Canadian Bacon

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Thoughts are with you CB. All things in perspective.

We'll still be here when you're ready. WATP

Cheers.

I'll be back....and so will The Rangers.

[Zappa 358]

My wee Mum succumbed to Alzheimer's after a long struggle and to be blunt, right now I couldn't give a running fuck.

What will be will be.

I'll be back next week sometime when our family have taken care of business.

Amen and all that.

Sorry to hear that CB.

[derek1872 548]

Awful thread.

And why dont you wait until this thing plays out before pointing the finger.

Paul seriously come on. Weeks ago it was "whyte is brilliant he won't let us go into administration" now that he has we have to wait and see. At which point will you think its not looking good with the guy. For months its been the fault of the BBC, the record, former owners and directors all saying the same thing. Whyte is no good. Is everyone wrong? I doubt it. I never bought into all the media had an agenda against us Pish. It's surely been shown now that they had a point.

[dan_ger 1,454]

Thoughts and best wishes with CB and his family at this time.

[Chef 436]

Somwthing I missed, who has the TRUTH, I'm all ears.

[minnbear 30]

Cheers.

I'll be back....and so will The Rangers.

Thoughts are with you CB.

Perspective right enough (and I knew at the time you took no pleasure in what you were saying).

[smitzer007 198]

Minnbear - and to the others who support his viewpoint - I take no pleasure in being the first to shout "the sky is falling" as far back as early last year before he bought the club - indeed, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he will still turn things around having got shot of all the debts and the cloud of HMRC - maybe even sell us to a third party (maybe always the game plan?) - but yesterday when all this kicked off (Valentine's Day) my thoughts were far away.

My wee Mum succumbed to Alzheimer's after a long struggle and to be blunt, right now I couldn't give a running fuck.

What will be will be.

I'll be back next week sometime when our family have taken care of business.

Amen and all that.

So sorry to hear of your loss CB. Your RM family is right behind you through these difficult times for you and yours.

[GOAT 30,449]

I''ve said it since he came due to things I've been told and the things you read, it's hardly something I'm happy about that I've proved, infact i am absolutely gutted.

[GOAT 30,449]

Thoughts and prayers are with you and your family CB.

RIP

[bearsrus 12]

thoughts with you and the family CB,

sorry for your loss.

[joker69 60]

All the best CB thoughts and with you and your family.

[delparlane 5,753]

Minnbear - and to the others who support his viewpoint - I take no pleasure in being the first to shout "the sky is falling" as far back as early last year before he bought the club - indeed, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he will still turn things around having got shot of all the debts and the cloud of HMRC - maybe even sell us to a third party (maybe always the game plan?) - but yesterday when all this kicked off (Valentine's Day) my thoughts were far away.

My wee Mum succumbed to Alzheimer's after a long struggle and to be blunt, right now I couldn't give a running fuck.

What will be will be.

I'll be back next week sometime when our family have taken care of business.

Amen and all that.

Very sorry for your loss CB, not helped at all by all that's going on here. Thoughts are with you and the family at this time.

[Bears r us 30,988]

Cheers.

I'll be back....and so will The Rangers.

Very sorry to hear your sad new CB, condolences to you and your family.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

sorry to hear that cb....

[wbairds 24]

We were warned but we were all desperate for t a new owner to take us forward, whyte wasn't that man. He seen a situation where he could make a quick buck and that is what he has done, he doesn't care about Rangers, he is a money making business man who has fucked us over.

i put on here when whyte took over

i researched his team named them as venture capitalists nothing more nothing less

i was called tim impostor,cunt numerous other things,

i too hoped i was wrong,

i havnt been yet

[markybear 136]

Sorry to hear such sad news cb. Puts things Into perspective

[JograBear 1,074]

We are only just in administration.

As I said im going to wait for this to all play out and see what happens with the club, as many have said it could very well be what the club needed or it could ruin us.

And I must ask, if you are planning for administration. Why would you pay it?

Say we went down the pheonix club route, would our debts be wiped out completely? what would happen because surely it isnt that easy.

I think patience is the sensible approach. Everyone is focussing and listening to all the media crap. He is a businessman ffs of course has has dirt to dig up!

If we go the pheonix route we can still have the club and its name/history fully intact with all debt gone. This seems to be what Whyte has been doing in the past so has experience in this matter. I believe Whyte will then pass us onto new owners.

[JograBear 1,074]

For months its been the fault of the BBC, the record, former owners and directors all saying the same thing. Whyte is no good. Is everyone wrong?

The BBC/Record with a track record of rubbishing our club.

Former owners who have put our club in this mess.

Just look at the names your willing to listen to and think again.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

The BBC/Record with a track record of rubbishing our club.

Former owners who have put our club in this mess.

Just look at the names your willing to listen to and think again.

are you willing to listen to a guy wo has lied time and time again to everyone he ha spoken to ?

[BRITNEY IS NOT FEELING IT 8,293]

Minnbear - and to the others who support his viewpoint - I take no pleasure in being the first to shout "the sky is falling" as far back as early last year before he bought the club - indeed, I actually hope I'm wrong and that he will still turn things around having got shot of all the debts and the cloud of HMRC - maybe even sell us to a third party (maybe always the game plan?) - but yesterday when all this kicked off (Valentine's Day) my thoughts were far away.

My wee Mum succumbed to Alzheimer's after a long struggle and to be blunt, right now I couldn't give a running fuck.

What will be will be.

I'll be back next week sometime when our family have taken care of business.

Amen and all that.

Thought with you and your family CB , stay strong

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

Many thanks to all. Much appreciated.

No Surrender people.

Over and out for now.

CB

[jaywalker 377]

The following comments are a direct lift from another forum I use, the man who posted it is usually quite inciteful,I find it bloody scary. Please have a read and hopefully point out it is shite. Rangers got into a lot of debt to satisfy Murray's desire/ego. However the debt was £72m in 2004 and was down to £18m when Whyte took over.

People forget that Murray created a £57m share issue, which was roundly body-swerved by fans and he had to underwrite £50m of the £51.4m raised (i.e. Rangers fans only invested £1.4m into a £57m share issue)

Murray had previously been able to secure additional funding from external sources such as ENIC, Joe Lewis, Dave King, etc. to fund his ego driven approach - and was notoriously unchallenged for his profligacy by the Scottish Media - 'succulent lamb' indeed.

In 2000 they obviously took tax advice and started (like a number of clubs) using EBT's to pay players and staff in a "tax efficient way". Incredibly some of these EBT's were still in place when Whyte took over last year, even although the tax investigation into them has been ongoing for the past 3 years!

HMRC have been trying to close down the loopholes of the EBT's for a number of years, and Rangers happily went down the road of 'everyone else is doing it so why can't we" they were confident they would win any upcoming court case. However, crucially Rangers have "apparently" failed to implement/administer their EBT's correctly and are now woefully exposed on this front. The reason the value got so high is that it's not just the unpaid Tax, it's the penalties and interest accrued (which mounts daily) on a debt that HMRC believe started in 2001. Hence the reason it's got to such levels.

Rangers currently owe HMRC £2.4m for the Small Tax Case (plus the associate penalties) As the Big Tax Case findings have still to be published - they don't actually owe the £70m - theoretically there is a chance they might win the tribunal.

Therefore entering into Administration is nothing to do with the "£70m" debt as it doesn't exist yet.

David Murray may have saddled Rangers with a tax liability (granted a potentially fatal one), however when Craig Whyte took over they were effectively debt free. Since then the club has been run like an absolute shambles:

May 2011: Agrees Deal with Ticketus to mortage a proportion of 3 years of season ticket money for upfront payment of £24.4m prior to buying Rangers.

June 2011: Rangers default on first payment of ticketus deal - they can only afford to pay £3.5m of £9.5m first installment. They therefore extend the mortgage to a 4th year (season 2014-2015) to cover the £6m shortfall. (Bear in mind they'd borrowed £24.4m only *1* month before and now can't afford the first repayment!!! Meanwhile Whyte insists this money was *NOT* used to pay Lloyds their £18m - so where did it go?)

August 2011: Knocks back a £9.5m bid for Jelavic

Sept 2011: Levy and Macrae (Lawyers) take Rangers to court over unpaid bill of £35,000

Sept 2011: Telegraph Interview with Whyte: Did you borrow money against season tickets? "No"

Sept 2011: Judge finds for Martin Bain to ringfence £480,000 for future court action.

Oct 2011: Judge finds for HMRC to ring-fence £2.8m for Small Tax Case (which Craig Whyte agreed to settle as part of his purchasing agreement in May)

Oct 2011: BBC documentary on Craig Whyte stating that he controlled a company whilst serving a 7 year ban as Director.

Oct 2011: Craig Whyte instructs lawyers "to commence immediate legal proceedings against the BBC" No legal action ever taken.

Oct 2011: BBC banned from Ibrox.

Nov 2011: Judge finds for Donald McIntyre to ringfence £300,000 for future court action. Rangers eventually agree out of court settlement with McIntyre in January.

Nov 2011: Lawyers Fyfe Ireland are due to submit for Small Claims of £1,260 for unpaid bill against Rangers holding company. Holding company agrees to settle out of court.

Jan 2012: Trading in Rangers shares suspended due to lack of audited accounts.

Jan 2012: Sells Jelavic for £5.5m - losing the club £4m in value in 5 months.

Feb 2012: Judge finds against Whyte and describes his evidence as "wholly unreliable" during court case for his refusal to pay for work done on his home.

Feb 2012: Whyte finally admits borrowing money against season tickets.

Feb 2012: Whyte refuses to hold an AGM and publish audited accounts due to upcoming Tax Case (even although the Tax case has been ongoing for 3 years and they have been able to publish accounts and have AGM's in that time)

Feb 2012: Administration petition from Rangers Directors

Feb 2012: Administration petition from HMRC due to £9m in unpaid PAYE and and VAT accrued since Craig Whyte took charge.

So you can say all you want about Murray and Co and them running up debt, however all of the above has happened on Whyte's watch, and he certainly is dragging the name of the club to the lowest of the low.

Some Rangers fans have seen through him from the start, whilst others cling to the "he's playing his cards close to this chest - surely there must be a plan"

The plan is most likely to be either pre-pack administration - i.e. the Administrators sell the existing clubs assets to a new "Rangers 2012" and use the money generated to pay off some of the debts of "Rangers 1872". Rangers 1872 essentially then folds. This could also involve selling Murray Park to property developers - such as Andrew Ellis. Rangers 2012 essentially starts again but debt free, however there is continuity of service for employees, etc.

.... or the club is liquidated, and ceases to exist and Rangers 2012 starts up as a new company.

[JograBear 1,074]

are you willing to listen to a guy wo has lied time and time again to everyone he ha spoken to ?

I'm willing to see if what he has been saying has been for the good of the club and to get us out of this mess created by Murray and his drones. He is in a difficult situation so I can understand how circumstances can change making him look like a liar even is he is not. Patience is key here.

Mass protests before we even know the outcome? What good will that do?

What other options are there?

[BRITNEY IS NOT FEELING IT 8,293]

The following comments are a direct lift from another forum I use, the man who posted it is usually quite inciteful,I find it bloody scary. Please have a read and hopefully point out it is shite. Rangers got into a lot of debt to satisfy Murray's desire/ego. However the debt was £72m in 2004 and was down to £18m when Whyte took over.

People forget that Murray created a £57m share issue, which was roundly body-swerved by fans and he had to underwrite £50m of the £51.4m raised (i.e. Rangers fans only invested £1.4m into a £57m share issue)

Murray had previously been able to secure additional funding from external sources such as ENIC, Joe Lewis, Dave King, etc. to fund his ego driven approach - and was notoriously unchallenged for his profligacy by the Scottish Media - 'succulent lamb' indeed.

In 2000 they obviously took tax advice and started (like a number of clubs) using EBT's to pay players and staff in a "tax efficient way". Incredibly some of these EBT's were still in place when Whyte took over last year, even although the tax investigation into them has been ongoing for the past 3 years!

HMRC have been trying to close down the loopholes of the EBT's for a number of years, and Rangers happily went down the road of 'everyone else is doing it so why can't we" they were confident they would win any upcoming court case. However, crucially Rangers have "apparently" failed to implement/administer their EBT's correctly and are now woefully exposed on this front. The reason the value got so high is that it's not just the unpaid Tax, it's the penalties and interest accrued (which mounts daily) on a debt that HMRC believe started in 2001. Hence the reason it's got to such levels.

Rangers currently owe HMRC £2.4m for the Small Tax Case (plus the associate penalties) As the Big Tax Case findings have still to be published - they don't actually owe the £70m - theoretically there is a chance they might win the tribunal.

Therefore entering into Administration is nothing to do with the "£70m" debt as it doesn't exist yet.

David Murray may have saddled Rangers with a tax liability (granted a potentially fatal one), however when Craig Whyte took over they were effectively debt free. Since then the club has been run like an absolute shambles:

May 2011: Agrees Deal with Ticketus to mortage a proportion of 3 years of season ticket money for upfront payment of £24.4m prior to buying Rangers.

June 2011: Rangers default on first payment of ticketus deal - they can only afford to pay £3.5m of £9.5m first installment. They therefore extend the mortgage to a 4th year (season 2014-2015) to cover the £6m shortfall. (Bear in mind they'd borrowed £24.4m only *1* month before and now can't afford the first repayment!!! Meanwhile Whyte insists this money was *NOT* used to pay Lloyds their £18m - so where did it go?)

August 2011: Knocks back a £9.5m bid for Jelavic

Sept 2011: Levy and Macrae (Lawyers) take Rangers to court over unpaid bill of £35,000

Sept 2011: Telegraph Interview with Whyte: Did you borrow money against season tickets? "No"

Sept 2011: Judge finds for Martin Bain to ringfence £480,000 for future court action.

Oct 2011: Judge finds for HMRC to ring-fence £2.8m for Small Tax Case (which Craig Whyte agreed to settle as part of his purchasing agreement in May)

Oct 2011: BBC documentary on Craig Whyte stating that he controlled a company whilst serving a 7 year ban as Director.

Oct 2011: Craig Whyte instructs lawyers "to commence immediate legal proceedings against the BBC" No legal action ever taken.

Oct 2011: BBC banned from Ibrox.

Nov 2011: Judge finds for Donald McIntyre to ringfence £300,000 for future court action. Rangers eventually agree out of court settlement with McIntyre in January.

Nov 2011: Lawyers Fyfe Ireland are due to submit for Small Claims of £1,260 for unpaid bill against Rangers holding company. Holding company agrees to settle out of court.

Jan 2012: Trading in Rangers shares suspended due to lack of audited accounts.

Jan 2012: Sells Jelavic for £5.5m - losing the club £4m in value in 5 months.

Feb 2012: Judge finds against Whyte and describes his evidence as "wholly unreliable" during court case for his refusal to pay for work done on his home.

Feb 2012: Whyte finally admits borrowing money against season tickets.

Feb 2012: Whyte refuses to hold an AGM and publish audited accounts due to upcoming Tax Case (even although the Tax case has been ongoing for 3 years and they have been able to publish accounts and have AGM's in that time)

Feb 2012: Administration petition from Rangers Directors

Feb 2012: Administration petition from HMRC due to £9m in unpaid PAYE and and VAT accrued since Craig Whyte took charge.

So you can say all you want about Murray and Co and them running up debt, however all of the above has happened on Whyte's watch, and he certainly is dragging the name of the club to the lowest of the low.

Some Rangers fans have seen through him from the start, whilst others cling to the "he's playing his cards close to this chest - surely there must be a plan"

The plan is most likely to be either pre-pack administration - i.e. the Administrators sell the existing clubs assets to a new "Rangers 2012" and use the money generated to pay off some of the debts of "Rangers 1872". Rangers 1872 essentially then folds. This could also involve selling Murray Park to property developers - such as Andrew Ellis. Rangers 2012 essentially starts again but debt free, however there is continuity of service for employees, etc.

.... or the club is liquidated, and ceases to exist and Rangers 2012 starts up as a new company.

I dont use other forums , so I've not seen this ,although when you see it in black n white its fuckin frightening reading and looks worse than we could all think ffs

[reddrock 107]

many of us did....

Who wants to get a pat on the back for getting this right though

I said very much the same and got slaughtered ( i understand why ) and you are 100% correct not one of us wanted to be right , we have to hope now that a deal can be done and that someone will step in and take the club over in a correct and proper manner .

i hope against hope that a deal can be done to come out of admin as the alternative to me would be like losing a child .