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Revenge - on whom - by whom and who benefits


Bluepeter9

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OK we win the BTC and it has brought both a feelgood factor and hightened the desire for revenge, but this begs the question revenge by who, onwhom and to who's benefit.

Lets get the 'Tin Hat On' comment out of the way first of all.

HMRC were perfectly within their rights to challenge the scheme and have it go to court, in the same we we were perfectly entitled to defend ourselves. Tax law, especially ontax -avoidence is often complex and often comes down to very technical details. We won and so our scheme was legal, but most canagree it seems to have been a close run thing and with a lot of technical arguments for and against. Winning the case was important for us fans, it prevents the cheat claims, and destroys the case for title stripping etc. (That doesn't mean some wont want to pursue it but it drives a big hole in any 'case'). I dont think, just based on HMRC losing in court, that there is any way, any one could sue HMRC for doing what they did unless.......

There seems to be a case (but BTC proves seeming to be a case, and proving a case, are different!) that there were leaks of information to various parties from within the HMRC and if someone can garner evidence that the people (alledgedly!!) carrying out these leaks were also instrumental in the decision to pursue Rangers there may be a case to sue HMRC - but I suspect the best we could hope for would be a few sackings for either leaking the documents or incompetent decision making. While that would help the revenge needs its small beer indeed.

The RTC bloggers can be pursued - and I am sure they will be but again all we can hope for is to blacken a few names, extract a few ££, and try to expose their motivations - again slightly worthy in revenge terms but small shite.

Many newspaper journalists reported the story, including the BBC, but while near the edge they were reporting stories and positions - so again what is gained by sueing them - very little just small time revenge and while we have them hung, drawn and quartered I suspect proving anything material would be difficult.

Whyte - well I believe he was just a fraudster and the legal system will tighten a 'virtual' noose round his neck and bring him to justice but in the fullness of time - buy there are NO reprecussions on him with regards to the BTC.

Ditto, Lloyds, Murray et. al. the BTC existed - we had to make a contingent liability for it - it prevented an orderly sale, or even an orderly administration once shyster Shyte did his damage.

The SPL and SFA proved incompetent in their handling of this crisis - and heads and regime must come there, not just because of our treatment but so many other management incompetencies - and that change is coming. Can we 'sue' them for anything ? I suspect not.

So we are left with Charles Green and his consortium, Division 3 for the moment and the worst (hopefully) is well behind us. It is just a matter of corporate law that everything to do with BTC,Whyte etc is left behind with 'Oldco'. There are a few loose ends to be tied up (SPL investigations etc.), and as Rangers fans we want some revenge but I cant see ANY way of turning back the clock nor of changing what has happened. It may be a slightly bitter pill to swallow but all we can do is move Onwards and Upwards, rebuilding the sporting institution that is Rangers!

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I do see where you are coming from but I want revenge!!! It doesnt matter if it is a paltry amount we sue for in monies, it may just be enough to ruin some of them. Names blackened and sackings - yes I want that. I want Whyte jailed. I want a full investigation into the conduct of HMRC, I want to know who the driving force was! I want to know the political influence that was exerted on HMRC to follow this through - I have my own suspicions!

I want people ruined over this

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I do see where you are coming from but I want revenge!!! It doesnt matter if it is a paltry amount we sue for in monies, it may just be enough to ruin some of them. Names blackened and sackings - yes I want that. I want Whyte jailed. I want a full investigation into the conduct of HMRC, I want to know who the driving force was! I want to know the political influence that was exerted on HMRC to follow this through - I have my own suspicions!

I want people ruined over this

i'd write that in a letter tae santa, santa never lets us down :21:

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For me its not revenge it has always been about the truth and I feel alot of the truth has still been masked. I would like to see justice served on those that lied and tried to bring our club down for what it seem to be over nothing. CW I now believe he is the one the killed the club but I still feel HMRC and others had a big part to play in this including the media and the way SFA and SPL handled the whole affair over. Revenge NO Justice YES

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I don't agree with you that HMRC had every right to chase us over the scheme as they've never won an EBT case yet (I think)They've wasted taxpayers money chasing fools gold not to mention knocking back a few million in an out of court settlement.

For us, I doubt very much whether there will be any monetary compensation but I want the truth to come out as to who had a hand in trying to destroy us. After reading Murrays article in the herald he's got his legal team on it already so hopefully something should come out.

I'd like heads should roll from HMRC to SPL and SFA . Bloggers bust, journalists discredited and sacked (that BAFTA returned for the Rangers documentary :rolleyes: ) and Whyte jailed where he belongs

I think the best revenge we will get though is that we will remember and never forget who crossed us and let us down.

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For me its not revenge it has always been about the truth and I feel alot of the truth has still been masked. I would like to see justice served on those that lied and tried to bring our club down for what it seem to be over nothing. CW I now believe he is the one the killed the club but I still feel HMRC and others had a big part to play in this including the media and the way SFA and SPL handled the whole affair over. Revenge NO Justice YES

club never died. Bluenosebrad.
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We have been shafted royally and none of the 'voices' are coming out and saying anything.

The SPL who need sporting integrity have said, and for the rest of my life i'll never get this, absolutely nothing!! nothing !!!! really ? ffs they have enforced illegal embargos on us made us sign a tv deal that helps them just so we could play again. the very same SPL who for five titles would have 'parachuted' us into the 1st division . INTEGRITY MY ARSE

Those fucking clubs - the scum, the dundee scum, the hearts , the sheep and dunfermline and all there fans were all very vocal and clang on to the dream of killing us are their all now fucking invisible.

isn't the same dunfermline and hearts who are now struggling with paying their taxes.

The media still report inaccurate shit, the club dying etc , we never died we are very much alive and kicking.

Sky sports who camped outside our front door for weeks now aren't interested, the bbc seem to take more pride in getting an award for there shitty little 'let's get at rangers ' programmes then do feel shame for harbouring a peadophile.

We should have a new reformation and flog all these bastards for their spins and lies.

Its like living in North flamin Korea where the truth is miles behind the spin.

No surrender

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BP9.. For me.. quite simple. We need to get to the heart of the leaked information and expose all ties implicit and explicit. I am hoping -- of course -- that there will be references to Penn State FC in there somewhere. But.. those who leaked the info need to be in jail.

HMRC? Why did it take so long? Why did they not accept the 10 million? Why? Who urged them on? Again... Any ties to Shame FC? Dr. Reid? Even Desmond? They would have clearly benefited from our 'demise'. A shot at guaranteed CL (qualifying) every year.

For us? The damage was done -- the start of it as Traynor spelled out in his excellent article. We now just need to get on with it.. but our heads -- as always, are held high. (tu)

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MIH lawyers will start the ball rolling re leaked docs etc at HMRC and I hope they are as assidious as they have made out that they will be in the recent press releases. Following that the whole sorry mess will unravel like a ball of string, with (I hope!) some very interesting names appearing.

In the process it will make me and the rest of the gers support feel great though watching them all run for cover...

but who will it benefit? who this shite always benefits - the lawyers.

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Anyone found to have leaked information from HMRC will be sacked. And if they've already left or retired, their pension will be forfeited. Criminal action could also follow for the dissemination of confidential government information.

That apart, I don't see there being much more scope for legal action from the club as, for the most part, the Rangers Tax Case chancer mostly published leaked information which can be defended as "veritas".

In fact, some of the leaks - especially around the time of Whyte's takeover - were of club documents that could only have come from someone connected to Rangers or having dealings with them.

Any other statements could have the defence (in defamation cases) of "fair comment".

Even if there were not, the club would have to prove they had suffered financial loss as a direct result of any of these leaks.

However, I don't think comments on an obsessive fantasists blog would have influenced the actions of HMRC or the deliberations of the FTT (T) tribunal. Or, in fact, Lloyds Bank or even Murray himself.

I state all of this merely from a legal point of view.

Morally, what this RTC guy and his HMRC mole did was indefensible.

I look forward to the day when they are unveiled and shamed.

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I do see where you are coming from but I want revenge!!! It doesnt matter if it is a paltry amount we sue for in monies, it may just be enough to ruin some of them. Names blackened and sackings - yes I want that. I want Whyte jailed. I want a full investigation into the conduct of HMRC, I want to know who the driving force was! I want to know the political influence that was exerted on HMRC to follow this through - I have my own suspicions!

I want people ruined over this

I'm with you Alwaysblue. Some people seem to have forgotten that we nearly didn't have a football club at all. So let's get every b*****d sued and/or banned from Ibrox. Let's make them suffer the pain we suffered. No forgiveness, no charity towards them and definitely No Surrender, WATP.
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Anyone found to have leaked information from HMRC will be sacked. And if they've already left or retired, their pension will be forfeited. Criminal action could also follow for the dissemination of confidential government information.

That apart, I don't see there being much more scope for legal action from the club as, for the most part, the Rangers Tax Case chancer mostly published leaked information which can be defended as "veritas".

In fact, some of the leaks - especially around the time of Whyte's takeover - were of club documents that could only have come from someone connected to Rangers or having dealings with them.

Any other statements could have the defence (in defamation cases) of "fair comment".

Even if there were not, the club would have to prove they had suffered financial loss as a direct result of any of these leaks.

However, I don't think comments on an obsessive fantasists blog would have influenced the actions of HMRC or the deliberations of the FTT (T) tribunal. Or, in fact, Lloyds Bank or even Murray himself.

I state all of this merely from a legal point of view.

Morally, what this RTC guy and his HMRC mole did was indefensible.

I look forward to the day when they are unveiled and shamed.

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Without going too far into it, simply as I can't be arsed arguing with the lurking bastards on here, do you not find it bizarrely coincidental (at the very least) that within a few years of Paedophilia State FC appointing a high-ranking influential government politician, spin-doctor, war-criminal sex-pest (but lets concentrate on the high-ranking influential government politician aspect) as their chairman, Rangers Football Club are given "special treatment" by HMRC, an organisation run by civil-servants, directly accountable to the people John Reid associates with?

John bastard Reid.

Go after John Reid if you want justice.

That bastard should be hanging from a lampost.

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OK we win the BTC and it has brought both a feelgood factor and hightened the desire for revenge, but this begs the question revenge by who, onwhom and to who's benefit........

Sorry mate but Fuck that. We need ot go after and expose every last one of them and try to find who were the people really behind it. I have my suspicions but we need to know otherwise this will not be finished.

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Without going too far into it, simply as I can't be arsed arguing with the lurking bastards on here, do you not find it bizarrely coincidental (at the very least) that within a few years of Paedophilia State FC appointing a high-ranking influential government politician, spin-doctor, war-criminal sex-pest (but lets concentrate on the high-ranking influential government politician aspect) as their chairman, Rangers Football Club are given "special treatment" by HMRC, an organisation run by civil-servants, directly accountable to the people John Reid associates with?

John bastard Reid.

Go after John Reid if you want justice.

That bastard should be hanging from a lampost.

Spot on! (tu)
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Sorry mate but Fuck that. We need ot go after and expose every last one of them and try to find who were the people really behind it. I have my suspicions but we need to know otherwise this will not be finished.

I agree - but to what end? All this talkabout £10's of Milliions in compensation - it aint going to happen, Newco / Oldco decision cant be rolled back all wecan get is some minor retribution on no-names to whom we give more credibility than they are worth.

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