Forfeit game! Points deduction.

[WizardWalters 476]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

The bit in bold is really important. If celtic DID know he was out the country then there is a far bigger issue.

And why the media, government and police should be all over this.

[Ger_onimo 20,488]

Just now, The Dude said:

Nothing credible.

Would defy any logic to put him on the bench and chuck him on for a few minutes at the end if they were tbh

[Ger_onimo 20,488]

1 minute ago, Thornliebanktrueblue said:

If a player is using performance enhancing drugs. And the manager doesn’t know.  Then the result is surely void. 

Don’t think so, and there’s plenty of examples to prove it I would think

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, Thornliebanktrueblue said:

If he’s in Spain. He’s banned.  

Mid he doesn’t tell club then they can discipline him.  

Few clubs knowingly break registration or suspension issues.  They are usually genuine mistakes.  The celtic Levi’s one was for a sub when celtic were 6-1 down ffs. 

This is so serious that Scottish football could be suspended.  All our season ticket money wasted and smaller clubs go bankrupt.  

But no that’s not enough for a points deduction.  

We got suspended from Europe in 72 cos our fans invaded the pitch.  There was no rule that said that would happen.   

Your a pedantic apologist for failing to understand that 1 point deduction is a reasonable penalty

And if nobody knew he was in Spain until AFTER the Killie game, how can he banned for the Killie game?

Legia played a player that there was no question was ineligible and was named on UEFA's suspension list. It may be a genuine mistake on Legia's part but there was no debate over the fact that the player was suspended and ineligible for the tie.

You're citing something 50 years ago which was nothing to do with the SFA or SPFL (who were still some 27 years  away from existing at that point)? ffs.

 

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Which I broadly agree with but at the time of the game, nobody seemingly knew he'd been out the country, so he wouldn't have been classed as ineligible anyway as he'd kept quiet that he'd been away.

If celtic knew he'd been away prior to the Killie game then it's a whole different problem for them.

Again though, in previous ineligible player situations, how many clubs actually knew they were breaking the rules, look at legia incident, they wouldnt knowingly break the rules for a 3 minute sub that cost them the tie, 

Wether the club knew or didnt shouldn't matter, 

[Canabear 4,558]

1 hour ago, Bad Robot said:

The mail reporting the spfl are rushing through emergency powers to punish the clubs but if they can’t use the existing powers then surely this is the final straw for the incompetent Doncaster ?

This is the bigger story in all of this and it's being blindsided by Football fans looking to blame the Clubs in this issue , with some merit i'll add.

His , and a few others that hold rank in Scottish Football , have been on thin ice for a while now and through all this carry on i'd say they've just fell through the ice and simply don't have a leg to stand on now.

It's gross incompetence , nothing more nothing less , and should see them removed from office due to negligence once the dust has settled.

The money him and the other two fuckwits are being grossly over paid to do whatever it is they do is scandalous but once again we see that not one journalist with his salt is willing to tackle this story head on.

[Thornliebanktrueblue 667]

26 minutes ago, The Dude said:

He wasn't. The government protocols have no bearing on a players eligibility. 

If he’s in Spain. 

He has to quarantine 14 days

this means he is not allowed to play football. 

Is he allowed/ able/ permitted/ eligble to play? No

you are being a fuckin pedant arguing over the wording about why he shouldn’t have played.  

[Howsitgoing 4,281]

1 minute ago, Ger_onimo said:

Would defy any logic to put him on the bench and chuck him on for a few minutes at the end if they were tbh

He trained with other players, don’t think they would risk it for just the one player but they would of been concerned of what should still happen and all their 1st team should be self isolating. Put the player on the bench and on for a few minutes was for their cover story that they weren’t aware. If they had left the player out of the team squad they will look even more iffy than they currently do. 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Ger_onimo said:

Would defy any logic to put him on the bench and chuck him on for a few minutes at the end if they were tbh

This is where the real issue is for me whilst everyone is jumping up and down wanting a forfeit.

Players have to be tested and submitted to SFA/SPFL 48 hours before kick off. Assuming celtic didn't know he'd gone to Spain, he'll logically have been tested with the rest of the squad to be submitted on Friday afternoon. So far they haven't/won't confirm that to be the case.

This is where it can go two ways and either clear or bury them.

If they knew he'd been away, tested him and got a negative result so played him anyway, celtic are in serious danger of having breached the rules.

If they didn't know he'd been away, tested him and then played him, I don't think it's unfair to say they've acted in good faith.

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Again though, in previous ineligible player situations, how many clubs actually knew they were breaking the rules, look at legia incident, they wouldnt knowingly break the rules for a 3 minute sub that cost them the tie, 

Wether the club knew or didnt shouldn't matter, 

Legia knew as it was pointed out to them before the game. UEFA send a list of suspensions to every club. The player was on the list of suspensions.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, Thornliebanktrueblue said:

If he’s in Spain. 

He has to quarantine 14 days

this means he is not allowed to play football. 

Is he allowed/ able/ permitted/ eligble to play? No

you are being a fuckin pedant arguing over the wording about why he shouldn’t have played.  

The wording is quite important if you want a result overturned because a player was ineligible when, by every interpretation of the rules on player eligibility, he was eligible to play.

[hammer93 15,057]

11 minutes ago, The Dude said:

It doesnt. A players eligibility is specifically defined. Just because you want it to be so, doesnt make it so.

The issue is that the player returned to the country and should have been self-isolating. That's totally different to his eligibility to play in games.

Jeezo....you are definitely at the wind up....because his registration is fine does not take away from the fact that he should be self isolating which under government protocol makes him in my eyes INELIGIBLE....I know you are going down the unavailable for selection route with this....the government doesn't tell clubs if a player is available for selection because he has suffered the flu....they are telling clubs as FACT that they cannot play or be in contact.....that in my eyes makes any player INELIGIBLE...the problem is the league never thought about protocol breaches which leaves us at the mercy of the government to call this as they see it

[gogzy 31,195]

2 hours ago, Ger_onimo said:

I don’t think deductions are the answer, but forfeiture of upcoming games seems fair to me, otherwise postponement punishes the opponents in upcoming games as well.

This.   To me this is the only fair outcome.

 

[jbm26896 995]

They are the masters of victimisation,

Now victims of their own players actions, 

Cannot  imagine a club not knowing a player is out of the country. 

Although they accepted the awarded league title ,they would fight any points deduction with everything they had, 

Would they clamber to sack eduoard if he had been involved?

Classless FC .

 

[bluenoz 30,836]

Just now, The Dude said:

Legia knew as it was pointed out to them before the game. UEFA send a list of suspensions to every club. The player was on the list of suspensions.

 

Legia knew? 6-1 up and decided to risk that by knowingly play an ineligible player in the last few minutes.? Get tae!

And you are also giving the tarriers the benefit of the doubt here despite having a history of lying and covering up. No wonder folk get angry with you.

[gogzy 31,195]

1 minute ago, hammer93 said:

Jeezo....you are definitely at the wind up....because his registration is fine does not take away from the fact that he should be self isolating which under government protocol makes him in my eyes INELIGIBLE....I know you are going down the unavailable for selection route with this....the government doesn't tell clubs if a player is available for selection because he has suffered the flu....they are telling clubs as FACT that they cannot play or be in contact.....that in my eyes makes any player INELIGIBLE...the problem is the league never thought about protocol breaches which leaves us at the mercy of the government to call this as they see it

It doesn't matter what your feeling on his eligibility is mate.  The rules say he wasn't ineligible.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, hammer93 said:

Jeezo....you are definitely at the wind up....because his registration is fine does not take away from the fact that he should be self isolating which under government protocol makes him in my eyes INELIGIBLE....I know you are going down the unavailable for selection route with this....the government doesn't tell clubs if a player is available for selection because he has suffered the flu....they are telling clubs as FACT that they cannot play or be in contact.....that in my eyes makes any player INELIGIBLE...the problem is the league never thought about protocol breaches which leaves us at the mercy of the government to call this as they see it

It doesn't matter what it makes it in your eyes. The only definition of whether a player is eligible is the one in the rules.

 

 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, bluenoz said:

Legia knew? 6-1 up and decided to risk that by knowingly play an ineligible player in the last few minutes.? Get tae!

And you are also giving the tarriers the benefit of the doubt here despite having a history of lying and covering up. No wonder folk get angry with you.

Yes Legia knew. They were given the same UEFA Circular that every other club gets and is posted on UEFA's website before every round of fixtures. They had tried to game the rules by omitting him from their A squad list and including someone else for games he was supposed to be suspended for - ironically enough meaning he was ineligible for the games Legia initially thought he'd served his suspension for.

[Ger_onimo 20,488]

3 minutes ago, gogzy said:

This.   To me this is the only fair outcome.

 

Also solves the problem of fixture pile ups - no need to rearrange if the game is forfeited.

[blaudrup 5,343]

9 minutes ago, Thornliebanktrueblue said:

If a player is using performance enhancing drugs. And the manager doesn’t know.  Then the result is surely void. 

Right.  Employers are vicariously liable for their staff, it's their job to know and be on top of health and safety in all walks of live.  Any employer that has a staff member return from Spain at the moment when they should be self-isolating would not have them in front of customers, or other staff members.

For fuck's sake the football authorities find clubs liable for their fans behaviour.  Songs they don't like.

CFC saying "difficult to imagine a more irresponsible action in current circumstances and we find it beyond explanation" is another way of actually not bothering to explain.

[gogzy 31,195]

Just now, Ger_onimo said:

Also solves the problem of fixture pile ups - no need to rearrange if the game is forfeited.

Exactly.  

Everyone also knows where they stand too.  Fuck up and you're gonna be forfieting the next fortnight worth of games.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, blaudrup said:

Right.  Employers are vicariously liable for their staff, it's their job to know and be on top of health and safety in all walks of live.  Any employer that has a staff member return from Spain at the moment when they should be self-isolating would not have them in front of customers, or other staff members.

For fuck's sake the football authorities find clubs liable for their fans behaviour.  Songs they don't like.

CFC saying "difficult to imagine a more irresponsible action in current circumstances and we find it beyond explanation" is another way of actually not bothering to explain.

How can the employer enforce that without knowing the employee had been in Spain?

[bluenoz 30,836]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Yes Legia knew. They were given the same UEFA Circular that every other club gets and is posted on UEFA's website before every round of fixtures. They had tried to game the rules by omitting him from their A squad list and including someone else for games he was supposed to be suspended for - ironically enough meaning he was ineligible for the games Legia initially thought he'd served his suspension for.

Then it was a genuine mistake. Far from knowingly playing an illegible player. You certainly know how to spin a tale. I'll give you that.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

It's rumoured that he was having talks with a Spanish club. Did any Spanish clubs show an interest in him before this event took place? What are the Spanish papers saying about Bolli?

[OhW 4,669]

8 minutes ago, gogzy said:

It doesn't matter what your feeling on his eligibility is mate.  The rules say he wasn't ineligible.

 He said it in capital letters but