Is a player suddenly 'better' when we sign him?

[Danny 9]

Rabbitt's comment in another thread reminded me of a concept I feel we often overlook.

Why is it when we sign a player we expect a vast amount from them, a Rangers level, when previously they played for Derby, Southampton, Everton etc?

Rabbitt made the point that for the wages we pay them, and the fees we paid for them, we should get better results. But why does the amount you're paying them and the amount you paid for them and the fact they're now with Rangers automatically elevate them in terms of what we often expect?

If you look at our team it's made up of, in theory, a group of pretty average players.

A former: Charlton player, Derby, Hibs, Everton, Southampton, Kilmarnock, Hearts, Wigan, Norwich, Dundee, Portsmouth, Burnley, Fulham etc.

All of these teams are fairly mid-range at best, yet when we pluck a player from them and pay them a fortune suddenly they're capable of 'better'.

I find it curious that we expect much more from them as soon as they sign.

If you created a mix of a team of a bunch of average players and threw them randomly into the SPL, you'd maybe expect a midtable finish. But because that team is us, we expect a hell of a lot more.

Why is that?

[papaguy51 912]

I presume that our management has seen something in them that will really endear the player to the paying fans.

When it doesn't happen, it makes us wonder exactly what they saw in the player.

[BillyBoyBlue 0]

The days have passed when we had former Barcelona, Ajax, and Lazio players. This wont happen for a long long time as long as the current board are in control and the lack of money the club has to spend.

When any player pulls on the Light Blue jersey expectations will be high. This is part and parcel of playing for Glasgow Rangers. Any player that plays for Arsenal, Real Madrid or AC Milan have the same expectations. A successful club has these pressures. We all, myself included, expect any Rangers player to be a cut above the rest regardless of their background. You have to be better (in theory)! Its just a shame that the current squad is full of pish with only a few real players with talent.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Hmm? I like this one. Its quite different when put like this isnt it? You also forgot to add St Mirren to that list (Kirk)

One would also think though, that, players appear to get worse the second they sign for us, especially given the way some appear to feel about our manager. I tend to feel that, regardless of who we sign, if Smith chose them, they wont be good enough in some peoples eyes. We also predjudice in reverse, where the likes of Broadfoot have done nothing really wrong all season, and are still lambasted, the most recent example being after our last game, when he was the only defender that turned up for us, yet, at the end of the day, he isnt Gough, so, not good enough. Thomson was also greeted with a less than impressive response, and, look how valuable he is now. There is nothing wrong with picking up the best young players around, as , other teams seem to play them, which gives experience that we as a support are not prepared to do, as, we need success now. When we do get these young lads, we are disappointed because it isnt a big name

The players who are deemed good enough, tend to be unproven, and, not playing enough, however, they have a player in the 1st team that people dislike, in their position, which, instantly makes them better and better with each match.

McCulloch is a great example. Paid a decent amount for an international player, who has had a career in the top flight in England, he comes to us and its decided he has absolutely no footballing ability at all, when, his career would tend to say otherwise. As a result, and, due to the positions he has played, McMillan (a RB for me), Aaron, Furman, have all become fantastic players, even though Furman appears to be havig a less than impressive spell on loan.

Perhaps we arent comfortable with our current position, which, sadly, is 2nd best. We havent actually gotten used to not being able to spend like we could, and, attract players like we could. Sure, guys like Gazza, Laudrup etc didnt cost a lot, but, if you actually use inflation and todays prices, we would not get them now. We pretty much have to do the best we can with what we can get. However, I feel the support plays as much a part in this as the players and management, because, the roar at Ibrox is no more, why would the opposition be scared? We wont make a noise to intimidate them, we sit on our hands and groan at everything. I have a real feeling we could contribute to the team far more than we do.

[Thermopylae 15,287]

Some players can rise to the challenge of going to a big club and become better where as others are like a deer caught in the car headlights and become worse

[Polo 1,434]

Hmm? I like this one. Its quite different when put like this isnt it? You also forgot to add St Mirren to that list (Kirk)

One would also think though, that, players appear to get worse the second they sign for us, especially given the way some appear to feel about our manager. I tend to feel that, regardless of who we sign, if Smith chose them, they wont be good enough in some peoples eyes. We also predjudice in reverse, where the likes of Broadfoot have done nothing really wrong all season, and are still lambasted, the most recent example being after our last game, when he was the only defender that turned up for us, yet, at the end of the day, he isnt Gough, so, not good enough. Thomson was also greeted with a less than impressive response, and, look how valuable he is now. There is nothing wrong with picking up the best young players around, as , other teams seem to play them, which gives experience that we as a support are not prepared to do, as, we need success now. When we do get these young lads, we are disappointed because it isnt a big name

The players who are deemed good enough, tend to be unproven, and, not playing enough, however, they have a player in the 1st team that people dislike, in their position, which, instantly makes them better and better with each match.

McCulloch is a great example. Paid a decent amount for an international player, who has had a career in the top flight in England, he comes to us and its decided he has absolutely no footballing ability at all, when, his career would tend to say otherwise. As a result, and, due to the positions he has played, McMillan (a RB for me), Aaron, Furman, have all become fantastic players, even though Furman appears to be havig a less than impressive spell on loan.

Perhaps we arent comfortable with our current position, which, sadly, is 2nd best. We havent actually gotten used to not being able to spend like we could, and, attract players like we could. Sure, guys like Gazza, Laudrup etc didnt cost a lot, but, if you actually use inflation and todays prices, we would not get them now. We pretty much have to do the best we can with what we can get. However, I feel the support plays as much a part in this as the players and management, because, the roar at Ibrox is no more, why would the opposition be scared? We wont make a noise to intimidate them, we sit on our hands and groan at everything. I have a real feeling we could contribute to the team far more than we do.

Yet another great post Outlaw

[Ted E Bayer 484]

McCulloch and Davie Weir and possibly Davis aside, we are buying the best players of the clubs you listed therefore they are generally not run of the mill players but players who could and should do a job for a bigger and better team such a Rangers therefore our expectation remain high.

[Danny 9]

McCulloch and Davie Weir and possibly Davis aside, we are buying the best players of the clubs you listed therefore they are generally not run of the mill players but players who could and should do a job for a bigger and better team such a Rangers therefore our expectation remain high.

Perhaps, but signing a good player from a big team is surely more what we expect than signing the best one from a truly mediocre team.

Maybe it's just expectation and ego, but we signed Gazza from Lazio, GVB from Feyenoord, even Buffel from Feyenoord and of course Prso from Monaco for chief's sake.

This is not that long ago.

Neither is De Boer from Barce-friggin'-lona!

Now it's completely unglamorous and unexciting players - but we expect the same from them as we do from anyone we sign.

Yet in so many cases there's no evidence throughout their careers that they're good enough for the most successful team on earth.

The last player of real class we signed from a reasonably big team iirc was probably indeed Prso from Monaco.

That is a long time ago.

[WaltersGotStyle 160]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

[Danny 9]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

True, it's our biggest signing since Prso. Still not as big as the Croat though.

[ManchestGer 347]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

Yeah I was excited when we signed Mendes, i thought it was a rumour that would never come to anything when he was first linked. It's the same with Aaron, the words 'Valencia' and 'Prospect' excited us all but were not getting the ready made final player, its still in our hands to develop him and turn him into something.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

You can sign a player with a big name, but that doesn't gaurantee that they will be successful either! Beasley has had a bit of a reputation, lot's of International caps got to the semis of the CL but he hasn't exactly set the world alight at Ibrox? I'm sure if we go through our history of players we will find other cases where they have come from a supposedly bigger team but found to be wanting. Classic example we can look across the road at the piggery, they were creaming themselves when they signed Sno and Donati supposedly the next best thing since sliced bread!

There is also the issue of ridiculous transfer fees which some clubs can demand and also the wages which some clubs can pay compared to us, we don't get the same amount of money as a club from television rights ect like they do in the EPL or even the Championship so we can only buy what is available within our wage structure.

Also, no point in blaming SDM for any of this, and the get rid of the board scenarios, unless we can get a buyer who is a billionaire and is willing to use their own private wealth to throw at Rangers like the owner of Chelsea or the new owners of Man City then whoever does eventually replace SDM will be in the exactly same boat, and so will we.

[outlaw69uk 123]

You can sign a player with a big name, but that doesn't gaurantee that they will be successful either! Beasley has had a bit of a reputation, lot's of International caps got to the semis of the CL but he hasn't exactly set the world alight at Ibrox? I'm sure if we go through our history of players we will find other cases where they have come from a supposedly bigger team but found to be wanting. Classic example we can look across the road at the piggery, they were creaming themselves when they signed Sno and Donati supposedly the next best thing since sliced bread!

There is also the issue of ridiculous transfer fees which some clubs can demand and also the wages which some clubs can pay compared to us, we don't get the same amount of money as a club from television rights ect like they do in the EPL or even the Championship so we can only buy what is available within our wage structure.

Also, no point in blaming SDM for any of this, and the get rid of the board scenarios, unless we can get a buyer who is a billionaire and is willing to use their own private wealth to throw at Rangers like the owner of Chelsea or the new owners of Man City then whoever does eventually replace SDM will be in the exactly same boat, and so will we.

Indeed, Dragan Mladenovic springs to mind, 16 letters!

[outlaw69uk 123]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

True, it's our biggest signing since Prso. Still not as big as the Croat though.

Disagree, Mendes comes with more pedigree and success, Prso had 1 good season with monaco, and, probably made his name while at Rangers, with all due respect.

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

Indeed, Dragan Mladenovic springs to mind, 16 letters!

And with regards to Prso, we didn't pay a transfer fee for him either, I'm sure we got him as a Bosman when he was coming to the end of his career.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Indeed, Dragan Mladenovic springs to mind, 16 letters!

And with regards to Prso, we didn't pay a transfer fee for him either, I'm sure we got him as a Bosman when he was coming to the end of his career.

We did, he had a very short career too, didnt he "make it" at around 29 or so? I know he came to the game late. Only thing I knew about him when he signed was that he scored 5 in a champions league game (and I believe so did Salenko and I was worried by that)

[J-Maestro 11,235]

Salenko scored 5 in World Cup 94 against Cameroon.

[outlaw69uk 123]

Salenko scored 5 in World Cup 94 against Cameroon.

thats what I meant, one great performance can slightly skew the quality of the player

[Danny 9]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

True, it's our biggest signing since Prso. Still not as big as the Croat though.

Disagree, Mendes comes with more pedigree and success, Prso had 1 good season with monaco, and, probably made his name while at Rangers, with all due respect.

Prso is a hero with Croatia (9 goals in 32 appearances for them), had 2 exceptional seasons with Monaco including winning the league (late starter) at which point he was wanted, after the CL final, by a host of clubs but because he'd loved Ibrox so much when playing there with said French side it was no competition when we came in for them.

Pedro only played twice for Portugal and also won the league once in Portugal.

I completely disagree that Mendes has had the more successful career.

I would say though that Prso's most famous spell was with us.

But so was Paul Gascoigne and Brian Laudrup's so that a pretty meaningless point

[Danny 9]

Indeed, Dragan Mladenovic springs to mind, 16 letters!

And with regards to Prso, we didn't pay a transfer fee for him either, I'm sure we got him as a Bosman when he was coming to the end of his career.

Actually we got him pretty much at his peak - he was 28 when he signed for us. He was a late bloomer but a quick riser.

And yes, he was a free.

[Danny 9]

This is all kinda missing the point though - it's not about signing all these superstars, it's about expecting frankly average players from average teams to suddenly be capable of playing to the level we'd expect from players at Rangers merely because we've signed them.

We are basically a mix of a lot of average players from average teams, but put them together and suddenly they're better and more than the sum of their parts?

[outlaw69uk 123]

McCulloch and Davie Weir and possibly Davis aside, we are buying the best players of the clubs you listed therefore they are generally not run of the mill players but players who could and should do a job for a bigger and better team such a Rangers therefore our expectation remain high.

Perhaps, but signing a good player from a big team is surely more what we expect than signing the best one from a truly mediocre team.

Maybe it's just expectation and ego, but we signed Gazza from Lazio, GVB from Feyenoord, even Buffel from Feyenoord and of course Prso from Monaco for chief's sake.

This is not that long ago.

Neither is De Boer from Barce-friggin'-lona!

Now it's completely unglamorous and unexciting players - but we expect the same from them as we do from anyone we sign.

Yet in so many cases there's no evidence throughout their careers that they're good enough for the most successful team on earth.

The last player of real class we signed from a reasonably big team iirc was probably indeed Prso from Monaco.

That is a long time ago.

The players you mentioned, perhaps gascoigne aside, were not the best from their side, but, ones who did a good job, or in Prso and De boers case, at the wrong end of their careers. These were either, squad players in better sides, or, verging on past it (to emphasize the point, not say they WERE past it) who were all expendable at these "big" clubs, where as we , I think, as a rule, disregarded actual performances and were fooled by where they came from.

In fact, as you say in the second highlighted bit, I think a lot of the time that is 100% what its about, bragging to others that "we just signed so and so from Barca" etc rather than the capabilities of the actual player. Ex Barca, Ex Feyenoord etc "sounds" better than ex Dundee, ex St Mirren etc

Of course we can find others, but, to illustrate the point

Capucho - Ex porto, Champions league winner was he not?

Thomson - Ex hibs, young scot, standout in his side, so, best of a mediocre side

Who was the best buy? People would argue at the time of signing, but, not now I would wager!

Look at the Ex English Premier League players we currently have? A lot of people are generally disappointed! McCulloch? Weir? Webster? (ok we like Mendes and Davis, but again, ex Fulham and Portsmouth? JCD, big name, signed from Ligue 1, bit of a disappointment too.

Naismith? Thomson? standouts in their sides, as was Boyd. To an extet Broadfoot also, he epitomises this, unglamourous, not a big name signing, but, once he found his stride, I dont think he has let us (or Scotland) down this season, and towards the end of last

I prefer to look at things this way, brag about say, Celtic for example, spending millions on players who dont perform, where as our "bargains like Boyd, Kirk etc, do!

[outlaw69uk 123]

I have to say though Danny I was pretty excited when we signed Mendes!

True, it's our biggest signing since Prso. Still not as big as the Croat though.

Disagree, Mendes comes with more pedigree and success, Prso had 1 good season with monaco, and, probably made his name while at Rangers, with all due respect.

Prso is a hero with Croatia (9 goals in 32 appearances for them), had 2 exceptional seasons with Monaco including winning the league (late starter) at which point he was wanted, after the CL final, by a host of clubs but because he'd loved Ibrox so much when playing there with said French side it was no competition when we came in for them.

Pedro only played twice for Portugal and also won the league once in Portugal.

I completely disagree that Mendes has had the more successful career.

I would say though that Prso's most famous spell was with us.

But so was Paul Gascoigne and Brian Laudrup's so that a pretty meaningless point

Pedro also a Champions League winner, which appears to be a big thing for some. Has also been recalled has he not, so, more to come perhaps. Has also played consistently in "top" leagues

Not meaningless, just, not a big name signing, just in my opinion. Gazza was most famos at Spurs, and then moving to Italy, hence why he got his own show basically, and, UK tv started overing Serie A. Laudrup I agree was with us, but, I always perceived Michael as the more famous one

[Danny 9]

The players you mentioned, perhaps gascoigne aside, were not the best from their side, but, ones who did a good job, or in Prso and De boers case, at the wrong end of their careers. These were either, squad players in better sides, or, verging on past it (to emphasize the point, not say they WERE past it) who were all expendable at these "big" clubs, where as we , I think, as a rule, disregarded actual performances and were fooled by where they came from.

In fact, as you say in the second highlighted bit, I think a lot of the time that is 100% what its about, bragging to others that "we just signed so and so from Barca" etc rather than the capabilities of the actual player. Ex Barca, Ex Feyenoord etc "sounds" better than ex Dundee, ex St Mirren etc

Of course we can find others, but, to illustrate the point

Capucho - Ex porto, Champions league winner was he not?

Nah, Uefa Cup only.

Thomson - Ex hibs, young scot, standout in his side, so, best of a mediocre side

Who was the best buy? People would argue at the time of signing, but, not now I would wager!

Look at the Ex English Premier League players we currently have? A lot of people are generally disappointed! McCulloch? Weir? Webster? (ok we like Mendes and Davis, but again, ex Fulham and Portsmouth? JCD, big name, signed from Ligue 1, bit of a disappointment too.

JCD was signed from the Ligue 1 equivalent of Everton

You're backing up my point here.

Naismith? Thomson? standouts in their sides, as was Boyd. To an extet Broadfoot also, he epitomises this, unglamourous, not a big name signing, but, once he found his stride, I dont think he has let us (or Scotland) down this season, and towards the end of last

I prefer to look at things this way, brag about say, Celtic for example, spending millions on players who dont perform, where as our "bargains like Boyd, Kirk etc, do!

Perhaps, but we cannot then complain when we look at the squad.

You're far too optimistic.

You disgust me

[Danny 9]

Pedro also a Champions League winner, which appears to be a big thing for some. Has also been recalled has he not, so, more to come perhaps.

He might have been recalled but he didn't play. And wasn't called up after that initial one either. And if he only managed 2 caps when in the big leagues, I really can't see him managing much more in the backwater of the SPL.

I mean there's no huge shame in that - Portugal's national team is incredibly strong.

Has also played consistently in "top" leagues

Portugal and England. Compared to Prso's Ligue 1.

Not meaningless, just, not a big name signing, just in my opinion. Gazza was most famos at Spurs, and then moving to Italy, hence why he got his own show basically, and, UK tv started overing Serie A.

Gazza's peak was between 1990 and 1998. tbh you could argue any of the 3 clubs he was with during that time saw his most famous period.

Laudrup I agree was with us, but, I always perceived Michael as the more famous one

He was, but that is also a bit irrelevant