AlCapone 7,678 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 First of all let’s go back to his first spell at Ibrox 1 go at the European cup and 6 goes at the Champions league at a time when Rangers were pretty much matching the spending power of 95% of the teams in the competition. From these 7 goes he was knocked out 4 times by the following might of the continent prior to the group stages 91-92 Sparta Prague* Prior to CL..Knocked out at the first stage 93-94 Levski Sofia 94-95 AEK Athens 97-98 IFK Gothenborg He managed to qualify 3 times for the Champions league in 92-93, 95-96, 96-97 and played 18 ties From these 18 ties he won......3 games!!!! Against the might of Brugge at home, CSKA Moscow at a neutral venue, and Grasshoppers at home....at a time when we were matching the spend in England and most of Europe!!! FFS we had players like Goram, McCoist, Hateley, Laudrup, Gascoigne, Steven, Gough, Michelechenko (excuse the spelling) Boli etc at our disposal, players who were good enough to compete at the HIGHEST level His second time round He has had 3 goes at the CL and his record is Failed to qualify 08-09 Two attempts at the groups stage in 07-08 and 09-10 and from the twelve ties he won....2 games Stuttgart, Lyon So from 30 ties in the CL group stage he has won 5 games!!...or 16% of his games. Yeah his supporters can mention his UEFA cup run, Being one of the lucky ones to have had a ticket for Manchester It was a day never to forget but the CL is the only show that matters, The UEFA/Europa cup is a second rate completions not taken seriously by the big nations...just look at the winners lately. He’s had 5 attempts at the CL group stage and failed to qualify why is this? Simply put the mans dinosaur anti football tactics can fluke you a result over two legs by draws or the odd narrow victory but they will NEVER get you enough points over a six game league group to let you qualify....he is one trick pony, 1 man up front, frustrate, hit on the break but ask him to go and win a tie against good opposition and he aint a Scooby. With Scotland he also couldn’t lose, He took over when we couldn’t qualify and left before his anti football had failed in the next competition, Keep running before the bullets hit Walt! 3 Season at Everton....3 times he finished in the bottom half with his anti football, Moyes takes over and the improvement was instant Memories of tanking after tanking at the group stage Rangers 1- Juve 4 Juve 4 Rangers 0 Grashoppers 3 Rangers 0 Ajax 4 - Rangers 1 Rangers 0 Lyon 3 Rangers 1 Seville 4 Rangers 1 Unirea 4 Yes he gave us 9 in a row, but this is THE RANGERS, Beating Sellik to a title should be a gimme its the CL a club of our stature should be measured on and by god has he failed. The last 23 years have been a lost opportunity for our great club, Europe should have been conquered and we should have been respected. I think it was Guy Roux the Auxerre coach who said we were the stupidest club in Europe. For me that’s Smiths and Murray’s legacy, a wasted wasted opportunity for Rangers to have claimed their rightful place . Who can defend this truly shocking record? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 It's better to be lucky than good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbria_blue 51 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think you could say that for a club our size, we've always underachieved in Europe. Not just in Smith's time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 what exactly is our rightful place? name me one Rangers manager from any era who never underachieved in Europe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvager 498 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Does not matter - WS has underachieved big time in Europe apart from 2 years. Kaunas to me was unforgoveable. Signing 3 strikers for 7+m and having no CH or midfield! WS should stay to the end of this season, but should then leave irrespective of winning trophies or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey126 42 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 i agree 100% mate. people are happy enough to beat the likes of the micks and the rest to the SPL.... i want more, if thats me being greedy then so be it. TBH i never knew his record as as AWFUL as that though. any other club who take european football seriously wouldnt stand for such a record...... why should we??? he would have had his jotters long, long ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUEDIGNITY 33,685 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Wattie has his faults probably working under Jim McLean for so long that has made him belt, braces and chastity belt but we were cheated in the Season 92-93. That should have been our time ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatRadish 1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 '96-'97 was the one that annoyed me most. We demolished the champions of Russia 10-3 on aggregate, had Gazza, Laudrup, Albertz, Goram, Robertson at the top of their game and yet managed one paltry 2-1 win at Ibrox against Grasshopper (who had picked us apart in Switzerland). We should have done so much better. The only excuse was the injury/suspension crisis that we experienced that season - I think we had Scott Wilson and Greg Shields playing against Ajax and Auxerre at one point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,778 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 what exactly is our rightful place? name me one Rangers manager from any era who never underachieved in Europe alex mcleish he got to the last 16 of the champions league, and almost made the quarter finals with a team consisting of bosman buys, second rate SPL players, and even a first division player or 2 if i remember correctly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo. 952 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Wattie has his faults probably working under Jim McLean for so long that has made him belt, braces and chastity belt but we were cheated in the Season 92-93. That should have been our time ! Only time i've ever cried at the football. Was greeting like a wee lassie at the end of the CSKA match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmico1986 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 what exactly is our rightful place? name me one Rangers manager from any era who never underachieved in Europe Paul Le Guen played 6 won 4 drew 2 lost 0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 69 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 We slaughtered Celtic aswell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombaybadboy08 15,660 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Wattie has his faults probably working under Jim McLean for so long that has made him belt, braces and chastity belt but we were cheated in the Season 92-93. That should have been our time ! Only time i've ever cried at the football. Was greeting like a wee lassie at the end of the CSKA match. That was very emotional,and watching players like McCoist and Gough in tears showed how much it meant. How many times did we hit the woodwork .Not that it would have mattered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo. 952 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Wattie has his faults probably working under Jim McLean for so long that has made him belt, braces and chastity belt but we were cheated in the Season 92-93. That should have been our time ! Only time i've ever cried at the football. Was greeting like a wee lassie at the end of the CSKA match. That was very emotional,and watching players like McCoist and Gough in tears showed how much it meant. How many times did we hit the woodwork .Not that it would have mattered. ...and the fucking Ruskies celebrating a draw as if they'd won the European Cup! Seems so obvious now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayboleLoyal_atb 3,765 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Does not matter - WS has underachieved big time in Europe apart from 2 years. Kaunas to me was unforgoveable. Signing 3 strikers for 7+m and having no CH or midfield! WS should stay to the end of this season, but should then leave irrespective of winning trophies or not. If a had £1 for everytime you have mentioned Kaunas on this forum a would be sunning it in Dubai just now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 this place has been a real treat today..... Everything in the post has been said 1000000 times in the other 40000000 posts on the subject....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmico1986 0 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Wattie has his faults probably working under Jim McLean for so long that has made him belt, braces and chastity belt but we were cheated in the Season 92-93. That should have been our time ! Only time i've ever cried at the football. Was greeting like a wee lassie at the end of the CSKA match. That was very emotional,and watching players like McCoist and Gough in tears showed how much it meant. How many times did we hit the woodwork .Not that it would have mattered. ...and the fucking Ruskies celebrating a draw as if they'd won the European Cup! Seems so obvious now. thats one of my earliest memories of watching rangers. was only seven at the time so didnt appreciate the importance of it,one of the only times i've seen my dad well up. will always remember gough walking off the pitch with blood pouring out of a wound on his head and that bastard of russian goalie who must have been lev yashins secret love child with some of the save he was pulling off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhailichenko 90 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 First of all let's go back to his first spell at Ibrox 1 go at the European cup and 6 goes at the Champions league at a time when Rangers were pretty much matching the spending power of 95% of the teams in the competition. From these 7 goes he was knocked out 4 times by the following might of the continent prior to the group stages 91-92 Sparta Prague* Prior to CL..Knocked out at the first stage 93-94 Levski Sofia 94-95 AEK Athens 97-98 IFK Gothenborg He managed to qualify 3 times for the Champions league in 92-93, 95-96, 96-97 and played 18 ties From these 18 ties he won......3 games!!!! Against the might of Brugge at home, CSKA Moscow at a neutral venue, and Grasshoppers at home....at a time when we were matching the spend in England and most of Europe!!! FFS we had players like Goram, McCoist, Hateley, Laudrup, Gascoigne, Steven, Gough, Michelechenko (excuse the spelling) Boli etc at our disposal, players who were good enough to compete at the HIGHEST level His second time round He has had 3 goes at the CL and his record is Failed to qualify 08-09 Two attempts at the groups stage in 07-08 and 09-10 and from the twelve ties he won....2 games Stuttgart, Lyon So from 30 ties in the CL group stage he has won 5 games!!...or 16% of his games. Yeah his supporters can mention his UEFA cup run, Being one of the lucky ones to have had a ticket for Manchester It was a day never to forget but the CL is the only show that matters, The UEFA/Europa cup is a second rate completions not taken seriously by the big nations...just look at the winners lately. He's had 5 attempts at the CL group stage and failed to qualify why is this? Simply put the mans dinosaur anti football tactics can fluke you a result over two legs by draws or the odd narrow victory but they will NEVER get you enough points over a six game league group to let you qualify....he is one trick pony, 1 man up front, frustrate, hit on the break but ask him to go and win a tie against good opposition and he aint a Scooby. With Scotland he also couldn't lose, He took over when we couldn't qualify and left before his anti football had failed in the next competition, Keep running before the bullets hit Walt! 3 Season at Everton....3 times he finished in the bottom half with his anti football, Moyes takes over and the improvement was instant Memories of tanking after tanking at the group stage Rangers 1- Juve 4 Juve 4 Rangers 0 Grashoppers 3 Rangers 0 Ajax 4 - Rangers 1 Rangers 0 Lyon 3 Rangers 1 Seville 4 Rangers 1 Unirea 4 Yes he gave us 9 in a row, but this is THE RANGERS, Beating Sellik to a title should be a gimme its the CL a club of our stature should be measured on and by god has he failed. The last 23 years have been a lost opportunity for our great club, Europe should have been conquered and we should have been respected. I think it was Guy Roux the Auxerre coach who said we were the stupidest club in Europe. For me that's Smiths and Murray's legacy, a wasted wasted opportunity for Rangers to have claimed their rightful place . Who can defend this truly shocking record? I'll let you off just this one time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
908 14 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is nonsense. Only in the Souness era did we outspend the big English clubs, and even then we couldn't compete with the Barcelonas and AC Milan. When Smith took over first time there was the major handicap of the 3 foreigners rule - which is probably why Souness left for Liverpool. OK we underachieved even then, but we never had 3rd place going into UEFA Cup, etc then. Also what seems to be forgotten is that Smith got us into the last 16 of the Champions League twice, and the last 8 once. McLeish was the first manager to get us through the group stage, but before 1999 there were only 16 teams in it. If you want underachievement, look no further than the Advocaat era. About £100million spent and only one UEFA Cup last 16 appearance to show for it. Yet we were unlucky then, with the draw in 2000, and with injuries in the Champions League in 2001. Ultimately, you only get what you pay for. We would need to spend about £200million each season for 3 years to have a squad capable of winning the Champions League. And even then we would need a bit of luck as well.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone 7,678 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 this place has been a real treat today..... Everything in the post has been said 1000000 times in the other 40000000 posts on the subject....... dont open it and dont respond then...simple really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,778 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is nonsense. Only in the Souness era did we outspend the big English clubs, and even then we couldn't compete with the Barcelonas and AC Milan. When Smith took over first time there was the major handicap of the 3 foreigners rule - which is probably why Souness left for Liverpool. OK we underachieved even then, but we never had 3rd place going into UEFA Cup, etc then. Also what seems to be forgotten is that Smith got us into the last 16 of the Champions League twice, and the last 8 once. McLeish was the first manager to get us through the group stage, but before 1999 there were only 16 teams in it. If you want underachievement, look no further than the Advocaat era. About £100million spent and only one UEFA Cup last 16 appearance to show for it. Yet we were unlucky then, with the draw in 2000, and with injuries in the Champions League in 2001. Ultimately, you only get what you pay for. We would need to spend about £200million each season for 3 years to have a squad capable of winning the Champions League. And even then we would need a bit of luck as well.. didnt ever team have the 3 foreigner rule to deal with? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSifter 181 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 This is nonsense. Only in the Souness era did we outspend the big English clubs, and even then we couldn't compete with the Barcelonas and AC Milan. When Smith took over first time there was the major handicap of the 3 foreigners rule - which is probably why Souness left for Liverpool. OK we underachieved even then, but we never had 3rd place going into UEFA Cup, etc then. Also what seems to be forgotten is that Smith got us into the last 16 of the Champions League twice, and the last 8 once. McLeish was the first manager to get us through the group stage, but before 1999 there were only 16 teams in it. If you want underachievement, look no further than the Advocaat era. About £100million spent and only one UEFA Cup last 16 appearance to show for it. Yet we were unlucky then, with the draw in 2000, and with injuries in the Champions League in 2001. Ultimately, you only get what you pay for. We would need to spend about £200million each season for 3 years to have a squad capable of winning the Champions League. And even then we would need a bit of luck as well.. I love how you've presented being in the group stages as reaching the "last 8" and "last 16". Technically correct but he never got out the group stages. Anyone that sees fit to defend his European record do themselves a disservice and just look plain stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccoist355 4 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yes he gave us 9 in a row, but this is THE RANGERS, Beating Sellik to a title should be a gimme its the CL a club of our stature should be measured on... Isnt the whole point that it isnt? our rivals have very sadly had the upper hand on us since the leprechaurn became their manager. Our priority must be to wrestle back domestic domination, and Watty should be judged on that (aka league success) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yes he gave us 9 in a row, but this is THE RANGERS, Beating Sellik to a title should be a gimme its the CL a club of our stature should be measured on... Isnt the whole point that it isnt? our rivals have very sadly had the upper hand on us since the leprechaurn became their manager. Our priority must be to wrestle back domestic domination, and Watty should be judged on that (aka league success) Have they? We've been the best team for the last two years and should be sitting top of the league by a point this year. I think we've wrested that 'domination' back as such. Being cheated out of a title doesn't mean you weren't the best team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbria_blue 51 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 what exactly is our rightful place? name me one Rangers manager from any era who never underachieved in Europe alex mcleish he got to the last 16 of the champions league, and almost made the quarter finals with a team consisting of bosman buys, second rate SPL players, and even a first division player or 2 if i remember correctly The same McLeish that gave us such memorable nights as Zizkov, Panathinaikos and Auxerre? Nah I'd say apart from one season when we made the last 16 we underachieved with him as well. In fact reaching the last 16 was in a way underachieving because I sincerly believe that we could have made the last 8 that year - I still remember Boydie's miss. We also qualified with at least 4 points less than we should have got... My point is EVERY Rangers team has underachieved in Europe. Reaching finals has been the exception - not the rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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