, are not fans. No amount of convincing would ever make me believe Casey was a model fan for our club.

Wether you choose to see it differently is perfectly up to you, though.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

So what you're saying is that a word can mean anything you want it to at any particular time.

Your example of gay is good, but the dictonary gives both meanings, old and adopted.

I've never heard the Pope or his Bishops refer to his congregation as Fenian, it's the confused celtic support that adopted it as their own.

My legal argument would be,what definition came first? and when the song was derived what did the word fenian mean?.If the song was composed in recent times as a derogatory ditty to insult RC's then I would agree with your condemnation, but it wasn't. It has an hisorical base.

The meaning of the word 'fenian' HAS changed though. The original meaning of the word may have been used in the song as you say - Rangers should have made this clear although it's a complicated situation.

There have been plenty of songs composed in recent times using this word however, any defence of these will be even more difficult, probably impossible. If they go after them then they can say 'why these and not The Billy Boys......it's the same word'.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Maybe we're different then.

You obviously toe the line when you're told to even when it's unfair or victimisation.

I feel we have a case as others do,now it's up to Rangers.

I toe the line when we're in danger of being harmed as a club.

[minnbear 30]

Why help them?

It's the bending over that has helped them get this far.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I toe the line when we're in danger of being harmed as a club.

Exactly,whether we are being unfairly picked on or not.

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

It's the bending over that has helped them get this far.

I'd say it's ignoring all the warnings despite what it may do to the club we all claim to love.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

Because those who sing sectarian songs and cause sanctions like those today, are not fans. No amount of convincing would ever make me believe Casey was a model fan for our club.

Wether you choose to see it differently is perfectly up to you, though.

That is an utterly ridiculous comment.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Because those who sing sectarian songs and cause sanctions like those today, are not fans. No amount of convincing would ever make me believe Casey was a model fan for our club.

Wether you choose to see it differently is perfectly up to you, though.

Can't you be straight with any of your answers? Nobody claimed that I was a model fan, infact it was you who said that you were a better fan than others.