One Thing I Thought Was A Bit Strange

[forlanssister 157]

The accounts will be released, he's obliged to by law! TBH, that's the earliest anyone can really start to make a judgement on Whyte, although if they are released before the tax case, it would still be to early imo.

Taking the debt from Lloyds could well be what saves us if we lose the tax case by the sounds of things.

Yes he's obliged to by law but as was demonstrated tonight he has previous form for not doing so, that's why he received a seven year ban from being a Company Director. The accounts still have to be signed off though, and the decision of the tax tribunal has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the release date of the accounts that is a matter of law.

[lgr1991 303]

Yes he's obliged to by law but as was demonstrated tonight he has previous form for not doing so, that's why he received a seven year ban from being a Company Director. The accounts still have to be signed off though, and the decision of the tax tribunal has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the release date of the accounts that is a matter of law.

Yeah, but the accounts can be released any time before december 31st I think, so they still could be released before or after the tax case.

He's hardly going to get himself arrested for not releasing the accounts on time is he? He's not that stupid

[caseyjones 3,009]

So you beleive LLoyds? FS

I don't believe any of them implicitly as they all have their own agendas.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Could be, although he could be planning to spend it January.

Why is the whole two tranfer windows a season thing so hard for you to grasp?

It's not about the spending of it, it's about you missing it out of your income/outgoings analysis.

You seem to be struggling to remember what you've posted previously.

[gunslinger 270]

I read the same thing. There's nothing there to say we have cash for the signings. I expect McCoist to get about 20% of the sales.

that's sure as fuck not been said.

[lgr1991 303]

I don't believe any of them implicitly as they all have their own agendas.

Well, using deductive reasoning, inductive reasoning, logical conclusions, whatever method you want and look at the evidence, is it likely that Lloyds threatened to cut the clubs credit line if the takeover never happened?

We're talking about Lloyds here FFS, bunch of money grabbing cunts, look at their history over the past decade, typical bank, they want as much money as they can get asap. They would rather have the 18million up front than continue milking a cow that was about to dry up.

Lloyds never even denied it.

[rokcy 4]

Alastair Johnston

Chairman

1 April 2011

Consolidated Profit & Loss Account

6 months to 6 months to

31 December 2010 31 December 2009

Unaudited Unaudited

£000 £000

Turnover 33,718 37,834

Net operating expenses (21,133) (21,008)

Exceptional item (note 1) (1,870) -

Trading profit 10,715 16,826

Amortisation of player registrations (3,860) (3,730)

Operating profit 6,855 13,096

Gain on disposal of player registrations 3,719 678

Profit before interest & tax 10,574 13,774

Interest (note 1) (1,550) (677)

Profit before tax 9,024 13,097

Taxation - -

Retained profit for the period 9,024 13,097

Basic and diluted earnings per share (p) 8.3 12.0

Note:

1. The exceptional item reflects a provision for a potential tax liability in relation to a Discounted Option Scheme associated with player

contributions between 1999 and 2003. A provision for interest of £0.9m has also been included within the interest charge.

How has £1,870,000 suddenly become £4.2 million.

[Dallas Cowboy 3]

Now I'm still in the minority of people who are really not convinced by whyte and tonight's problem never really changed my opinions on him either way

But I picked up on the guy talking about how his company were struggling and whyte took a 51% share in it and promised to invest £500k straight away but it didn't happen and the company never seen the money until it was far to late and the company went bust .

IMO whyte has pretty much done the same with us with the promise of money yet failing to deliver with the 5 mill upfront and more if ally needed .

So that's shows that he has made false promises in the past and I unfortunately I think will that will only continue in the future

He has now said he won't appeal the tax case if unsuccessful after saying only yesterday to the RST that he would .

He has now promised £20 million investment by 2016 and that we will have funds to spend inJanuary , tbh I don't believe him

Takes a wee while to sign up for this place

In the same segment there was a throw away comment that another of the companies he invested in upon his return turned a £5M profit last year.

Why was the examination of companies split to concentrate on the company that failed, why not the the company that succeeded or a 50/50 split?

Points of concern yes, but it was a hatchet job, pure and simple. Lets see what Whyte does at Rangers not what he done before he got here - Branson's done ok after spending time inside for dodgy dealings has he not?

************************

First Post, same username as I have on FF.

[lgr1991 303]

It's not about the spending of it, it's about you missing it out of your income/outgoings analysis.

You seem to be struggling to remember what you've posted previously.

Bit of logical fallacy as we don't know the current income or outgoings of the club.

As stated earlier, we don't know what we got from the Adam deal and we I doubt we have had any Wilson money since Whyte took over.

And how is it not about spending it when you said, direct quote.

"So Gordon Smith stating that the Adam windfall would be given to McCoist to spend was all just bollocks?"

How else can I answer that? How can you judge Whyte on that?

[lgr1991 303]

Takes a wee while to sign up for this place

In the same segment there was a throw away comment that another of the companies he invested in upon his return turned a £5M profit last year.

Why was the examination of companies split to concentrate on the company that failed, why not the the company that succeeded or a 50/50 split?

Points of concern yes, but it was a hatchet job, pure and simple. Lets see what Whyte does at Rangers not what he done before he got here - Branson's done ok after spending time inside for dodgy dealings has he not?

************************

First Post, same username as I have on FF.

Welcome mate

Good point, on esuccesful business deal got a mere mention and the failings got plenty of air time.

Is there a thing as a venture capitalist who hasn't had a few failings in his history?

The whole doc was a continuation of the media frenzy that started last November.

Mostly speculation, the truth is no one knows what is in store for us, we have no choice but to wait and see.

Some are getting on Whytes back too early, and claims that he has not fulfilled his promises he made are simply wrong AT THIS STAGE.

People need to give the guy a chance FFS.

[Dallas Cowboy 3]

Welcome mate

Good point, on esuccesful business deal got a mere mention and the failings got plenty of air time.

Is there a thing as a venture capitalist who hasn't had a few failings in his history?

The whole doc was a continuation of the media frenzy that started last November.

Mostly speculation, the truth is no one knows what is in store for us, we have no choice but to wait and see.

Some are getting on Whytes back too early, and claims that he has not fulfilled his promises he made are simply wrong AT THIS STAGE.

People need to give the guy a chance FFS.

Cheers mate.

[gunslinger 270]

Takes a wee while to sign up for this place

In the same segment there was a throw away comment that another of the companies he invested in upon his return turned a £5M profit last year.

Why was the examination of companies split to concentrate on the company that failed, why not the the company that succeeded or a 50/50 split?

Points of concern yes, but it was a hatchet job, pure and simple. Lets see what Whyte does at Rangers not what he done before he got here - Branson's done ok after spending time inside for dodgy dealings has he not?

************************

First Post, same username as I have on FF.

will they investigate celtc in the same way? I doubt it.

[Dallas Cowboy 3]

will they investigate celtc in the same way? I doubt it.

Whats worse, CW's dodgy dealings or the Mhanky mobs conspiracy to cover up child abuse? I'm still waiting for that to receive the "Special Investigation" treatment, and thats been how long now?

[gunslinger 270]

Whats worse, CW's dodgy dealings or the Mhanky mobs conspiracy to cover up child abuse? I'm still waiting for that to receive the "Special Investigation" treatment, and thats been how long now?

newsnight special big jock did know.

or what about the guy at enron who used his celtc shares as bail collateral.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Takes a wee while to sign up for this place

In the same segment there was a throw away comment that another of the companies he invested in upon his return turned a £5M profit last year.

Why was the examination of companies split to concentrate on the company that failed, why not the the company that succeeded or a 50/50 split?

Points of concern yes, but it was a hatchet job, pure and simple. Lets see what Whyte does at Rangers not what he done before he got here - Branson's done ok after spending time inside for dodgy dealings has he not?

************************

First Post, same username as I have on FF.

That's my feelings exactly most of these money men sail close to the wind and any journalist with a grudge against them (a tim in Whyte's case) could always find some dirt if they dug deep enough

[TheLawMan 6,240]

He has invested far more than £5 million upfront in the squad already, what are you on about?

No-one knows this for certain unless you have access to bank accounts that show Craig whyte transferring in a sum of £5 million to pay these additional wages and transfers.

This would have to be ON TOP of the £5 million capital injection and the £1.7 million stadium improvements.

Has anyone seen them to definitively prove this.

[nelsonRFC82 305]

Many people jumped on the promise of £5m per year, and say this should mean transfers alone. Why? Do wages and contracts not cost money? We don't have 10 different bank accounts, each set aside for different areas of the business. If we spend money, or commit to spend money in terms of players contracts then we must be satisfied that we have enough income to afford this.

His promise was to invest in the "playing squad", he has done this. I think the comment is probably a bit misleading, and maybe deliberately so to gain some positive goodwill in the early days of his tenure. You could even claim the current investment is not to the full £5m, but let's not forget if his quote is per year that would include the January transfer window, so we are actually damning him for not spending money this year before the year is over! I get the feeling a lot of people on here would have been happy if we spent an additional £2m on another player, regardless of quality just to hold Whyte to his supposed promise of spending £5m on transfer fees!

Comments like the wages should not affect the transfer budget are, to be frank, nonsense! For example, if we signed 10 players on bosman deals and paying them £2m per year (unlikely, I know), there would still be a clamour of "what about the £5m transfer fees" despite a £20m increase in the clubs cost base! Money going out the club is money going out club regardless if it is a transfer fee, a new contract, wages or even repairing seats after the tarriers visit!

Sooner or later, fans are going to have to realise that our football club is also a business and must be run as so. The books must balance, and constant demands for Whyte to spend money is unrealistic...Rangers spend the money not Whyte. The attitude that it is the chairman who should spend personal money on the club rather than spending what the club earns is what got us into a lot of trouble with Murray and LBG, short term attitude and quick fixes were accepted so long as Murray could avoid being taken to task publicly until LBG put a stop to it and it was suddenly a case of WTF do we do now?

[TheLawMan 6,240]

Many people jumped on the promise of £5m per year, and say this should mean transfers alone. Why? Do wages and contracts not cost money? We don't have 10 different bank accounts, each set aside for different areas of the business. If we spend money, or commit to spend money in terms of players contracts then we must be satisfied that we have enough income to afford this.

His promise was to invest in the "playing squad", he has done this. I think the comment is probably a bit misleading, and maybe deliberately so to gain some positive goodwill in the early days of his tenure. You could even claim the current investment is not to the full £5m, but let's not forget if his quote is per year that would include the January transfer window, so we are actually damning him for not spending money this year before the year is over! I get the feeling a lot of people on here would have been happy if we spent an additional £2m on another player, regardless of quality just to hold Whyte to his supposed promise of spending £5m on transfer fees!

Comments like the wages should not affect the transfer budget are, to be frank, nonsense! For example, if we signed 10 players on bosman deals and paying them £2m per year (unlikely, I know), there would still be a clamour of "what about the £5m transfer fees" despite a £20m increase in the clubs cost base! Money going out the club is money going out club regardless if it is a transfer fee, a new contract, wages or even repairing seats after the tarriers visit!

Sooner or later, fans are going to have to realise that our football club is also a business and must be run as so. The books must balance, and constant demands for Whyte to spend money is unrealistic...Rangers spend the money not Whyte. The attitude that it is the chairman who should spend personal money on the club rather than spending what the club earns is what got us into a lot of trouble with Murray and LBG, short term attitude and quick fixes were accepted so long as Murray could avoid being taken to task publicly until LBG put a stop to it and it was suddenly a case of WTF do we do now?

Do you have proof he has placed £11.7 million in our bank account to cover all these promises this season?

[Agoram1 42]

You are not in the minority.

There are some serious blind faith issues around Whyte, but it is patently obvious, he does not have the money.

None of the curernt tax situation is his fault, however grave concerns were raised by Rangers men on the board at the time about his credability.

Time will tell, but only a fool thinks all this is some sort of

conspiracy to derail our title challenge.

See this 'rangers men on the board' shite!!!

They were the clowns that got our club in this mess. They are obviously going to be pissed off with whyte as he told the to get to fuck wen he took over.

The programme last night wasn't very one sided was it!???!?!

[nelsonRFC82 305]

Do you have proof he has placed £11.7 million in our bank account to cover all these promises this season?

I have not stated that he has placed £11.7m in our bank account, therefore not sure why I would be asked to prove such a thing. The proof I suppose will be in the financial statements, although our next one will only cover the period up to June, so it may even be the mid-term accounts or next years accounts before this can be verified? That said, any money deposited into our account will simply increase the debt the club owes to Whyte/'The Rangers Group'.

I don't have the circular infront of me, although believe there was a clause that said failure to adhere to these promises would result in the current debt being waived immediately which would be very foolish as at the moment he is the club's main creditor, a position he has already stated is very important in terms of how the club reacts to any negative result in the tax case.

The point I was making was in terms of people's attitude/understanding as to how the club should be run. We have just emerged from the previous tenure of being beholden to an owner/benefactor and it nearly crippled the club (still could given the tax case!) and a lot of people want to fall in to the exact same trap with Whyte, demanding he (not Rangers) spend money. We have to implement a self sustaining business model!

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

If he had put the money up straight away we would be playing in the CL, I have no doubts about this.

really, because if he had put up the money right away we would have bought a 30 year old centre half who is STILL recovering from a knee operation that he had back in may/june

lets have a look at whytes supposed shambolic transfer dealings

Cuellar: Still injured

Juhasz: Anderlecht changed their mind about him leaving for a set price

Hemed: Choose La Liga over SPL, not s surprise

Conway: DId we actually go for him, rumours he wanted 15k a week

Danns: Wanted to stay in England obviously, probably vanish into thin air now

The dutch lad (canny mind his name): Came to take to forest, got off the plane and felt homesick, fucked off back home

Goodwillie: Matched bid or not he wouldnt have came, also having seen the start to his career down there we may have saved a fortune

Now look at the deals he completed

Goian: International experienced defender playing in Italy for a number of seasons, guy is a rock

Bocanegra: 98 USA caps, over 140 appearances in the EPL and never once relegated there with Fulham

Bedoya: Jury is still out, looks decent enough to boost the squad numbers

McKay: see Bedoya above

Ortiz: Could maybe be finding his feet, if not then a cheap buy that isnt hard to move and again boosts the numbers

Wallace: Arguably the best LB in the scottish game, if anyone is better then its Papac and no one else

On top of that we

Signed Shagger on a 5 year deal

Signed Davis on a 5 year deal

Signed Whittaker on a 5 year deal (Mccoist will never live that down lol)

On massively bumped up contracts

Like it or not Whyte (and McCoist) have made this squad stronger than it has been for 3 seasons now, we have almost 2 players for every position, and have a cracking wealth of youth behind them also.

We are 10 points clear of what will be our nearest rivals come the end of the season, and have no midweek games to fuck us over

The european failures come from the management team and the players, their attitude and gameplan in both ties were wrong and since then McCoist has learned from his mistakes

[reddrock 107]

Now I'm still in the minority of people who are really not convinced by whyte and tonight's problem never really changed my opinions on him either way

But I picked up on the guy talking about how his company were struggling and whyte took a 51% share in it and promised to invest £500k straight away but it didn't happen and the company never seen the money until it was far to late and the company went bust .

IMO whyte has pretty much done the same with us with the promise of money yet failing to deliver with the 5 mill upfront and more if ally needed .

So that's shows that he has made false promises in the past and I unfortunately I think will that will only continue in the future

He has now said he won't appeal the tax case if unsuccessful after saying only yesterday to the RST that he would .

He has now promised £20 million investment by 2016 and that we will have funds to spend inJanuary , tbh I don't believe him

IMO , you are far from being in the Minority , I also having read the share holders circular sent out months back , which I might say none of ( or very little of ) has happened .

I have being saying cleary since his takeover that I totally fail to understand why anyone with a business head would take over a company with the amount of tax debt currentley being sought by HMRC , there could only ever be two reasons , the first being should the case be lost that the funds to pay are available ( I think we can reasonably assume this is not the case ) the second is Knowing that your are the single biggest shareholder and your company having cleared the bank debt , outside of the HMRC , you are the single biggest creditor and have protect your own interests should administration be the end result .

I also before the deal was done voiced my concerns regarding the varied companies that he was involved in or owned ( all info on his directorships is/was available on companies house for a nominal fee).

I felt then and feel now that the plan was always to take us in to administration ,alongside this no one that has berated me over the time has been able to explain why the old board ( when voicing concerns re the deal ) were not listen to By SDM . Yes I also feel SDM should be standing up and explaining why he agreed to sell 1, for a £1.00 2, To Whyte when due dilligence surely must have cast some shadows on standing of Whyte and his cronies.

[bluepeter 5,627]

You are not in the minority.

There are some serious blind faith issues around Whyte, but it is patently obvious, he does not have the money.

None of the curernt tax situation is his fault, however grave concerns were raised by Rangers men on the board at the time about his credability.

Time will tell, but only a fool thinks all this is some sort of conspiracy to derail our title challenge.

I've only read two posts into this thread, and they're both ridiculous. I take it you're talking about the "Rangers men" who contributed to that muck-raking documentary which was clear in its aim to harm Rangers last night? They should never be allowed anywhere near Ibrox again (not that I think they'd ever be back anyway). I genuinely am amazed at "Rangers' number 1 fan"'s behaviour with regard to Whyte, from start to finish.

OP - Whyte has invested more than £5m in the playing squad, as he said he would, so the whole premise of this thread is wrong.

[TheLawMan 6,240]

I have not stated that he has placed £11.7m in our bank account, therefore not sure why I would be asked to prove such a thing. The proof I suppose will be in the financial statements, although our next one will only cover the period up to June, so it may even be the mid-term accounts or next years accounts before this can be verified? That said, any money deposited into our account will simply increase the debt the club owes to Whyte/'The Rangers Group'.

I don't have the circular infront of me, although believe there was a clause that said failure to adhere to these promises would result in the current debt being waived immediately which would be very foolish as at the moment he is the club's main creditor, a position he has already stated is very important in terms of how the club reacts to any negative result in the tax case.

The point I was making was in terms of people's attitude/understanding as to how the club should be run. We have just emerged from the previous tenure of being beholden to an owner/benefactor and it nearly crippled the club (still could given the tax case!) and a lot of people want to fall in to the exact same trap with Whyte, demanding he (not Rangers) spend money. We have to implement a self sustaining business model!

You said he had invested the £5 million in the playing squad. In order for this to be categorically true then he would have to paid the £5 million into our account. Thus would be on top of the other £6.7 million promised.

Some people don't realize that him authorizing these new contracts does not mean he has invested the money on them. To do so, there has to be a distinct separate transaction for the money.

[HeHaw 513]

It was more than 5 million he promised, that was his initial promise.

Are you seriously telling me after the shambles of our transfer dealings he has the money?

To be fair to Ally he made some shrewd buys in Goian, Boca and for me the trump card Mackay.

However that doesnt deflect from what was one of the most shambolic transfer windows I have ever seen.

We have won fuck all yet and are out of Europe, put out the CL by a team that got pumped 4-1 at home by some fucking mechanic team from fuck knows where.

If he had put the money up straight away we would be playing in the CL, I have no doubts about this.

A pish poor mhank team is papering over the cracks big time. If we win the league this year then I'll start to belive in CW, until then I am entitled to be suspicious.

That Piss poor team, is the team that won us the title last year. It isnt his fault players never fucking turned up and played. He has invested more than 5 million into Rangers and has given us some financial security.

Would you rather we had the old Regime? The regime that in one month told us " Aye we have no money, so were planning on punting our and the leagues top goal goalscorer for a poxy 400k because we badly need that money"

then...

2 months later tell us "We have 25million we could use if we get the club"

They cunts from the last regime fucked us big time, majority of them were taking more £ p/m that our highest earning first teamers yet did absolutely fuck all.

How can CW give proof of his finances? Would you want him to spunk 3mill on David Goodwillie? Would that have made you happy?

I am happy with our current squad, infact for the first few years we have first teamers who are being challenged for a spot minus a striker.

We also have 2transfer windows. If he spent all of this years budget in August you would be questioning his finances come Christmas.