European Coefficient

[Jb85 1,783]

Won't having more teams in Europe scupper our co efficient seeing as they don't really do well?

[Brackley 1,401]

13 hours ago, Brubear said:

You say diddy clubs but if it had come in a year earlier we would have been in it. As Scotland only had 4 places, it would have been 1 CL and 1 EL for cup winner and 2 EC, 2nd and 3rd in league, which would have been us. It shows how important it was that we got Scotlands coefficient to a level Scotland are a top 15 country. 

That would have been interesting as last years cup still hasn't been "won" yet. 😁

[Brubear 2,920]

1 hour ago, Brackley said:

That would have been interesting as last years cup still hasn't been "won" yet. 😁

I knew someone would pick up on that. I was meaning in a "normal" year. 

[MurrayWilson 3,393]

The whole coeffecient thing and how it works out is mental. For instance, grenada who have hardly ever been in europe get into pot 2 of the europa league group draw just cos they happen to be spanish and therefor got coeffecient points just for that. Not right.

[Brubear 2,920]

2 hours ago, Jb85 said:

Won't having more teams in Europe scupper our co efficient seeing as they don't really do well?

Normally yes as the combined coefficient points earned will be divided by 5 in future not 4. This ensures only countries with a depth of decent teams keep 5 or 6 teams in Europe. Scotland normally only get it for 1 or 2 seasons before we drop down again because of the lack of quality outside us and them. Will be interesting if that changes as 2 of our teams will be in this new EC competition where the standard should be lower and the likes of the sheep and hibs might actually get some wins. 

[Brubear 2,920]

57 minutes ago, MurrayWilson said:

The whole coeffecient thing and how it works out is mental. For instance, grenada who have hardly ever been in europe get into pot 2 of the europa league group draw just cos they happen to be spanish and therefor got coeffecient points just for that. Not right.

I agree. That to me is the one area UEFA have it wrong, the rest actually works not too bad. If your club coefficient is lower than the country one you get the country coefficient. The theory is that if you were 4th or 5th in Spain but haven't been in Europe for 5 years  for example, you are probably better than a team from Andorra that make Europe every year.  It doesn't effect the quality teams, only the also rans. I think the highest country coefficient is around 16 and we are now above that despite only having 2 full years points plus this years. We have felt the effect the past 2 years as we were way down the rankings due to having been out of Europe for 5 years. 

[McEwan's Lager 30,522]

5 hours ago, G.E.C. said:

This new Conference League thing sounds interesting.

Even if you lose a Europa Play-off or finish 3rd in the group stage you just drop into this tournament rather than out of Europe altogether.

I’m not convinced they have really thought about this properly.

For me it should have been a chance for teams from Northern Ireland, Wales, Malta, Estonia etc to directly qualify and play regular European football but I still don’t think many of them will even qualify for this tournament looking at the format.

[Flatcap 489]

3 hours ago, MurrayWilson said:

The whole coeffecient thing and how it works out is mental. For instance, grenada who have hardly ever been in europe get into pot 2 of the europa league group draw just cos they happen to be spanish and therefor got coeffecient points just for that. Not right.

That's a bit like saying that if we had finished champions the year we got back into the SPL, we wouldn't have deserved a CL spot. Grenada earned the right by finsihing 7th in one of the best leagues in the world....seems fair enough to me.

[MurrayWilson 3,393]

38 minutes ago, Flatcap said:

That's a bit like saying that if we had finished champions the year we got back into the SPL, we wouldn't have deserved a CL spot. Grenada earned the right by finsihing 7th in one of the best leagues in the world....seems fair enough to me.

Pish. The results we have achieved in Europe the last 2 years have been deemed only enough to merit a pot 4 coeffecient, we have beaten  the likes of feyenoord, porto and galatasray to name but a few. Grenada have done fuck all in europe which is what should count. 

[Flatcap 489]

49 minutes ago, MurrayWilson said:

Pish. The results we have achieved in Europe the last 2 years have been deemed only enough to merit a pot 4 coeffecient, we have beaten  the likes of feyenoord, porto and galatasray to name but a few. Grenada have done fuck all in europe which is what should count. 

So did Leicester City not deserve a champions league spot when they won the EPL?

[Brubear 2,920]

1 hour ago, Flatcap said:

That's a bit like saying that if we had finished champions the year we got back into the SPL, we wouldn't have deserved a CL spot. Grenada earned the right by finsihing 7th in one of the best leagues in the world....seems fair enough to me.

It isn't a case of getting the right of access, that is a given based on where you finish in your country's league or cup. It is a case of seeding for qualifiers of group pots. We would never have been denied access to CL or EL due to not being in Europe for 5 years but we were unseeded for the qualifiers, even the early ones in the first year back because we were Scottish. If we were Spanish, English etc we would have been seeded through all the qualifiers and put in pot 2 of the EL group, whereas last year we were in pot 4 and this year pot 3. 

[Brubear 2,920]

2 minutes ago, Flatcap said:

So did Leicester City not deserve a champions league spot when they won the EPL?

Yes , but did the deserve a pot 1 seeding. 

[eejay the dj 31,964]

1 minute ago, Flatcap said:

So did Leicester City not deserve a champions league spot when they won the EPL?

The positive .We are getting stronger so I’m counting on our points making sure qualifying for CL could be a regular thing .And Leicester won me a grand .So I would say they did 😄

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

Bring back the CWC i say, that was a quality tourney 

[Flatcap 489]

1 minute ago, Brubear said:

It isn't a case of getting the right of access, that is a given based on where you finish in your country's league or cup. It is a case of seeding for qualifiers of group pots. We would never have been denied access to CL or EL due to not being in Europe for 5 years but we were unseeded for the qualifiers, even the early ones in the first year back because we were Scottish. If we were Spanish, English etc we would have been seeded through all the qualifiers and put in pot 2 of the EL group, whereas last year we were in pot 4 and this year pot 3. 

I understand....but the seedings are based upon country performance over time, not individual club history. If it were done on individual club history, hardly any new teams would break through. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't like the sytem any more than anyone else but the argument that because we are Glasgow Rangers and have beaten whoever is irrelevant.

[Brubear 2,920]

2 minutes ago, Flatcap said:

I understand....but the seedings are based upon country performance over time, not individual club history. If it were done on individual club history, hardly any new teams would break through. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't like the sytem any more than anyone else but the argument that because we are Glasgow Rangers and have beaten whoever is irrelevant.

Seeding are based on club coefficient. The country coefficient is only used to ascertain how many teams your country get into the CL and EL, and now EC and where these teams enter each competition. i.e. which qualifying round or straight into group. 

Once that is decided the club coefficient is used to ascertain the seeded teams for each of the qualifying rounds and then which pot you are in if you make the group stage. 

The only time the country coefficient comes into play again is where a club has a lower coefficient than its country coefficient, in that case it gets allocated the country one. 

As a result teams the big 5 leagues who tend to have the top country coefficients are almost always seeded in the qualifiers and avoid the bottom pots in the groups even if they have no European pedigree. i.e Leicester.  This is the part that allows the new teams to break through as you say. 

 

 

[Brubear 2,920]

23 minutes ago, Flatcap said:

I understand....but the seedings are based upon country performance over time, not individual club history. If it were done on individual club history, hardly any new teams would break through. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't like the sytem any more than anyone else but the argument that because we are Glasgow Rangers and have beaten whoever is irrelevant.

For the record I think the system is actually very good, and UEFA have thought of most eventuality. It is skewed towards benefiting the big leagues but as long as you stay in the top 15 countries it works quite well for you. Scotland are back there now but the trick is to stay there. 

[Flatcap 489]

14 minutes ago, Brubear said:

Seeding are based on club coefficient. The country coefficient is only used to ascertain how many teams your country get into the CL and EL, and now EC and where these teams enter each competition. i.e. which qualifying round or straight into group. 

Once that is decided the club coefficient is used to ascertain the seeded teams for each of the qualifying rounds and then which pot you are in if you make the group stage. 

The only time the country coefficient comes into play again is where a club has a lower coefficient than its country coefficient, in that case it gets allocated the country one. 

As a result teams the big 5 leagues who tend to have the top country coefficients are almost always seeded in the qualifiers and avoid the bottom pots in the groups even if they have no European pedigree. i.e Leicester.  This is the part that allows the new teams to break through as you say. 

 

 

Fair enough, I stand corrected.....and educated!

[bornabear 6,202]

4 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Moved above Ukraine into 11th.

Austria 2.5 points ahead. Probably not catchable unless their 4 teams lose most games in next 4 group games and the scum start winning.

2nd part is mission impossible mate.

[MattyBlue 17,115]

5 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Moved above Ukraine into 11th.

Austria 2.5 points ahead. Probably not catchable unless their 4 teams lose most games in next 4 group games and the scum start winning.

Would usually mean automatic qualification to CL groups for the SPL winners 

[MattyBlue 17,115]

13 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Dont know the exact statistics but sure its very high that 11th place is enough for a team straight into CL group stages most seasons.

I just read, I think that might apply to 22/23 CL

[eskbankloyal 19,446]

30 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Moved above Ukraine into 11th.

Austria 2.5 points ahead. Probably not catchable unless their 4 teams lose most games in next 4 group games and the scum start winning.

Ukraine still got three teams in Europe, with 2 in the CL well placed to finish at least 3rd. To stay in 11th we’ll need both us & them to keep picking up points and possibly both of us to get out the groups

[Smell the hotdog 4,015]

8 hours ago, Rangers_no1 said:

Dont know the exact statistics but sure its very high that 11th place is enough for a team straight into CL group stages most seasons.

Top 10 spots are guaranteed a place in the group stage. If the winner of the CL is from one of the top 10 countries (can’t think in recent times when they wouldn’t be) then the automatic slot is handed down to 11th place.

[MurrayWilson 3,393]

18 hours ago, Flatcap said:

So did Leicester City not deserve a champions league spot when they won the EPL?

No did they fuck. Not an automatic one. 

[MurrayWilson 3,393]

Using country coeffecients is for one reason and one reason only and thats to get as many teams from the so called big 5 leagues automatic entry or an easy route to the group stages. If lille come 2nd this year then they will be straight in, i dont think anyone who saw them last night would think they merit that.