Hello, Hello, We Are The Silly Boys!

[bjorkland 13]

catholic bashing?good for you good luck with that.anytime iam at a game anybody i speak to thinks its a fucking disgrace that we are being told dont sing this dont sing that.all the boys i know that follow the bears week in week out are the true voice of rangers supporters not faceless cowards that dont contribute to rangers in anyway whatsoever that come on internet forum and come out and spout alot of pish telling bears what to do.

And of course you know how much I contribute to the club don't you? Not that it is particularly relevant...

[bjorkland 13]

and Rangers fans are a UK team playing in this country in which you mention, who are also under the same sort of radar you imply - which I don't disagree with, btw.

There's no irony in the fact that I don't think there is a persicution of Rangers, and that I do think there is too much CCTV in the UK.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

There's no irony in the fact that I don't think there is a persicution of Rangers, and that I do think there is too much CCTV in the UK.

That's upto you, but I think your selective ignorance is astonishing.

[dado1 23]

And of course you know how much I contribute to the club don't you? Not that it is particularly relevant...

well there seems to be so many smart arse on hear saying we shouldnt sing it.where are they.i have never came across anybody at a game saying stop signing that.infact most people want to join in because we arnt all cowards and shitebags as soon as uefa or however the fuck try to bully us into telling us wot we can and cant do

[bjorkland 13]

Woahhhhhhhhh. Wait a minute.

It really doesn't.

By that logic, are you also quick to agree that the Grand Theft Auto gaming series promotes the use of jetpacks and drive-by shootings across urban America?

It really is the same argument of whether video games promote violence. Singing that you're "upto your knees in fenian blood" does not automatically spur you into the slaying of Catholic Scots. Whether we agree with that song or not, it's a song and that's as far as it goes.

Fair enough, I agree. Edited the original reply accordingly.

I'll dilute my point, by saying that singing about killing your opposition in a sporting event, is unneccesary. See my earlier response to Outlaw about the difference between rivalry and hatred.

[bjorkland 13]

Right I think I've replied to everyone. If I've missed anything, let me know. I'm off RM for the night now.

[rossDas 1,071]

Fair enough, I agree. Edited the original reply accordingly.

I'll dilute my point, by saying that singing about killing your opposition in a sporting event, is unneccesary. See my earlier response to Outlaw about the difference between rivalry and hatred.

There are many expressions that can be deemed unnecessary, but that's hardly justification for oppressing them.

I would say that as long as the culture of Irish extremism grows unchecked in Scotland then our songs are indeed necessary.

[H72 265]

Right I think I've replied to everyone. If I've missed anything, let me know. I'm off RM for the night now.

You must be exhausted.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Right I think I've replied to everyone. If I've missed anything, let me know. I'm off RM for the night now.

Thank fuck

[bjorkland 13]

Also just like to say a huge thanks to Admin for posting the article on the homepage.

It's clear from this thread, that the views expressed are not popular with everyone, but it's also clear there is a great deal of members and Rangers fans who do share them. Debate is healthy, and can only lead us forward as a support.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Also just like to say a huge thanks to Admin for posting the article on the homepage.

It's clear from this thread, that the views expressed are not popular with everyone, but it's also clear there is a great deal of members and Rangers fans who do share them. Debate is healthy, and can only lead us forward as a support.

It's nothing to do with others sharing them. A well written article is a well written article. Nothing more, nothing less.

A well written article is a credit to a website, regardless of the content.

[Smile 26,624]

I always hated bjorkland the cunt never crossed the half way line.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Right I think I've replied to everyone. If I've missed anything, let me know. I'm off RM for the night now.

Why limit it?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Come on! Hullo Hullo! Let me hear you! We Are The Silly Boys! All the way at the back! Hullo Hullo! One more time! You'll Know Us By Our Empty Stadium?

Not quite the version you know?

The fact that Rangers have found themselves in trouble with UEFA again is one which disappoints me, but sadly does not surprise me. Despite previous fines and warnings, an element of the Rangers support has, in all it's bravado, refused to heed the advice. And not just the advice of UEFA, the SPL/SFA, and police. They have also blatantly ignored ignored advice from the club, most recently voiced by Walter Smith himself.

Now I want to make some points crystal clear at the start. First, I am a Rangers supporter, I have been all my life and I do not appreciate being called anything other than that. Secondly, this is not about Celtic. I'll touch more on that later. Thirdly, this is not about being singled out by UEFA/the SFA/the press/whomever. I will grant that there is certainly an air of uneveness in respect to what other supporters seemingly get away with. However, never once has a teacher been convinced by the excuse "but Miss, he was doing it to!"

What concerns me, is that despite the year being 2011, despite mainstream society no longer accepting sexual, racial or religious intolerance and despite threats of sanctions and bans being brought against the club we support, some Rangers fans still maintain the 'no one likes us, we don't care' attitude. I've seen several defences offered to the current situation, all of which completely miss the point.

First, as mentioned previously, one defence offered is that we are not the only support to sing offensive, even sectarian songs. Correct, we are not. Given that the most common offender offered up is Celtic, I shall continue this trend. There are, I believe, two elements to this defence. The first is simple. Certain fans do not actually care what Celtic fans sing, however they are embroiled in a continuing cycle of hatred towards Celtic. They see everything that they do as negative and wrong. They are bitter beyond words, and want Celtic to suffer. The second element is more sensible, yet still unconvincing. They argue that because Celtic sing offensive songs, Rangers can/should as well. Or in a variation, Rangers fans will stop singing offensive songs once Celtic fans do. This is a ridiculous defence, and one any self respecting Rangers fan should be ashamed to use. Let me be clear, I am not siding with the pro IRA chants or anything else with comes from Celtic fans mouths. What I am concerned with first and foremost, is the image and reputation of the club I support. To even begin to believe it is ok to do something wrong, because others do it, is playground morality at it's finest. Rangers are above it. We lead the way in trophies. We lead the way in titles. Let's lead the way in riding ourselves of sectarianism.

The second defence I have came across is often the most misunderstood one. Free speech. "It's a free country, I can say what I like!" Wrong. The right to free speech has never meant you can say what you like, where you like, when you like. We have a responsibility to use our free speech without infringing upon the rights of others. I don't want to get bogged down by semantics or philosophical debate, however consider the following example. A man sits in a darkened cinema. He knows there is only one exit at the back. He shouts 'fire, fire' at the top of his voice. This causes the audience to panic, and start to flee for the exit. The ensuing panic causes a crush at the exit. Several people are badly hurt and one young child is crushed to death. It later transpires there was no fire. Should the man have been free to shout 'fire' in the first place? Now I know people will ask, what's offensive about The Billy Boys, and I'll come to that, but it is my belief, that as a support, we cannot expect to sing whatever it is we like without having to think about others.

The third defence I have encountered is that there is nothing bigoted about The Billy Boys. Just to quickly side step this, I'm only talking about TBB here, because I have neither the time nor desire to examine every 'Rangers' song. I shall return to this. The crux of this defence is that the word fenian does not mean Catholic, but in fact means Irish Republican. This response, to me personally, is the strangest of all. Rangers supporters have spent the last 40+ years refering the word fenian at free will to anyone associated with Celtic or Catholicism. I have seen it and heard it throughout my life. Look on any internet forum, and you'll see comments like 'Fenian Bastard' or 'Dirty Fenian' directed to towards people who clearly have no association with Irish Republicism. Foreign players, referees who give a decision in Celtic's favour, even people associated with the Catholic Church have all been tarred with the word fenian in the past, and continue to be today. It is mighty rich to claim that when they are singing about being 'up to their knees' in Fenian blood, it is in fact the blood of a 19th Century group. It's pish, and most educated people can see right through it. Yes, no one can claim to know the singers thoughts, but when all the evidence surrounding them, shows a hatred of Catholics, and the term fenian being directly associated with Catholics, then the evidence is damning.

So what can we do? Firstly I do believe the problem has got better. The press, tabloids especially, sensationalise stories for the purposes of selling papers. This is just as irresponsible as the people who promote bigotry, and deserves an investigation of it's own. I wait with baited breath for that. Secondly, I also don't think it's something which will ever go away. For that to happen, we would need the word's of Imagine by John Lennon to reality, and that's not likely any time soon. However, to bury our heads in the sand is simply not an option. The club deserves commended for the efforts it has made. As I said, the problem is not as severe as it was even twenty years ago, and Murray deserves praise for that. But we can do more. As a support, those of us who abhor this constant blight must take action. One critism levelled against 'handwringers', as we have been dubbed, is that we are silent in the face of the acts we condemn. This is sadly true. We must become vocal. Boo when sectarian songs are sung, do not join in singing songs whose words you do not agree with simply because it's part of the 'atmosphere', promote non-sectarian songs which pour glory on Rangers, and yes if worst comes to worst report sectarian behaviour.

For the clubs part, I think tougher stance is needed. They must publish, and have clarified by law, which songs cannot be sung. This provides clear evidence to the headstrong in our support, that what they indulge in is a criminal act. They must instruct stewards and police to take action. If a UEFA delegate can hear sectarian singing, I'm sure the authorities can to. We are told it is a punishable offence, so why does nothing happen. They must also try to create more of an atmosphere themselves. That goes for the standard of play on the park too!

But crucially the crux of the issue rests, as do most things, with education. The club has to be active in promoting anti-bigotry in schools and communities. And NOT just non-demoninational schools. Without getting into the debate about Catholic schools, Rangers Football Club must tackle preconcieved notions that we all hate Catholics. I'd also want to see the anti-bigotry campaign fronted by players, not suits.

Hopefully, this forthcoming ban is the kick up the backside we need to stamp this out once and for all. I ask all fans, even if they don't want to change their personal views, to refrain from singing songs which can, and now clearly will, damage the club. Be a bigot on your own time, but Rangers will suffer if you do it during the 90 minutes. My aim of this article has been to show not just the world, but also the Rangers support, that being a Rangers fan, does not entail anything other than being a Rangers fan. But you knew that already...

Agreed

[trueblueal 2,117]

Agreed

not with every word but yes with the sentiments of the article

[SkylineBlue 24,606]

Wether or not you agree with singing the songs are not. The bottom line is its effecting OUR club. Noone elses but ours. If we love the club then we need to stop singing them for now. Wether you think its wrong or right. They are pleading with us because with the financial mess we are in just now we cannot afford fines and to be losing revenue. I'd rather lose songs than my club.

[minstral 5,375]

So how many songs will people be willing to give up.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Wether or not you agree with singing the songs are not. The bottom line is its effecting OUR club. Noone elses but ours. If we love the club then we need to stop singing them for now. Wether you think its wrong or right. They are pleading with us because with the financial mess we are in just now we cannot afford fines and to be losing revenue. I'd rather lose songs than my club.

Again, this is more of the scaremongering shite our fans seem to accept as gospel.

[H72 265]

Again, this is more of the scaremongering shite our fans seem to accept as gospel.

Sorry, I'm genuinely confused to what you're identifying as "scaremongering shite".

Enlighten me.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Sorry, I'm genuinely confused to what you're identifying as "scaremongering shite".

Enlighten me.

How's that for starters

I'd rather lose songs than my club.

[H72 265]

How's that for starters

The suggestion that the Club will go under if fans keep singing certain songs is bullshit, agreed.

[SkylineBlue 24,606]

Again, this is more of the scaremongering shite our fans seem to accept as gospel.

I'm not saying thats definately going to be the case. But I wouldnt completely discount it. It is effecting the club, that is undeniable just now. Wether its justified or not, it is having an impact that i think we could be doing without.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

The suggestion that the Club will go under if fans keep singing certain songs is bullshit, agreed.

Thank you.

[trueblueal 2,117]

So how many songs will people be willing to give up.

Personally anything that isn't related to the football I have no interest in. Not interested in Irish politics of the modern or historic variety in any way. If others want to sing these songs it doesn't offend me but I don't join in.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Personally anything that isn't related to the football I have no interest in. Not interested in Irish politics of the modern or historic variety in any way. If others want to sing these songs it doesn't offend me but I don't join in.

That's fair do's mate. I could tell you 5 or 6 Rangers songs I don't sing because I hate them for various reasons - but I don't tell other's not to sing them