Vanguard Bears - just who are they?

[outlaw69uk 123]

I think that the Vanguard Bears a great credit to the club and do give us a voice we've been lacking in recent years, it's the dedication to the club that makes me proud to be a Rangers fan.

However maybe a VB could respond to this, do you not think a better way of "rallying the troops" so to speak would be to be more inclusive and tolerant of Bears who don't share the same religious/political views, i can't help but feel the VB lot would be twice as powerful and effective if they gave the chance to others to help fight the cause.

I can't help but feel if Gogzy's statement had been different he'd already be signed up to VB by now but funnily enough a good bear is being left out.

On it now, and just my opinion

At the risk of mentioning it, one problem the support has as a whole, is a certain person who refuses to "join in". Regardless of anyone elses view. For me, and many others, thats the most divisive issue we have.

As far as the more inclusive thing goes, people can get on, but, its a case of actually meeting someone, which if you think about it, shouldnt really be hard to do, especially if based in Scotland, as there is (essentially) a home game every other week. Doesnt take too much effort? I honestly dont believe that its other peoples religious or political views that are an issue at all. I have fairly different views on a lot of things with Gaz92, but I have no real issue with him at all. I like Gogzy, always have

I think its simply "sniping" type things that do it. I think its understandable as well, a lot of work is put into things, certainly more than people generally know, so, silly sniping is a wind up, and achieves nothing but bad feeling. Constructive criticism, especially if its a two way street, can ONLY improve things, both from an understanding perspective, and, the quality of output from us. in my opinion

The power comes from everyone, I dont think its any surprise that the name is more common nowadays since the RFFF/Working Group etc as its a large combination of supporters across all types.

[Devlin 222]

We are a PUL website, Devlin, we don't hide from this title, it's who we are. We were set up to defend the traditions of Rangers, a club steeped in a Protestant, Unionist and Loyalist tradition, whether people like it or not; it's not for me to try a force my views down your throat.

The fact, we work closely with Rangers tells us we must be doing something right.

And as I said across the road earlier, each site contributes their own worth to the Rangers support. All as Rangers fans. No one better than the other.

I never even implied VB forced views down people's throats, i'm just saying that don't you think the Rangers support would be better represented if it actually was the whole of the Rangers supports voice that was being heard?

[Devlin 222]

On it now, and just my opinion

At the risk of mentioning it, one problem the support has as a whole, is a certain person who refuses to "join in". Regardless of anyone elses view. For me, and many others, thats the most divisive issue we have.

As far as the more inclusive thing goes, people can get on, but, its a case of actually meeting someone, which if you think about it, shouldnt really be hard to do, especially if based in Scotland, as there is (essentially) a home game every other week. Doesnt take too much effort? I honestly dont believe that its other peoples religious or political views that are an issue at all. I have fairly different views on a lot of things with Gaz92, but I have no real issue with him at all. I like Gogzy, always have

I think its simply "sniping" type things that do it. I think its understandable as well, a lot of work is put into things, certainly more than people generally know, so, silly sniping is a wind up, and achieves nothing but bad feeling. Constructive criticism, especially if its a two way street, can ONLY improve things, both from an understanding perspective, and, the quality of output from us. in my opinion

The power comes from everyone, I dont think its any surprise that the name is more common nowadays since the RFFF/Working Group etc as its a large combination of supporters across all types.

Good reply mate, thanks for taking the time, can see you're a bit busy

As i've said i credit the VB a lot it's just there's a lot of amazing Rangers fans that don't share the same religious/political views and it's a shame that they can't join forces with the VB, well technically they could join up but i have got the impression from a fair few VB posters on here that if you don't share the same views you're not as good a Rangers fan, which is absurd. Not saying all of the VB is like that either.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I've specifically went back and answered your questions, although I'm not sure it will add much.

I still don't know where you're getting it from that I want to join. I've challenged the criteria that is needed to be part of the organisation. Why does that mean I want to join up?

You have, the not liking the answers part gave me a laugh

I see where you are coming from with that, but, the parts you read hear and twitter, are the outputs, and, as they are on other sites such as this, you can still feedback/discuss, often with a member or two. It is less football orientated I agree, there are many sites that cover the football, we tend to concentrate on the "other stuff", and, generally issues relating to the club. Everyone and their dog have been kicking us, someone needs to kick back.

The extra dimensions is an interesting concept, its a big part of why i asked what your expectations were, as, I sometimes get the feeling that people think its a goup of clones, someone says something, the rest all agree, end of discussion, and, couldnt be further from the truth. The reason I said HD owners, is, at the end of the day, we have Rangers in common, but also the PUL aspect as was mentioned, some more than others. So, its not surprising that people with similar interests arrived in the same place.

People arent pre-excluded for their views, but they may stand out, or feel out of place if they are completely opposite and that wouldnt be good for either party. Like i said when I replied to Devlin, I have a very different viewpoint to you, but, I have no issue with you and you are perfectly civil, thats generally how it goes. I would honestly say, the simple thing is to introduce yourself to someone pre match sometime? Have a beer and a chat, and, you would get a feel for whether or not it would be for you. Cant really say fairer?

[outlaw69uk 123]

Just stack them neatly in the usual spot and we'll get some of the troops to shift them tomorrow.

Up to our knees, at times, eh? Literally.

Wait till he has to get the commemorative tattoo for that one

[Gaz92 966]

As far as the more inclusive thing goes, people can get on, but, its a case of actually meeting someone, which if you think about it, shouldnt really be hard to do, especially if based in Scotland, as there is (essentially) a home game every other week. Doesnt take too much effort? I honestly dont believe that its other peoples religious or political views that are an issue at all. I have fairly different views on a lot of things with Gaz92, but I have no real issue with him at all.

I will apologise now as I know you're not an official part of the Vanguard Bears', so it's not as if you're saying anything on behalf of the group officially, so it's more really been a conversation and you've been good enough to amuse me with it! Just one more thing for tonight (I had no intention of staying up this late, the powers of the internet!) I don't believe it is true that it's not my religious/political views that are the problem. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that part of being a VB was being a member of a PUL, or at least sympathise with them, I don't, and take no interest in them at all (another subject for another day, no doubt!), so therefore surely my political viewpoint does come into play as I therefore wouldn't be accepted.

I can't help but feel this is pretty backwards, and what I personally believe is that these sort of policies are something that should be left behind when it comes to bringing the club forward. Political/religious backgrounds shouldn't be forgotten (and all should be accepted) but they should be put to one side when it comes to bringing the club forward and adding to the great institution we already are.

[YoungCitizen 79]

I never even implied VB forced views down people's throats, i'm just saying that don't you think the Rangers support would be better represented if it actually was the whole of the Rangers supports voice that was being heard?

Re-read my post, I was saying I wouldn't force my views.

As for a united front, thats what Rangers Unite are, no? Am I not correct in saying they represent VB, FF, Gersnet, RSA, RFFF, RTIDNI, Copland Road and supporters clubs?

[TravelingWilBEARy 4,319]

Re-read my post, I was saying I wouldn't force my views.

As for a united front, thats what Rangers Unite are, no? Am I not correct in saying they represent VB, FF, Gersnet, RSA, RFFF, RTIDNI, Colpland Road and supporters clubs?

Rangers Unite represent FF? From the thread I saw on FF about it, I wouldn't say they did at all.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Good reply mate, thanks for taking the time, can see you're a bit busy

As i've said i credit the VB a lot it's just there's a lot of amazing Rangers fans that don't share the same religious/political views and it's a shame that they can't join forces with the VB, well technically they could join up but i have got the impression from a fair few VB posters on here that if you don't share the same views you're not as good a Rangers fan, which is absurd. Not saying all of the VB is like that either.

Its ok, its nice to be in demand

The "not as good a fan" thing, is one of those irritating internet catchphrases, does my head. Its also generally used in a "are you saying I'm not" kind of way. I think a big difference on there is that we do know each other, real names etc, so, thats really different from your average forum. You can actually rely on people if you get in a bit of a jam, and, some of the things I have seen happen on there makes me proud. Not always big things, little personal things. Its a group of friends, sure, its growing over time, which is nice, but, its still the same feel.

Joining forces is simple, its happening all the time lately, as I mentioned, via the club, the RFFF, working group etc. The upside is, more and more of the support are actually coming together. I agree, lots of amazing fans everywhere. Different sites, different groups, different bloggers all cover different aspects, we do one of those very well, and its simply "fighting back". The worst part for me, is when it involves arguments with other bears, usually over absolutely nothing. I would much much rather spend my energy fighting back against those out there trying to damage the club, and often get confused (and angry) at this kind of thing as, it baffles me why you would want to fight with another Bear. If an article goes up, and people think it could be improved, and made better, shit, tell! Thats the key.

[YoungCitizen 79]

Gaz, can I just quickly pick you up on your last post, and generalise it for others looking in.

The Vanguard Bears are a group of PUL minded Rangers fans who were set up to defend the traditions of the club they love.

We are not the driving force, or sole voice of the fans, and we are more than aware of this.

Vanguard Bears is known for its Loyalist stand; the badge and articles are alone a massive indication. So if your not a Loyalist why would you join? Plenty of Rangers forums out on the internet to chose from. Plenty of good ones too which will suit your personal views.

[YoungCitizen 79]

Rangers Unite represent FF? From the thread I saw on FF about it, I wouldn't sat they did at all.

Perhaps they don't, I'm not aware of the politics on FF if I'm honest.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Perhaps they don't, I'm not aware of the politics on FF if I'm honest.

I dont think they do actually, there must be a cheeky/sarky comment about untiy/divisive in there somewhere

But actually yes, the RU thing was something I forgot about

[Gaz92 966]

Gaz, can I just quickly pick you up on your last post, and generalise it for others looking in.

The Vanguard Bears are a group of PUL minded Rangers fans who were set up to defend the traditions of the club we love. We are not the driving force, or sole voice of the fans, and we are more than aware of this.

Vanguard Bears is known for its Loyalist stand; the badge and articles are alone a massive indication. So if your not a Loyalist why would you join? Plenty of Rangers forums out on the internet to chose from. Many good ones too which will suit your views.

To be fair, coming into this, I didn't know it was a group for Loyalist Rangers fans. They're just a group who I see more and more of, although I did see the badge on the Shankill Rd on a trip to Belfast recently. I could have certainly taken a guess that they leaned towards that stance, I suppose.

I just gave some opinions on the group, as they have become somewhat of a prominent supporters group - especially over the internet, and therefore I thought I'd perhaps mention how it could be therefore a bit more accessible, which has then lead onto some good discussion.

[YoungCitizen 79]

To be fair, coming into this, I didn't know it was a group for Loyalist Rangers fans. They're just a group who I see more and more of, although I did see the badge on the Shankill Rd on a trip to Belfast recently. I could have certainly taken a guess that they leaned towards that stance, I suppose.

I just gave some opinions on the group, as they have become somewhat of a prominent supporters group - especially over the internet, and therefore I thought I'd perhaps mention how it could be therefore a bit more accessible, which has then lead onto some good discussion.

I will put my neck on the line here and say I speak for the whole of VB when I say criticism is not always bad, and if constructive, is welcomed.

What we could do without is constant bitching, shit-stirring and sly comments from certain individuals.

Don't like us? Fair enough. Just avoid posting and ruining thread after thread.

[Ben10 2,272]

Many of the wrong people are involved now. The predictable power trips familiar with the rst/ff campsite are inevitable.

[outlaw69uk 123]

I will put my neck on the line here and say I speak for the whole of VB when I say criticism is not always bad, and if constructive, is welcomed.

What we could do without is constant bitching, shit-stirring and sly comments from certain individuals.

Don't like us? Fair enough. Just avoid posting and ruining thread after thread.

Sounds good to me

[Gaz92 966]

I will put my neck on the line here and say I speak for the whole of VB when I say criticism is not always bad, and if constructive, is welcomed.

What we could do without is constant bitching, shit-stirring and sly comments from certain individuals.

Don't like us? Fair enough. Just avoid posting and ruining thread after thread.

Well I'd be worried by any group that didn't accept criticism?

If the last line is aimed at me though, it's quite clear that criticism isn't accepted, as to my knowledge, I've not ruined any thread?

[YoungCitizen 79]

Many of the wrong people are involved now. The predictable power trips familiar with the rst/ff campsite are inevitable.

As many members have said on this thread earlier, we are not above anyone else in the Rangers support. In fact, I'd say the majority are posters on many other forums outside VB.

[Gaz92 966]

Many of the wrong people are involved now. The predictable power trips familiar with the rst/ff campsite are inevitable.

Who?

[YoungCitizen 79]

Well I'd be worried by any group that didn't accept criticism?

If the last line is aimed at me though, it's quite clear that criticism isn't accepted, as to my knowledge, I've not ruined any thread?

It wasn't actually, no.

[YoungCitizen 79]

Who?

A dig at VB, I presumed.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Many of the wrong people are involved now. The predictable power trips familiar with the rst/ff campsite are inevitable.

Wrong people involved in what? A bit too vague for me that one I'm afraid

[The Educator 1,572]

Rangers are more than a club.

Its an Institution a way of life.

I think you should say all of what you said above to any Londonderry man women and child who cant even wear their beloved football teams top in their city centre.

Rangers were formed as a Scottish football club and as with most clubs to a larger part of their support is “a way of life”.

Rangers are a sporting institution some would like to make them into some sort of standard bearer for their religious/political agendas. But at the end of the day they are a football club and are known throughout the world as such.

I believe that Ireland’s problems should be sorted out by the Irish without any outsiders chipping in their ten bobs worth. So I’ll practice what I preach on that one.

Who am I? I am a protestant Scot who will be voting no in 2014. I am ex-C.of S, their message was watered down too much over the last thirty years for me to stay. Funnily enough they saw me more as a hawk than a dove.

I agree that the majority of the loudmouths who are attacking the club have a political/religious agenda, Will I stoop to their level, no I see myself as being above that. They will be defeated in their war against Rangers because in the end the truth will always come out in the end. As the saying goes, “you can fool some of the people all of the time, you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”.

Those who have conspired against the club will get theirs, quite possibly a lot sooner than they realise. In their attempts to bring down rangers I am convinced that all they will bring about is the destruction of their own club. As for the political side of things I’ll choose to fight that battle through the ballot box, not through the name of Rangers.

How do I feel about the VB’s, well I’ve read the stuff that has been posted on RM since I joined a few weeks back and some of it I have agreed wholehearted with, other parts fall foul of my view of what Rangers represent. That aside they have made some excellent moves to get information out there at a time when the legitimate media are operating less than even handily. Btw, with DD seemingly seeking to buy into media companies don’t expect that to change too soon.

Essentially we have many common views, but the differences in our definitions of what Rangers are would make it impossible for me to apply to join them or for them to accept me a prospective member.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

Yes , debate is healthy

but given that almost 100% of the board believe in the Union , The Crown and the Protestant Faith, most agitators don't last long

so many believe ? then why is the kirk dying?

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

I will put my neck on the line here and say I speak for the whole of VB when I say criticism is not always bad, and if constructive, is welcomed.

What we could do without is constant bitching, shit-stirring and sly comments from certain individuals.

Don't like us? Fair enough. Just avoid posting and ruining thread after thread.

your last point - some vb posters take any criticism as an attempt to ruin a thread!!!