Butragueno 0 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Just awful in ways i'd never realistically imagined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4boysandabaw 3 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 How long ago was it that the ex chairman came on the telly to tell us that the club was in great shape, it was nt so long ago that I dont suspect he was speaking with forked tongue. We wanted change and change theres going to be. but what. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamFyfe 1,438 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 awrite guys im so hamerd just now and i heard this on the way home! feckin guttin man the banks are running us and now we know! we are the people and no surrender!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby 41 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Is it only me, or where we not lead to believe that the debt was under control with all the cutbacks and that although we had to tighten the belt, we had our destiny in our own hands. WS has just bascially stated we are at the mercy of the banks and SDM has fucked off! WTF! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railcard 2 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Is it only me, or where we not lead to believe that the debt was under control with all the cutbacks and that although we had to tighten the belt, we had our destiny in our own hands. WS has just bascially stated we are at the mercy of the banks and SDM has fucked off! WTF! this has been in the stars for a while McClelland said he felt rangers could never be run properly by murray apparently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnson 27 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I heard from a pretty good source that McCoist and McDowall knew they were for the chop if the league was not won last season. Thankfully, that turned out OK, but the alarm bells were clearly ringing. The contract renewals that will now be on offer to any staff who are not deemed surplus to requirements will be based on massive salary cuts. Our new (acting on behalf of Lloyds bank) board member Donald Muir was also appointed a director of MIH's Premier Property Group recently. As I said earlier, he's a turnaround specialist. He either saves companies from administration -- or gets as much value as possible for the banks before the administrators move in. I don't see Rangers going into administration. The club pulls in plenty of hard cash, so a drastic step like that would be self-defeating. But costs will be trimmed brutally and any assets sold off until as much as possible of the debts are repaid or a new owner comes up with an acceptable price. But one thing worries me . . . Why would a bank do this to a company with a turnover of 60m or 70m if the debt was 20m to 30m? Surely manageable, I'd have thought. I've been trashed on here before for saying it, but I'll say it again . . . I think there are loan notes or something similar hidden within the MIH group that effectively mean we have much higher debts. Otherwise, this simply doesn't make sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby 41 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Agree 30m dont sound much, but in the SPL, with our turnover and income streams less costs, we probably seem incapable of payback. Shows the sorry state things are in. SDM has alot to answer for - but we wont see him again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4boysandabaw 3 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ive been reading around the various news sites . It is a precarious situation for sure. The implications are whirling around my head. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae 15,287 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Would a bank really have the guts to move against us ... talk about bad publicity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancedeangers1 287 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I keep thinking back to Murrays repeated statement that he will only sell to someone who has the best interests of the club at heart and has the resources to take the club on to greater things. I wonder if this is still the case now ? As for Dave King, if he's involved it will be as part of a consortium and not the sole buyer. Irrespective of who the new owners are I just wish to see the bank off our backs and for football and winning trophies to be the main focus at Rangers. Right now we are in our own wee episode of 'Eastenders' and the media vultures and greater Rangers hating community are loving it so for all of our sakes hopefully this will be resolved soon. If we can get an owner(s) to pay off our debt then the club can run itself profitably and once again be the dominant force of Scottish football. Iv'e a good feeling that the current circus is in part being manufactured to deflect attention away from the real covert movements behind the scenes ? Think about it, there's obviously some individuals that know exactly what is happening and they are carefully and timely drip feeding us and the media suggestive language, ( body and verbal ). Which in turn creates the speculative feeding frenzy. Whatever the outcome I don't think it will be too long before we have some answers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnionCityBlue 0 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I heard from a pretty good source that McCoist and McDowall knew they were for the chop if the league was not won last season. Thankfully, that turned out OK, but the alarm bells were clearly ringing. The contract renewals that will now be on offer to any staff who are not deemed surplus to requirements will be based on massive salary cuts. Our new (acting on behalf of Lloyds bank) board member Donald Muir was also appointed a director of MIH's Premier Property Group recently. As I said earlier, he's a turnaround specialist. He either saves companies from administration -- or gets as much value as possible for the banks before the administrators move in. I don't see Rangers going into administration. The club pulls in plenty of hard cash, so a drastic step like that would be self-defeating. But costs will be trimmed brutally and any assets sold off until as much as possible of the debts are repaid or a new owner comes up with an acceptable price. But one thing worries me . . . Why would a bank do this to a company with a turnover of 60m or 70m if the debt was 20m to 30m? Surely manageable, I'd have thought. I've been trashed on here before for saying it, but I'll say it again . . . I think there are loan notes or something similar hidden within the MIH group that effectively mean we have much higher debts. Otherwise, this simply doesn't make sense. Interesting post, I see your points. However, it could also be said that the bank is simply taking least risks possible. If we do not win the SPL this season, we will probably lose money next season or break even at best. Breaking even does not get the bank its money back any faster and perpetuates risk. Losing money is not an option. From one financial POV, it could easily be said that the bank is best to milk £10m+ in January if it can, and simply take the sure cash. Why should they gamble on our sporting success, which if it goes wrong means they have waited 8-9 months and found themselves not likely to be able accelerate re-payment? Banks are now extremely risk-averse, so why would they do that? It's not impossible at all, far from it for the bank to asset-strip in the short-term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybear 0 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I heard earlier on from my dad whos mates with Robert Deans "Dixie" the brother of the old Celtic player John Deans also "Dixie", he's a bear that Celtic are paying off all the ex-player guys that work at Celtic Park on matchdays Dixie(the old Celtic player one) is being paid off as are the rest. Things must be bad in the SPL if all this carry on is going on with us anc Celtic are paying off ex-players of the club who do the hospitality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab 73 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Share Posted October 25, 2009 Whatever the outcome I don't think it will be too long before we have some answers. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRangers 2 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I wonder how long before were asked to back another share issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1mgg 3,766 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I have not heard the interview but it doesnt really change how walter could change his tactics from now until january. If we did have a spare 5m to spend would you really want him spending it on some more shit? I was led to believe 2 new people were placed on the board and probably a good thing as it means our money will be better governed and lead to the debt being reduced. We have known for ages we were in dire straits but this doesnt change anything and will the person that was going on about companies in glasgow and edinburgh just tell us as from what you are saying if rangers went into admin then a murray company could not be any part of the administrators due to fears of syphoning(sp) off assets. I know kpmg do stuff for hbos but not sure about lloyds. For me walter has said this to deflect the shit off of his back and try cover up for his current management skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcelonabear 23 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Is it only me, or where we not lead to believe that the debt was under control with all the cutbacks and that although we had to tighten the belt, we had our destiny in our own hands. WS has just bascially stated we are at the mercy of the banks and SDM has fucked off! WTF! this has been in the stars for a while McClelland said he felt rangers could never be run properly by murray apparently McClellands point was proved when after he had got us back onto a semblance of a sound financial footing, Sir David rolled back in and led us back into the dire state we now find ourselves in. I mean for god sake Martin Bain is still in a job and we signed our merchandising away to JJB for a guaranteed lump sum when if we had knocked it back we would have made the same amount in the first season that JJB gave us, and after our Uefa Cup Final run could have brought out a ton of more merchandise which would no doubt have been lapped up by a significant number of fans to the extent that our debt figure would have been thoroughly reduced, if not wiped out completely. I heard from a pretty good source that McCoist and McDowall knew they were for the chop if the league was not won last season. Thankfully, that turned out OK, but the alarm bells were clearly ringing. The contract renewals that will now be on offer to any staff who are not deemed surplus to requirements will be based on massive salary cuts. Our new (acting on behalf of Lloyds bank) board member Donald Muir was also appointed a director of MIH's Premier Property Group recently. As I said earlier, he's a turnaround specialist. He either saves companies from administration -- or gets as much value as possible for the banks before the administrators move in. I don't see Rangers going into administration. The club pulls in plenty of hard cash, so a drastic step like that would be self-defeating. But costs will be trimmed brutally and any assets sold off until as much as possible of the debts are repaid or a new owner comes up with an acceptable price. But one thing worries me . . . Why would a bank do this to a company with a turnover of 60m or 70m if the debt was 20m to 30m? Surely manageable, I'd have thought. I've been trashed on here before for saying it, but I'll say it again . . . I think there are loan notes or something similar hidden within the MIH group that effectively mean we have much higher debts. Otherwise, this simply doesn't make sense. The new board members were announced earlier on last week, and Muir was announced as a 'business strategist specialist' no mention of his positioning with the banks, but his links to Murray International Holdings was mentioned which made me think he was just another one of Murray's puppets, not sure now if we're better off that he's not. It seems that some of SDMs friends from the bank who are season ticket holders at Ibrox have gave up their season tickets, which doesn't suggest rosy times to come. One said he had given it up after 20 years, but not to tell SDM. I got that info from the same source that told me that Smith is currently on £800k a year, McCoist £500k and McDowall £250k. The belief of some at Ibrox is that an on loan Rangers defenders current gaffer in the city of Desperate Dan could potentially be snared for £300k a season, and if you add this to the fact that Smith et al signed 3 year deals when they took over in January 2007 we wouldn't have any compensation to pay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 One or two small points about comments on here. Any director appointed has to work in the best interests of the company - they do NOT work for outside benefit but for the company where they are directors. Directors are appointed by shareholders - there are usually 'rules' in a company's articles of association that govern how a director is appointed so SDM will have been fully aware of this. However, like any overdraft, the bank will have the right to demand full repayment at anytime - and if Rangers could not do that we would go into administration - what 'may' have happened is the bank have threatened that if the board structure was not changed to their satisfaction they would invoke the repayment clause. What is most likely going on is the bank have set some, probably tight, parameters to reduce the overdraft but until cash payments come in from CL etc we have no excess. I do not think it will be a bad thing for Rangers if we have to operate within our means - but that does mean we will have tough times until debt reduced and 'we' are running the club without the banks restraints. January may tell us a lot about where we are but I suspect we will have to wait till then to move this debate on, unless this mysterious buyer is real. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,609 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 ive just read page 4 of this an cannot go further why are people over reacting????? talks of banks selling the club, administration, liquidation fucking turn it up ffs we were double the current estimated debt figure in debt when eck was here, the only difference between now and then is that the banks are now more closely working with their customers to make sure that they are getting the right service etc etc we didnt have a fire sale in january, we didnt have a closing down sale in august, we will not flog everyone worthwhile this coming january chill out folks ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksen_da_best 2,034 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 ive just read page 4 of this an cannot go further why are people over reacting????? talks of banks selling the club, administration, liquidation fucking turn it up ffs we were double the current estimated debt figure in debt when eck was here, the only difference between now and then is that the banks are now more closely working with their customers to make sure that they are getting the right service etc etc we didnt have a fire sale in january, we didnt have a closing down sale in august, we will not flog everyone worthwhile this coming january chill out folks ffs Did SDM do a runner in any of these previous times? did he feck. No getting out of it, we are in a awful state and in serious need of investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,609 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 ive just read page 4 of this an cannot go further why are people over reacting????? talks of banks selling the club, administration, liquidation fucking turn it up ffs we were double the current estimated debt figure in debt when eck was here, the only difference between now and then is that the banks are now more closely working with their customers to make sure that they are getting the right service etc etc we didnt have a fire sale in january, we didnt have a closing down sale in august, we will not flog everyone worthwhile this coming january chill out folks ffs Did SDM do a runner in any of these previous times? did he feck. No getting out of it, we are in a awful state and in serious need of investment. yes he did do a runner, mcclelland took us over during ecks reign remember serious need of investment yes, awful state yes, but the way some people were going on in here we should introduce a hangman smiley for them to use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksen_da_best 2,034 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 ive just read page 4 of this an cannot go further why are people over reacting????? talks of banks selling the club, administration, liquidation fucking turn it up ffs we were double the current estimated debt figure in debt when eck was here, the only difference between now and then is that the banks are now more closely working with their customers to make sure that they are getting the right service etc etc we didnt have a fire sale in january, we didnt have a closing down sale in august, we will not flog everyone worthwhile this coming january chill out folks ffs Did SDM do a runner in any of these previous times? did he feck. No getting out of it, we are in a awful state and in serious need of investment. yes he did do a runner, mcclelland took us over during ecks reign remember serious need of investment yes, awful state yes, but the way some people were going on in here we should introduce a hangman smiley for them to use Some just want an excuse I heard someone say in College on friday, " was going to support Celtic, but their just as bad, Scottish football is crap, Chelsea is my team now " Whilst wearing the Rangers top from 2 seasons ago . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,609 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Some just want an excuse I heard someone say in College on friday, " was going to support Celtic, but their just as bad, Scottish football is crap, Chelsea is my team now " Whilst wearing the Rangers top from 2 seasons ago . further education really does pay off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricksen_da_best 2,034 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Some just want an excuse I heard someone say in College on friday, " was going to support Celtic, but their just as bad, Scottish football is crap, Chelsea is my team now " Whilst wearing the Rangers top from 2 seasons ago . further education really does pay off Hes doing Gardening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,609 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Some just want an excuse I heard someone say in College on friday, " was going to support Celtic, but their just as bad, Scottish football is crap, Chelsea is my team now " Whilst wearing the Rangers top from 2 seasons ago . further education really does pay off Hes doing Gardening. job in the council awaits him then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILLYSNOVO 5 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 i am absolutely gutted at the moment. what can we do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts