The choice between Div3 & English Conference?

[Eric_Caldow 60]

difference is i could waste a few hours, searching UEFA website and show you proof.

you could search forever to see where it says you can, and find fuck all.

and by the way were Scottish, kinda like to keep it that way

No you couldn't.

[AlCapone 7,678]

well thats what i am asking for, so go ahead.

Cardiff, Swansea, Berwick, Gretna. To name a few, there are many more.

ironic from you.

LOL, did you really say that?

[AlCapone 7,678]

I can understand peoples resentment of this kind of thread as its been touted to death. However...

Is it not the case that UEFA's main objection to Rangers moving south is that there is a viable league in Scotland. I think we can now argue that there isn't a viable league for Rangers in scotland as we're being excluded and in being excluded causing the death of the game and turning the scottish leagues into the level of the welsh ones.

So don't be so down on these threads, the goal posts have moved considerably since UEFA first objected.

First of all UEFA only allow clubs to play cross border if there is no professional league in the team applyings home country, viable is a subjective word so forget about that. A team based in Scotland can only appy to join the Scottish Leagues, I havent seen anything to suggest we cant apply for the Scottish Leagues yet. UEFA will consider an application for a team to play in a different country if both the FA's involved (ie Engand and Scotland) support the move. So hands up who thinks the SFA will - A, Not allwo Rangers access to the Scottish systems B, Rhegan will support our move to England

[Ricky_ 893]

First of all UEFA only allow clubs to play cross border if there is no professional league in the team applyings home country, viable is a subjective word so forget about that. A team based in Scotland can only appy to join the Scottish Leagues, I havent seen anything to suggest we cant apply for the Scottish Leagues yet. UEFA will consider an application for a team to play in a different country if both the FA's involved (ie Engand and Scotland) support the move. So hands up who thinks the SFA will - A, Not allwo Rangers access to the Scottish systems B, Rhegan will support our move to England

You ever going to back any of this up? It's all speculative, and each case is decided upon, on it's idividual merits. Their is absolutely no reason to state that you categorically know with 100% certaintity the move would be blocked by FIFA.

I do agree that both FA's backing the move would make it far more likely to gain acceptance and would be unlikely to proceed otherwise. But in my opinion, i don't think it's overly outrageous for either us or the scum across the city to put forward proposals to both the SFA and the EFL which suggests it would be to everyones benefit if Rangers & Celtic moved out the league. It's pretty much been proven now that the SPL model is a failing one, or financially unsustainable as the Raith chairman put it. It was a flawed set-up that was built around the commercial value OldFirm competing for the title and recent events have rendered the league not fit for purpose.

Scotland will always be incapable of allowing clubs the size of Rangers & Celtic to reach thier full potential as it doesn't accomodate clubs that size, and the Scottish game will only suffer as long as they are around, as there is no competition for the other teams, no opportunity for them to grow, and no excitement or product for the fans who coudl only ever realise any excitement from the game by finishing 3rd. The SPL vote last week was a reflection of this, the clubs did not vote out of sporting hypocrisy, but they voted on the basis that finally the had an opportunity to remove at least 1 half of the Old Firm. If they had the chance to remove CFC, they would take that, and finally Scotland would have a Premier division that makes for a reasonable sporting contest with a healthy exciting future.

[AlCapone 7,678]

You ever going to back any of this up? It's all speculative, and each case is decided upon, on it's idividual merits. Their is absolutely no reason to state that you categorically know with 100% certaintity the move would be blocked by FIFA.

I do agree that both FA's backing the move would make it far more likely to gain acceptance and would be unlikely to proceed otherwise. But in my opinion, i don't think it's overly outrageous for either us or the scum across the city to put forward proposals to both the SFA and the EFL which suggests it would be to everyones benefit if Rangers & Celtic moved out the league. It's pretty much been proven now that the SPL model is a failing one, or financially unsustainable as the Raith chairman put it. It was a flawed set-up that was built around the commercial value OldFirm competing for the title and recent events have rendered the league not fit for purpose.

Scotland will always be incapable of allowing clubs the size of Rangers & Celtic to reach thier full potential as it doesn't accomodate clubs that size, and the Scottish game will only suffer as long as they are around, as there is no competition for the other teams, no opportunity for them to grow, and no excitement or product for the fans who coudl only ever realise any excitement from the game by finishing 3rd. The SPL vote last week was a reflection of this, the clubs did not vote out of sporting hypocrisy, but they voted on the basis that finally the had an opportunity to remove at least 1 half of the Old Firm. If they had the chance to remove CFC, they would take that, and finally Scotland would have a Premier division that makes for a reasonable sporting contest with a healthy exciting future.

First of all its UEFA not FIFA that need to approve it. Its not speculative, its been discussed on here more times that I've had hot dinners. For anyone to move to another countries league you need first of all the approval of both the home countries FA along with the approval of the FA of the country you want to move to. Both FA's then need to plead the case to UEFA who then make a decision based on the criteria for a move, to date no club has been allowed to move just becasue they fancy it...and never will. If you need someone to explain the reasons why the wont allow it due to clubs fancying it then quite bluntly I'm going to go and pop my head in the oven.

To cite the Welsh clubs as an example quite frankly shows how much you understand the subject.

So why dont you go and do some research and see what clubs have moved leagues just because they fancied it since the formation of UEFA in 1954, let us know what you find. Keep in mind at least 80% of the clubs in Europe would rather play in another league for 'financial' reasons so could you report back and say why none of them have moved??

[gersandy 594]

We would have to start on the bottom rung. What was formerly known as the ryman league. 8 tiers down from the championship.

[Rfc#1. 1,877]

I had thought at one time there was a possibility. If we could prove the punishments were over the top and like the transfer ban illegal. Show precedents where other clubs in admin were not treated as badly as us maybe we would have a case to move. Being victimised by your FA who then try to stop you going to the 3rd for the sake of money shows their total lack of integrity. The tweet favourited by Rhegan about jigg being hanged. All show we're being treated abysmally. But I still don't think we'd get in. We financially carry the SPL, they're not gonna let us go.

[BeautifulSeas 10]

It looks like Kettering are about to go bust so that could provide an opening...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18741745

[Ricky_ 893]

First of all its UEFA not FIFA that need to approve it. Its not speculative, its been discussed on here more times that I've had hot dinners. For anyone to move to another countries league you need first of all the approval of both the home countries FA along with the approval of the FA of the country you want to move to. Both FA's then need to plead the case to UEFA who then make a decision based on the criteria for a move, to date no club has been allowed to move just becasue they fancy it...and never will. If you need someone to explain the reasons why the wont allow it due to clubs fancying it then quite bluntly I'm going to go and pop my head in the oven.

To cite the Welsh clubs as an example quite frankly shows how much you understand the subject.

So why dont you go and do some research and see what clubs have moved leagues just because they fancied it since the formation of UEFA in 1954, let us know what you find. Keep in mind at least 80% of the clubs in Europe would rather play in another league for 'financial' reasons so could you report back and say why none of them have moved??

I cited the Welsh clubs as an example because..... they play in a foriegn league because "they fancy it"

Seriously though, i'm not stupid, Cardiff and Swansea have been playing in the English set up for nearly a century and largely on the basis that at the time of their inception their wasn't relevant competition for them to compete against. We can make the same arguement, obviously to a less extreme extent, however that mayb change now that 1. We've not been granted access to the SPL & 2. If clubs begin to fold or become "part-time/semi-professional" we have a much stronger case.

another point to be raised by this is that technically the "country" is Britain, not Scotland, giving us the right to argue we have as much right to compete in an Enlgish set-up as Cardiff or Swansea. This is obviously different from, say, Porto trying to compete in the more attractive Spanish set-up.

And finally, it could be argued that the numerous Welsh sides competing within the English set-up means hat technically, the league's are British, not English. They could only be described as "prodominantly English".

Their is enough juice & meat in the above arguements & precedents to make a solid case for the move.

Another point that may be worth mentioning is that the SPL negotiated with the SFL to "breakaway" from them and created the current SPL set-up we have now, in order to rebrand the top division and icnrease commercial value. As part fo the deal they pay the SFL £2m which is filtered down through the clubs. In my opinion, it could also make commercial sense to do a similar deal with the OF moving out of the league. It drives the commercial value of the Championship/Premiership up by bringing in millions more fans to the already monsterous English leagues, and it would allow the Clubs in Scotland to grow and create a respectable competition. Money could then be filtered back down Scotland.

[GOAT 30,449]

UEFA dont allow clubs based in one country to play in another countries league just because they fancy it.

Some amount of balloons on here.

Why do people keep hitting us with the UEFA line?

UEFA last night insisted they wouldn't block any invite for Celtic and Rangers to join the English Premier League.

European football's governing body has previously stated clubs can't play in leagues outside their own country.

But yesterday UEFA director of communications William Gaillard insisted the matter could be decided by the leagues and associations involved.

He said: "We wouldn't take a position on such a proposal."

His stance is a boost to the Old Firm's hopes of moving down south.

Bolton chairman Phil Gartside has floated a plan to include the Glasgow giants in a two-tier Premier League but the idea has to overcome a number of obstacles.

The Premier League, FA, SFA, Scottish League and Football League would all have to give their approval.

Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are likely to be against the plan as it would affect their income.

Others such as Aston Villa, Spurs and Everton may also have doubts.

Mid-table clubs might also struggle to cope with a drop in TV money.

A Premier League spokesman said: "We haven't seen any proposal and therefore are unable to comment."

[GOAT 30,449]

If we could join any level of England tomorrow, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

We're a Premier League club, we're far bigger than anything outwith the top 6 in England, far bigger.

[Ricky_ 893]

Why do people keep hitting us with the UEFA line?

UEFA last night insisted they wouldn't block any invite for Celtic and Rangers to join the English Premier League.

European football's governing body has previously stated clubs can't play in leagues outside their own country.

But yesterday UEFA director of communications William Gaillard insisted the matter could be decided by the leagues and associations involved.

He said: "We wouldn't take a position on such a proposal."

His stance is a boost to the Old Firm's hopes of moving down south.

Bolton chairman Phil Gartside has floated a plan to include the Glasgow giants in a two-tier Premier League but the idea has to overcome a number of obstacles.

The Premier League, FA, SFA, Scottish League and Football League would all have to give their approval.

Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal are likely to be against the plan as it would affect their income.

Others such as Aston Villa, Spurs and Everton may also have doubts.

Mid-table clubs might also struggle to cope with a drop in TV money.

A Premier League spokesman said: "We haven't seen any proposal and therefore are unable to comment."

got a link to the above article GOAT?

[edtheger 6]

in my opinion we have 2 choices.1 we bend over and let the sfa rape us for 3/5 years with illegal sanctions that we have been blackmailed into accepting (and these will include stripping of titles you can be sure of that)or 2 we refuse any sanctions and sfa dont accept us as a member club.we are then free to apply to the conference. and i think this is our chance to get out of the corrupt scottish league

[hemdale1873 167]

UEFA dont allow clubs based in one country to play in another countries league just because they fancy it.

Mate that is mHedia spoon fed tosh.

Gretna played in both Scotland and England in the 2000's.

They were a member of the English FA for almost 60 years before joining the Scottish fa in 2002.

They played in both the Scottish and English cups in the space of 12 years. They played Bolton in the English fa cup in a live T.V. game in 1994 and in 2006 they played in the Scottish cup final and went into Europe the next season representing Scotland after having been a member of the English fa for about 90% of their existence.

There is nothing to stop Rangers playing in England if we really wanted to, cant understand why we dont even try at least.

[nachothelegend 1,932]

pish

can we not block these shitey move south threads.

NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN

Could we apply for the Irish League then? Would that suit you.

Wgat if the sfa knock us back it could be a possability.Then what?

[rm1972 3]

irish fa northern ireland..

[AlCapone 7,678]

Mate that is mHedia spoon fed tosh.

Gretna played in both Scotland and England in the 2000's.

They were a member of the English FA for almost 60 years before joining the Scottish fa in 2002.

They played in both the Scottish and English cups in the space of 12 years. They played Bolton in the English fa cup in a live T.V. game in 1994 and in 2006 they played in the Scottish cup final and went into Europe the next season representing Scotland after having been a member of the English fa for about 90% of their existence.

There is nothing to stop Rangers playing in England if we really wanted to, cant understand why we dont even try at least.

Gretna joined the English FA in 1947 which was prior to the formation of UEFA in 1954. UEFA gave an amnesty to all clubs playing in different countries prior to the formation of UEFA and the era of the modern game to allow them to continue where they were. As Gretna are based in Scotland then they are allowed to retun to their home country FA which they then took advantage of, this example has no relevance to Rangers as Rangers are looking to move to another country. When Gretna went into liquidation as they are a Scottish Club they were only allowed to apply for membership of the Scottish Leagues

[GOAT 30,449]

got a link to the above article GOAT?

http://www.<No links to this website>/sport/2009/04/21/uefa-opens-way-for-old-firm-to-make-switch-to-england-86908-21294075/

[southcoastbear 1,639]

If we have to start right at the bottom why don't we try to register our under 19 team until they reach a decent level then we could transfer our main squad and nothing sfa could do about it and play our young players in scotland to gain experience.

[novosalegend 2]

Colwyn bay are in conference north and they are from Wales,

[bill moles 0]

you're the 1 stating that UEFA would not allow, so prove it, back up your opinion. put up or shut up.

There are lots of Welsh clubs in English leagues ??

[Ricky_ 893]

There are lots of Welsh clubs in English leagues ??

Cardiff & Swansea are the big 2, but there are a fair few other welsh teams kicking about conference level and below.

[Shetland 76]

Really sick of people bringing this up, it won't happen.

[Misteral 2,932]

Wherever we play next season it won't be glamorous. Where we are playing in 3-5 years time is what is most important so the 'debate' is legitimate I think. For me starting in level 4 or 5 in England is infinitetly more attractive than SFL3 in the long term . But I cant see it happening. Anyway, whatever does happen I'm quite excited by this rebuilding challenge. It should interesting and hopefully enjoyable.

[gersandy 594]

We cant just expect to straight into the conference. We'd have to start ftom the VERY bottom. And that would mean playing teams not far up from sunday league.