Win or bust for Warburton and Weir

[jim beam 2,188]

We could get hammered on Saturday and lose all the derby games and finish twenty odd points behind them it will make no difference.

As long as we get second it will be good enough for the board and some fans who believe that next season will be different somehow.

[plumbGER 24,518]

18 minutes ago, Easton82 said:

I think our biggest problem is the fact were not taking our chances and finishing teams off. I hope we get a decent striker in come jan as garner ain't the answer as far as I'm concerned that's over £1.5 million wasted! I like the football we play under him but we need goals at the end of it. We were only ever going 2 finish 2nd this season as much as it kills me 2 admit it but I was hoping wed have a good team in place and gelled for a right good challenge nxt season. Will judge him come end of this season hopefully he does some good business in this transfer window as 2 many players in our team have it 2 easy!  

Mon 2 fk m8 sort at text spk oot fs.

Other than that, it's a decent post with some good points.

The last transfer window was a shambles, let's hope wee Frank has identified some good targets and the board will back the manager if he wants to sign them.

 

[globalskana 10]

12 minutes ago, jim beam said:

We could get hammered on Saturday and lose all the derby games and finish twenty odd points behind them it will make no difference.

As long as we get second it will be good enough for the board and some fans who believe that next season will be different somehow.

That's the thing finishing twenty odd points behind them is being generous.  It's much more likely to be 30 and it's entirely possible it could be more (if shit doesn't change come January and I don't think it will).  This is how dire the situation is, it's just not acceptable at all.  We should be within single digits of them even if we don't beat them.  Certainly not facing the very real possibility of 20 behind halfway through the season, that's insane.

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

It used to be said that form goes out of the window at OF games.   And many a time that's been the case.   So you never know.  Maybe on the day the team finds it within itself to engineer a win.  

No matter the result I don't think the game on Saturday will define Warburton's future at Ibrox.    He'll probably hear it loud and clear if it goes very badly on Saturday but I'd still expect the usual post match stuff about learning and so an and each league game has the same 3 point value.

But as we progress through the winter games and into Spring and the sharp end of the season if the consistently inconsistent levels of performance / wins continue and he does not solve the goal scoring problem and does not solve the defensive errors problem then I can see King having a good look at whether Warburton has done enough to justify another season where we risk not providing a step-change improvement in challenging for the title.  If Warburton is not demonstrating that next season is likely to see a vast improvement then why would King let him continue?    More of the same (or more or less the same) next season must absolutely not be on the agenda.    

 

[jim beam 2,188]

22 minutes ago, globalskana said:

That's the thing finishing twenty odd points behind them is being generous.  It's much more likely to be 30 and it's entirely possible it could be more (if shit doesn't change come January and I don't think it will).  This is how dire the situation is, it's just not acceptable at all.  We should be within single digits of them even if we don't beat them.  Certainly not facing the very real possibility of 20 behind halfway through the season, that's insane.

Yes it could easily be thirty points who knows yet.And at the start of the season I fully expected us to challenge them for most of the season and if we did fall away it would have been close points wise not the shite it has turned out to be.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

4 minutes ago, Reformation Bear said:

It used to be said that form goes out of the window at OF games.   And many a time that's been the case.   So you never know.  Maybe on the day the team finds it within itself to engineer a win.  

No matter the result I don't think the game on Saturday will define Warburton's future at Ibrox.    He'll probably hear it loud and clear if it goes very badly on Saturday but I'd still expect the usual post match stuff about learning and so an and each league game has the same 3 point value.

But as we progress through the winter games and into Spring and the sharp end of the season if the consistently inconsistent levels of performance / wins continue and he does not solve the goal scoring problem and does not solve the defensive errors problem then I can see King having a good look at whether Warburton has done enough to justify another season where we risk not providing a step-change improvement in challenging for the title.  If Warburton is not demonstrating that next season is likely to see a vast improvement then why would King let him continue?    More of the same (or more or less the same) next season must absolutely not be on the agenda.    

 

TBH, even if we are taking a serious humping, I don't think we should show any malice towards MW in front of the scum. Take it on the chin and keep singing to sicken those bastards.

As for King, he needs to be having a good look at himself and ask if he has done enough to justify remaining at our club, far less Warburton. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

8 minutes ago, Reformation Bear said:

It used to be said that form goes out of the window at OF games.   And many a time that's been the case.   So you never know.  Maybe on the day the team finds it within itself to engineer a win.  

No matter the result I don't think the game on Saturday will define Warburton's future at Ibrox.    He'll probably hear it loud and clear if it goes very badly on Saturday but I'd still expect the usual post match stuff about learning and so an and each league game has the same 3 point value.

But as we progress through the winter games and into Spring and the sharp end of the season if the consistently inconsistent levels of performance / wins continue and he does not solve the goal scoring problem and does not solve the defensive errors problem then I can see King having a good look at whether Warburton has done enough to justify another season where we risk not providing a step-change improvement in challenging for the title.  If Warburton is not demonstrating that next season is likely to see a vast improvement then why would King let him continue?    More of the same (or more or less the same) next season must absolutely not be on the agenda.    

 

The same wont be tolerated. If he gets decent funding and there is no improvement then DK would be correct to sack him. 

What if he doesnt get decent funding though? what if MW is achieving the best we are going to get given the funds available? Its all very well sacking the manager but what if the expectation simply isnt achievable with the funds currently available? do we simply keep sacking managers?

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

6 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

The same wont be tolerated. If he gets decent funding and there is no improvement then DK would be correct to sack him. 

What if he doesnt get decent funding though? what if MW is achieving the best we are going to get given the funds available? Its all very well sacking the manager but what if the expectation simply isnt achievable with the funds currently available? do we simply keep sacking managers?

I'm far from convinced that Warburton is getting the best from the players at his disposal.   I don't get any strong sense from him of an ability to fix problems and to make players perform to the best of their potential as Rangers players.  He can analyse, comment, defend his players, pay lip service to recognising the size of the Club etc.   But getting the best out of them as a team on anything like a good enough consistent basis?  For me he's not doing that and not showing enough that he can do that   More than that, I'm not convinced he is capable of doing it at a club of the stature of Rangers. 

[cushynumber 25,178]

1 minute ago, Reformation Bear said:

I'm far from convinced that Warburton is getting the best from the players at his disposal.   I don't get any strong sense from him of an ability to fix problems and to make players perform to the best of their potential as Rangers players.  He can analyse, comment, defend his players, pay lip service to recognising the size of the Club etc.   But getting the best out of them as a team on anything like a good enough consistent basis?  For me he's not doing that and not showing enough that he can do that   More than that, I'm not convinced he is capable of doing it at a club of the stature of Rangers. 

See for me its almost the opposite of that. Have these players anymore to provide? Would a different manager get more out them ? or have the players themselves simply plateaued and another manager might provide a short term bounce but no more?

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

2 minutes ago, Reformation Bear said:

I'm far from convinced that Warburton is getting the best from the players at his disposal.   I don't get any strong sense from him of an ability to fix problems and to make players perform to the best of their potential as Rangers players.  He can analyse, comment, defend his players, pay lip service to recognising the size of the Club etc.   But getting the best out of them as a team on anything like a good enough consistent basis?  For me he's not doing that and not showing enough that he can do that   More than that, I'm not convinced he is capable of doing it at a club of the stature of Rangers. 

Not much wrong in that. From the MW statement on judging him at the end of the season and his scum comment, he obviously doesn't get the Rangers mentality and as a consequence cannot pass it on to the players. I think the players like him and I'm sure they sit listening all day long, but I doubt he has the ruthless streak in him, in that losing is unacceptable and if underperforming, you are benched. We got all the learning we need from the SCF and the first six games this season. It's like we have learned nothing and not moved on, even with this limited squad. 

[WeirFleckNRothen 1,789]

1 hour ago, Torontoblue76 said:

Agree. In fact we've lost one league game out of the last 13. Most clubs anywhere in the world would give their left nut for that statistic.

We are victims of our own success.

We have been spoiled. Absolutely fucking spoiled. Never mind nine-in-a-row; in this century alone, administration and relegation to the Third Division has been countered by two last-day league wins and a UEFA Cup final.

It's natural that these achievements set high standards, but sometimes we have to reign it in. We can act like spoiled brats, as some have following last night.

Last night's result was disappointing. Nothing more, nothing less. There were positives, such as our performance until their equaliser, but we can't throw recent form, results and achievements out of the window every time we drop points.

If some people are building-up hope that we're chasing the Tims, then we should prepare for more RangersMedia meltdowns. Contrary to comments I've seen, the wheels are far from falling off of their season; they have won in style, won ugly and as a results of heavy investment, have this league on toast.

We can't compete with that... yet. We want to, of course, but we must be realistic. Otherwise we'll end up losing our shit and throwing a tantrum every single time we drop points.

We're building. As much as I hate Warburton's choice of words like "take care of the ball" and "pitch geography", he's absolutely right; we've progressed and improved as the season has gone on.

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

22 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

See for me its almost the opposite of that. Have these players anymore to provide? Would a different manager get more out them ? or have the players themselves simply plateaued and another manager might provide a short term bounce but no more?

I know what you mean.  If that's the case though then it must be more than a bit worrying as other than for Wallace, McKay and Miller the rest are all Warburton's decision to bring to Ibrox in which case he's brought in players that could never live up to what is expected at Ibrox.  If that were the case then it would bring his judgement and suitability for the job into even more focus.    They have shown in r2 recent home games (Aberdeen and Hearts) that they can perform to a level that deals with these clubs.   But they cannot do so on a consistent basis.   That, it seems to me, is then mainly down to how effective (or ineffective) the manager is in motivating them to achieve far more consistency.    He's not doing that.

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, Reformation Bear said:

I know what you mean.  If that's the case though then it must be more than a bit worrying as other than for Wallace, McKay and Miller the rest are all Warburton's decision to bring to Ibrox in which case he's brought in players that could never live up to what is expected at Ibrox.  If that were the case then it would bring his judgement and suitability for the job into even more focus.    They have shown in r2 recent home games (Aberdeen and Hearts) that they can perform to a level that deals with these clubs.   But they cannot do so on a consistent basis.   That, it seems to me, is then mainly down to how effective (or ineffective) the manager is in motivating them to achieve far more consistency.    He's not doing that.

well, if i was MW I would have brought in guys to win the Championship first and foremost because if he didnt do that he wouldnt be here now. I dont blame him for some short term thinking in that respect.  He then surely has to give some of them a chance to see if they can cut it in the premiership - which he is doing now - with varying degrees of success it has to be said. 

 

So given that some are simply not up to the premiership challenge (and he had to give them the chance)  then I think theres still major overhauls of this squad required. As long as he recognises this and is ruthless about going about it then he will give himself a better chance of success. Hanging onto players who simply arent going to cut it for too long, will be his undoing

[K.A.I 36,183]

This is gonna sound really strange coming from me but win or bust isn't these old firm games .. if we lost at Ibrox for first time in nearly 30 years to Aberdeen he should be sacked on the spot 

that's our cup final as pathetic as it sounds 

sorry but it is 

[graeme_4 35,298]

Nah, he shouldn't. Smith or Advocaat or whoever else couldn't win the league with the budget we had. 

He's made mistakes, and has his issues, but ultimately we haven't spent the money required to challenge Celtic.

I actually think we've really improved recently as a team, as has Warburton recently (more direct, dropping favourites, altered systems).

However, we simply don't have enough quality in the ranks to win every game we play. When the chips were down we'd have a Gascoigne or Laurdrup (or Naismith or Jelavic) to pull a goal from nowhere. We simply don't have the level of quality, and that's down to finance. 

[Grundy 736]

Not saying that throwing money at the team is always the answer but I just can.t see the board giving Warburton anything like enough to make much of a difference in the summer ( probably next to nothing in January) and the mhanks have the champions league money plus perhaps a hefty wedge for Dembele, probably not as much as has been suggested but a few mill anyway. This gives them the chance to improve further which is a worrying thought.  I don't like to be negative but come the summer I just can't see us spending over 5 million which is probably the minimum needed to make us serious challengers. Where is the money coming from ?

[loyalfollower 1,543]

Don't think it's win or bust. Fucking he'll we're going into a game against a team like it or not which are light years ahead of us all over the club. Saturday will be an extremely tough game and won I think we'll be cuffed 2/3-0 but that is not the managers fault.

The dud delia signed some decent players previously which Rodgers is getting 75% more from.  Meanwhile we're scraping the barrel at accy Stanley and mk dons Wigan etc. 

[Torontoblue76 120]

2 hours ago, DBBTB said:

I've got a hunch that Norwich will make a move for Warburton when they sack Alex Neil.

Maybe but don't think he'll go. The only place I could see him going is the top half of the EPL ...?

[Rangersfansmediawatch 1,055]

4 hours ago, KingKirk said:

That's my thinking. Sadly probably won't be the case

Yet another knee jerk reaction.

Ok i'll play along.  Who do you think we should bring in to replace them ?

[GaryMc 2,398]

The board either have to back them with players of quality or bring in someone who can get results from this squad.

And I don't think the board has money for either options. Certainly not the option of bringing in a higher quality of manager anyway as it would take a Mourinho to get this squad winning comfortably.

[KingKirk 25,825]

1 hour ago, Rangersfansmediawatch said:

Yet another knee jerk reaction.

Ok i'll play along.  Who do you think we should bring in to replace them ?

what's kneejerk about it

[Jameshay09 4]

7 hours ago, WeirFleckNRothen said:

Another overreaction.

I strongly vented my opinion that we should not be satisfied or pleased with second in this league, but instead accept that we're/we've achieved it, move on and progress. However, on the opposite end of the spectrum, we've got drama queens like the OP overreacting.

We've won four of our last five games - two of which have been against our closest opposition in terms of the league - and last night, were held at a ground that I've seen a Rangers side including Steven Davis, Madjid Bougherra, Allan McGregor and co. lose 4-1. We conceded through error, not through attack.

Warburton frustrates me, too. Our current league placing kills me inside and I'm certain that every single bluenose will be irritated by the Tims extending their lead in the league last night.

We cannot call for Warburton and Weir's heads every time we drop points because we're holding a grudge from our start to the season.

We have to be realistic. We've progressed from where we were at the start of the season when yes, I would have agreed that there were periods or win-or-bust.

You have got it spot on

[writingranger 1,427]

usual nonsense being talked by one or two. He's got a January window, then assuming we finish second, he has a further window. Next season the board expect him and the team to challenge and to challenge better than Aberdeen managed. If we win the league he'll stay and try to get through champions league qualifiers, if not he'll probably go. Simple.

[writingranger 1,427]

4 hours ago, jim beam said:

Yes it could easily be thirty points who knows yet.And at the start of the season I fully expected us to challenge them for most of the season and if we did fall away it would have been close points wise not the shite it has turned out to be.

there's some truth in this but we only have control over 9 points as far a Celtic are concerned. They have been incredibly consistent. We are still gelling but we are improving and this team is a long way from its peak. I have no idea what the result will be on Saturday but I expect a strong run to the end of the season.

[Bertent 2,081]

The more I read the more I think some are confusing denial with loyalty. Dejavu.