12 Angry Men

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,025]

Just now, Courtyard Bear said:

So we spunk money we don't have and cross our fingers or just cross our fingers. 

How do you know we don't have the money?

[wilberforce1 605]

2 hours ago, D'Artagnan said:

If the Rangers support were a jury, I think it would safe to say we had reached a majority rather than a unanimous decision on Pedro. An early exit to European minnows from Luxembourg on the back of an embarrassing defeat to our greatest rivals at home, whilst losing our long-established home record to the sheep would suggest that a fairly compelling prima facie case had been established by that majority.

Furthermore, an inauspicious start to the season makes it all the more difficult to introduce a reasonable element of doubt into the minds of those who are currently sitting in the majority camp and whose minds are clearly made up so to speak.

Should we pause for a moment and recall Advocaat’s multi-million £ squad, albeit not with home advantage, losing 6-2 at Parkhead? Should we consider that even some great Rangers managers, with far more settled squads suffered worse starts in their first 3 games of the domestic league? Should we ponder the fact that abysmal refereeing had a major say in 2 of our last 3 league games?

Perhaps we could reflect on the fact we are into a rebuilding programme which is clearly not yet complete, before we decide to sack the architect.

The first few years of Sir Alex Ferguson’s tenure at Manchester United were characterised by something of a roller coaster ride which saw them take a few backward steps before their record winning period of success. Having been appointed in 1986, it was season 92/93 before the Reds won their first championship under the tenure of Sir Alex. While such a comparison certainly qualifies as an “apples and oranges” evaluation, the virtues of patience and a realistic assessment of the challenges faced should not be excluded either.

As always, the OF games will have a considerable bearing on the manager’s future. We have to hope Kranjcar’s recent interview where he suggested we could lose all 4 OF games and still challenge for the title is a form of delusion exclusive to Niko, and not the rest of the dressing room or the management.

There is a popular saying that the “league table never lies”. Would it be prudent to wait until the end of the season and put this theory to the test rather than jump on the managerial merry go round prematurely?

 Naw

 Fix bayonets.

 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, K.A.I said:

How can we not? how do you know that? you (aswell as others) just assume our finances to suit your own argument.

You (like BlueAvenger) is using this narrative of defence and strawman argument because you's were so vocal in backing Pedro and now know he's shite and not upto it, instead of just being honest it's like you's have convinced yourself sacking him won't make a different. It's pretty pathetic. 

I totally get the point, though, about the useless cunts that run our club and will they get it right? that's a more than valid debate - but that's what the debate should be NOT should Pedro stay or go - that shouldn't even be up for debate. 

We are losing money and needed loans again towards the end of the season to keep the club afloat. Your doing just the same to back your argument we can just simply sack managers at a whim. 

Can you tell me where we have suddenly found all the money to sack a manger on a 3 year deal and pay compensation for new one???

I still can't get this certainty on here that sacking Pedro and all our worries are over, no matter who we get he is playing catch up against them with one hand if not two tied behind his back. We will not catch them without serious money invested in the team. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

4 minutes ago, Frank Harrison said:

How do you know we don't have the money?

Tell me what has changed since we needed more loans from the current board turn of the year??? 

[Smell the hotdog 4,016]

9 minutes ago, Frank Harrison said:

He'll achieve our immediate goal of establishing a gap between us and the rest. After that who knows?

I'd go for Tommy Wright personally. Well ideally Big Sam but cant see that.

We need someone of a big Sam ilk but since he's left a multi million pound role with big budget compared to anything we can offer, it's got zero chance of happening as you've referred to.

Unless someone comes along who needs to rebuild their career ala Rodgers and we put our hand in our pocket. We probably will end up with someone average like McInnes/Wright. 

Bringing McInnes/Wright in reminds me of when they brought in Tommy Burns. Good guy with connections to the club but ultimately won't improve to the level required.

Understand why people want a low risk appointment after the last two but if it's done right a 'high risk' appointment brings high rewards.

[Rosebery1872 78]

ffs guys do u have ANY fucking clue how big the name of this club down south is???? King should walk in to any mid prem side and say 'we want your manager now fuck off you sky cocksucking no mark club'. Stoke? who??? Swansea? meh Southampton?1976 fa cup winners wooo. Palace? hahaha West 'am?? wtf? nothing but £££prem good time sucksuck clubs.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,025]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Tell me what has changed since we needed more loans from the current board turn of the year??? 

We've spent roughly £8m on transfer fees for a start

1 minute ago, Smell the hotdog said:

We need someone of a big Sam ilk but since he's left a multi million pound role with big budget compared to anything we can offer it's got zero chance of happening. 

Unless someone comes along who needs to rebuild their career ala Rodgers and we put our hand in our pocket. We probably will end up with someone average like McInnes/Wright. 

Bringing McInnes/Wright in reminds me of when they brought in Tommy Burns. Good guy with connections to the club but ultimately won't improve to the level required.

Understand why people want a low risk appointment after the last two but if it's done right a 'high risk' appointment brings high rewards.

Yeah fair points. Think Wright is an excellent manager though.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,025]

2 minutes ago, Rosebery1872 said:

ffs guys do u have ANY fucking clue how big the name of this club down south is???? King should walk in to any mid prem side and say 'we want your manager now fuck off you sky cocksucking no mark club'. Stoke? who??? Swansea? meh Southampton?1976 fa cup winners wooo. Palace? hahaha West 'am?? wtf? nothing but £££prem good time sucksuck clubs.

 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, Frank Harrison said:

We've spent roughly £8m on transfer fees for a start

So no new substantial income streams and we have already spent a shitload of money on players. 

[Smell the hotdog 4,016]

Just now, Frank Harrison said:

We've spent roughly £8m on transfer fees for a start

Yeah fair points. Think Wright is an excellent manager though.

To be honest mate i'd take him over McInnes as he has done a very good job with St Johnstone. 

Never know, someone might surprise us and apply for it, if we get rid of PC.

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

We are losing money and needed loans again towards the end of the season to keep the club afloat. Your doing just the same to back your argument we can just simply sack managers at a whim. 

Can you tell me where we have suddenly found all the money to sack a manger on a 3 year deal and pay compensation for new one???

I still can't get this certainty on here that sacking Pedro and all our worries are over, no matter who we get he is playing catch up against them with one hand if not two tied behind his back. We will not catch them without serious money invested in the team. 

Sacking him at a whim  ok so the past 6-months worth of disasters hasn't happened, then.

and yes I am guessing the finances too but my guesses are a lot more resonable. We've been told we've money for shirt sales, Pedro looking to bring in a couple more players and currently a bid of around 650k in for Walker and that was before the Waghorn money too and what's left in the pot from season ticket sales ... it would probably cost 2-million tops to sack Pedro and bring in McInnes. Do the maths.

2-million is a lot to us but it won't sink us.

Do you not think a DOF would apppoint the next manager anyway? or do you think the arseholes will tell him no and they'd assemble their pathetic 3-man panel again?

I'll make this very, very simple ...simple question to you...

If the board weren't picking the new manager and it was the DOF
We could afford to sack him and pay compensation for a new manager

Would you do it? yes or no. 

[Rosebery1872 78]

which is why it was, for a month solid, headline news over every other epl club down here during admin. If charles green farted sky sports news had a man on hand to smell it. And on the front page 'broken crested' on ALL the newspapers.   

[K.A.I 36,183]

Another option for you CourtyardBear (if we can't afford to sack him)

What do you think Forrester was on a week? would 7k be a fair guess?

Pedro's wage reported in the press was between 350-400k per annum .. that works out about the same (7k per week)

Put Pedro on gardening leave giving him his wages every week and pay for it using the money we've saved from Forrester moving on. Literally like-for-like. Problem solved.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 65,025]

8 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

So no new substantial income streams and we have already spent a shitload of money on players. 

42k season tickets...

[Bristoe1872 2,556]

The comparison with Alex Ferguson is a well used one that I am sure we have all heard used in the past but in my humble opinion it bears no scrutiny to our position at present. Ferguson had won a European trophy with a crappy wee team from the north east and broke the domination of the old firm. Pedro has done next to hee haw and was a name I'd never even heard of before. I will never change my opinion that the appointment of  say a Tommy Wright would have been a far more sensible approach. Also won't change my view that with this haddock in charge we will win nothing and will never get near Savco,frustrating because inspite of all the mhedia hype I don't think they are any great shakes and will no doubt be humped in the CL.  Only my opinion but we should have cut our losses after the Progress humiliation. Add to that that half the time I don't have a clue what the gibbering idiot is on about and his countless embarrassing gaffes (green boots ffs) and it all adds up to the same thing for me. Get shot while we still have time to sort this mess out and appoint a tried and tested manager who knows Rangers knows this league and knows this mhedia.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Sacking him at a whim  ok so the past 6-months worth of disasters hasn't happened, then.

and yes I am guessing the finances too but my guesses are a lot more resonable. We've been told we've money for shirt sales, Pedro looking to bring in a couple more players and currently a bid of around 650k in for Walker and that was before the Waghorn money too and what's left in the pot from season ticket sales ... it would probably cost 2-million tops to sack Pedro and bring in McInnes. Do the maths.

2-million is a lot to us but it won't sink us.

Do you not think a DOF would apppoint the next manager anyway? or do you think the arseholes will tell him no and they'd assemble their pathetic 3-man panel again?

I'll make this very, very simple ...simple question to you...

If the board weren't picking the new manager and it was the DOF
We could afford to sack him and pay compensation for a new manager

Would you do it? yes or no. 

Aye sacking a manager after 6 months is bonkers. 

So your guesses are a lot more reasonable ?? tell me the increase in revenue streams that will allow us to sack Pedro around 2/3 mill pay compensation for a new manager around 1/2 mill then pay him somewhere around 2/3 mill?? 

I seriously doubt the DoF will be allowed to hire the new manager. 

Not sure what you mean by your last bit mate? Are you saying sack the DoF if that right he would need compensation paid. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

10 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Another option for you CourtyardBear (if we can't afford to sack him)

What do you think Forrester was on a week? would 7k be a fair guess?

Pedro's wage reported in the press was between 350-400k per annum .. that works out about the same (7k per week)

Put Pedro on gardening leave giving him his wages every week and pay for it using the money we've saved from Forrester moving on. Literally like-for-like. Problem solved.

Ive heard Pedro is on a lot more than 350/400k a week, It's up there with the  Gardeners wage. 

Can I ask what is paying the bills while we spend all this cash??? 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Aye sacking a manager after 6 months is bonkers. 

So your guesses are a lot more reasonable ?? tell me the increase in revenue streams that will allow us to sack Pedro around 2/3 mill pay compensation for a new manager around 1/2 mill then pay him somewhere around 2/3 mill?? 

I seriously doubt the DoF will be allowed to hire the new manager. 

Not sure what you mean by your last bit mate? Are you saying sack the DoF if that right he would need compensation paid. 

How's it bonkers after 6 months given the results we've had? I think it's you that's bonkers.

Yes my guesses are a lot more resonable for the examples I've just laid out. How will it cost us upto 3-million to sack Pedro 6 months into a 3-year deal on 350-400k per year  

The last bit, where are you getting I'm saying sack the DOF? 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Ive heard Pedro is on a lot more than 350/400k a week, It's up there with the  Gardeners wage. 

Can I ask what is paying the bills while we spend all this cash??? 

McCoist was on 700k a year. 

You've no answered my question ... if we could afford it and you were assured that it wasn't Robertson picking the new manager and it was the DOF instead, would you agree it's right to get rid of Pedro? simple yes or no. 

[Cedrick 8,048]

2 hours ago, Smile said:

Cardosa looks poorer now good in the friendlies now he shows the man onto his stronger side to have a shot. Alves got rag-dolled by the Ginger boy of Hibs.

You could pick individuals who are better and i believe some are as well but as a team, we are very poor.

Agree , I've been disappointed with Alves to be honest , hasn't tackled anyone yet , I thought he was brought in to police games like hibs yet he got a torrid time from Murray and didn't go near stokes once , he's quite happy to head the ball 40 yards down the pitch which he is good at but we've not seen a great deal else 

[geneva_ger 9,366]

Agree and disagree with many of the points made and will make my call on the team/points/soul as it stands. Forget the Manure Fergie start, forget the Sam/Mcinnes/brenda analogies, forget the tail-end of last season. He is dealing with new personnel.

He talks the same shit as MW but HAS strengthened in some areas. He struggled to impress but got 3 points, got robbed of 3 points and was woeful to get 1 point. He's had enough time to understand what is needed and will have been briefed by many in the know, although he should stop listening to kenny who is now of similar status to Waghorn imho.

The heart and confidence of what it means to be a Ranger is clearly not in the newbies and no amount of shouting "We are the people" will change that. We no longer have the No Surrender attitude as a given. Every game is a one-off and he must be able to make the tactical/personnel changes as and when they are needed to counter the lack of "fuck you" that is missing.

He must get wins (barring the liewell being the ref) against county, dundee and thistle or goodbye (reconsider after each game). The scum game is a lottery but there must be a decision made on 24th Sept. I'll give him until then under those conditions.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

11 minutes ago, Bristoe1872 said:

The comparison with Alex Ferguson is a well used one that I am sure we have all heard used in the past but in my humble opinion it bears no scrutiny to our position at present. Ferguson had won a European trophy with a crappy wee team from the north east and broke the domination of the old firm. Pedro has done next to hee haw and was a name I'd never even heard of before. I will never change my opinion that the appointment of  say a Tommy Wright would have been a far more sensible approach. Also won't change my view that with this haddock in charge we will win nothing and will never get near Savco,frustrating because inspite of all the mhedia hype I don't think they are any great shakes and will no doubt be humped in the CL.  Only my opinion but we should have cut our losses after the Progress humiliation. Add to that that half the time I don't have a clue what the gibbering idiot is on about and his countless embarrassing gaffes (green boots ffs) and it all adds up to the same thing for me. Get shot while we still have time to sort this mess out and appoint a tried and tested manager who knows Rangers knows this league and knows this mhedia.

The thing is Bristoe - its not a comparison, I have tried to qualify that in the article by suggesting it is something of an apples and oranges evaluation. The point that is being made is that patience and realistic assessment of the challenges faced should feature in the equation.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, geneva_ger said:

Agree and disagree with many of the points made and will make my call on the team/points/soul as it stands. Forget the Manure Fergie start, forget the Sam/Mcinnes/brenda analogies, forget the tail-end of last season. He is dealing with new personnel.

He talks the same shit as MW but HAS strengthened in some areas. He struggled to impress but got 3 points, got robbed of 3 points and was woeful to get 1 point. He's had enough time to understand what is needed and will have been briefed by many in the know, although he should stop listening to kenny who is now of similar status to Waghorn imho.

The heart and confidence of what it means to be a Ranger is clearly not in the newbies and no amount of shouting "We are the people" will change that. We no longer have the No Surrender attitude as a given. Every game is a one-off and he must be able to make the tactical/personnel changes as and when they are needed to counter the lack of "fuck you" that is missing.

He must get wins (barring the liewell being the ref) against county, dundee and thistle or goodbye (reconsider after each game). The scum game is a lottery but there must be a decision made on 24th Sept. I'll give him until then under those conditions.

Why should we, though?

This excuse get's on my tits. He was dealing with another managers players, granted, players who are on fire elsewhere yet we have to ignore that and excuse Pedro and give him a pass anyway? ... if we were still in Europe and not made this start to the season that we have you could perhaps excuse it and but as it stands it's just a continuation of the shite we've endured during his tenure. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

4 minutes ago, OhW said:

That's Neymar level.

? 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

19 minutes ago, Frank Harrison said:

42k season tickets...

Same as last year then with a small increase in ST cost. 

Can you show me the 4/5 mill revenue increase.