Union Bears statement

[Bear78 96]

Well it is illegal to beep a car horn, or rev a car engine whilst near, and aware of a horse and rider. I don't know the law for pedestrians, but I don't see any reason why this would be different.

Harsh, perhaps, but you must know the police will be looking for the slightest excuse.

As said, if you are aware the horse is there near you, regardless of the justification of the reason for it being there, it's not a clever thing to do making sudden loud noises. A spooked horse can be lethal to the rider and other people around.

I'm with you on that one, I'd kick the shite out of someone for that if I was on the horse, lol

I seen a van at the end but never knew horses were running about the concourse. You would think al qaeda were present with such a reaction. I'm catching up on this thread and will no doubt change my mind once I discover what the henious crime was which led to this.

[Glowingmonkeyhead 62]

To be fair the Police have a tough job to do and if it werent for fans defending other fans from arrest (which is just stupid) then these situations may never arise.

Often Police will want to take someone out the crowd to have a word or give them a warning. Not allowing this is mob rule and makes us look at bad as the bheasts in TGB!

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

so unless the crime is serious police should allow minor crimes to happen to avoid 'escalation' what nonsense - that attitude says more about the crowd than the police !

So the way Police have been trained for decades is 'nonsense' is it. I suggest you have a look at the basics of policing and the continuing nature of 'policing by consent'. Thankfully we do not have the police force you seem to want us to have at the minute. The problem is that we seem to be heading in that direction and a return to the bad old days that saw the police 'used' politically rather than for the people.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

You are the 'stunningly arrogant' one to suggest I just want to 'have a go' at the police. I was suggesting that if you were reading my posts you may see that I wasn't just having a go. An arrest when it is not necessary is likely to inflame a situation and you should be aware that the job of the police is to defuse situations not inflame them. I've seen the attitude of police and stewards at BF1 from the West Enclosure and on the way in during this season and am aware of how it is possible to police in a more effective manner. I know and have known countless officers as friends and relations and, in the main, support them, I don't do this blindly though as the force reflects the community having both good and bad officers. Still no response to the increased police presence BEFORE anybody had done anything at all that night!

And how do you know the arrest wasnt necessary? Are you a police officer or a highly traibed lawyer, do you know if the person arrested actually didnt break the law or are you simply taking the '' police are cunts'' mantle that seems to be evident a lot on this thread

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

And how do you know the arrest wasnt necessary? Are you a police officer or a highly traibed lawyer, do you know if the person arrested actually didnt break the law or are you simply taking the '' police are cunts'' mantle that seems to be evident a lot on this thread

If the 'arrest' has further inflamed a situation then its at best poorly judged. Again a full reading of the post will show where my information comes from. I don't need to be either of what you suggest to understand that handling things in a less confrontational manner will, in most cases reduce the tension surrounding the incident. Its a guiding principle of stewarding and policing. The fact that the initial alleged offences are of a relatively minor nature suggests that better discretion would have resulted in a less serious outcome. If the male who was allegedly gestured at and allegedly chased had been identified it may suggest a more immediate threat to said person. Arrest is not an inevitable outcome of 'breaking the law'. You needn't be a police officer or lawyer to understand that idea.

As for your last question I really think that the post you are replying to and previous ones will show how laughable your final suggestion is!

[Bear78 96]

I was arrested for nothing by 4 police officers, I was charged with a BOP, resisting arrest and 4 police assaults.

Had this as a teenager. The resisting arrest was me trying to stop them snapping my arm. The BOP was for quietly staggering home.

[BEARGER 339]

Read TBO statement on Gersnet does not really give unequivocal support UB.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

If the 'arrest' has further inflamed a situation then its at best poorly judged.

the reason the situation inflammed is because the UB think they can simply step in and obstruct the police from doing what they think is their job

no matter where you are, football stadium, town centre, anywhere, you try and stop a police officer arresting someoen, no matter your opinion of the arrest, you are the person inflamming the situation, not the police officer

the arrogance of the UB in this incident is the poor at best

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

If the 'arrest' has further inflamed a situation then its at best poorly judged. Again a full reading of the post will show where my information comes from. I don't need to be either of what you suggest to understand that handling things in a less confrontational manner will, in most cases reduce the tension surrounding the incident. Its a guiding principle of stewarding and policing. The fact that the initial alleged offences are of a relatively minor nature suggests that better discretion would have resulted in a less serious outcome. If the male who was allegedly gestured at and allegedly chased had been identified it may suggest a more immediate threat to said person. Arrest is not an inevitable outcome of 'breaking the law'. You needn't be a police officer or lawyer to understand that idea.

As for your last question I really think that the post you are replying to and previous ones will show how laughable your final suggestion is!

.. and yet again you are advocating police ignore 'minor' instances - where do you draw the line at minor - and is that line different at a game or in the street ? kids only throwing snowballs and abusing a pensioner - is that minor ? should that be ignored? so tell me where is this line of minor offences drawn that people should be let off with?

[Bear78 96]

whose side is blue peter 9 on????

I've grown to like the non conventional posters on here for hanging around and proving Rangers is a broad church. They do take some flak for it at times, lol

BP9 has lost me here though with his conformity, which is almost religious in its zeal, because everyone knows the police often do a poor job in implementing the law.

Those silly cop, camera, action type programmes are full of examples of aggressive policing escalating situations and Rangers are no strangers to this problem either.

[Right_To_Censor 1,951]

if the fan was banging the drum next to the horse and it shat it self, then surely the rider should be fined for not picking up its dung

[Bear78 96]

aye right......

.sorry.."we're only doing our job" (sometimes going for an easy option, mind you)...., doesn't cut the mustard

polis have had a free hand to do what the fuck they like against football supporters for as long as I can remember

they are used as a government tool to crack the whip against whoever, be it football fans, miners,

Google 'Louis Althusser state apparatus' for a man who understands why no system whether legal, religious, or political should be blindly accepted and trusted.

[Bear78 96]

I'll leave you to think what you will BP9.

I know what really happened, and I know why it happened.

But we're not here to discuss that, I just threw it in as an exemplum. You can take it or leave it as you wish.

Not uncommon at all. It happened to me and I still have to talk about it with employers. The good thing for me is that even they always know a BOP is a charge that is used by many coppers to create an arrest

[Captain Hilts 12,819]

.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

because everyone knows the police often do a poor job in implementing the law.

do you really think that?

if so i challenge you to go live in one of the hellhole countries that you witness in programmes like "banged up abroad" where the coppers and the whole judicial system are 100 times worse than ours

and even if the British police force do implement the law poorly in your eyes, or anyone elses, there is nothing in the law that states other civilians can take the matters into their own hands

if we allow confrontation with the police then its pointless having the police

Im not saying what the police did last tuesday night was right or wrong, but it was clear from reports on here and elsewhere that the UB were not innocent in all of this, yet some on here will refuse to see this and simply put it down to the police cocking it up

[TheBluenose1972 1,405]

the reason the situation inflammed is because the UB think they can simply step in and obstruct the police from doing what they think is their job

no matter where you are, football stadium, town centre, anywhere, you try and stop a police officer arresting someoen, no matter your opinion of the arrest, you are the person inflamming the situation, not the police officer

the arrogance of the UB in this incident is the poor at best

Are you a young boy? Older bears will tell you that in the stands Rangers fans used to stick together and when the police attempted to lift anyone they got fucking no where...which deterred the police from trying.

Now would you rather let stewards and police walk all over us as they do just now or would you rather want to stand up for your fellow fans and stop this bullying tactics from the police?

[Bear78 96]

so unless the crime is serious police should allow minor crimes to happen to avoid 'escalation' what nonsense - that attitude says more about the crowd than the police !

I realise now that I've read the whole thread that it's you having your time of the month again an bitching to spoil a thread, but police cheerleader ffs, lol

Police often ignore or defer acting on small beer for the sake of public safety when dealing with large crowds, especially if cctv is available. Go to a festival, a political protest, a picket line, an orange parade, or even just on a night out in a busy city centre. Good policing is not just about arresting people. Diffusing situations is supposed to be the priority so batton charges are well ott for me if the alleged crime is not a serious one.

[bubblybear 258]

Are you a young boy? Older bears will tell you that in the stands Rangers fans used to stick together and when the police attempted to lift anyone they got fucking no where...which deterred the police from trying.

Now would you rather let stewards and police walk all over us as they do just now or would you rather want to stand up for your fellow fans and stop this bullying tactics from the police?

Exact reason why police pick on the UB, all young boys and girls, some undesireables in it according to some on here too what chance have they got if some of our own fans take the stance of the police and say if someone is breaking the law, they need dealt with without knowing all the facts! Shame

[Bear78 96]

So the way Police have been trained for decades is 'nonsense' is it. I suggest you have a look at the basics of policing and the continuing nature of 'policing by consent'.

lol

[Jules Gers 66]

who are these parks you speak of?? Are they from Hamilton??

If your`e saying that because I described them as parks then rather than go on and on about what is a park/stadium..

One word...Hampden

OH...

[foxyuk 6]

well guys i hate to admit it !!!!! but no blue order and no union bears ===== no atmosphere

for such a few they make some noise and at times id rather watch them than the game

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

Are you a young boy? Older bears will tell you that in the stands Rangers fans used to stick together and when the police attempted to lift anyone they got fucking no where...which deterred the police from trying.

Now would you rather let stewards and police walk all over us as they do just now or would you rather want to stand up for your fellow fans and stop this bullying tactics from the police?

are we back in the 70's when the polis would simply clip you round the ear and tell you to fuck off, are we back in the day where coppers only arrested someone for an actual crime and not something abysmal thought up by the SNP

No we are not, wether we like it or not (we dont) we live in a state where our actions are more scrutinized than ever before, remember this is a job for the coppers, they dont do their job they can be hauled over the coals for it, or worse

the fact remains that ordinary members of the public tried to step in when a copper was rightly or wrongly arresting someone, that in itself causes a safety issue when fans are struggling against coppers

who gives a fuck what happened in the old days, i remember 50k bears singing the billy boys, does that happen now, does it fuck

simple fact is there has been a couple of contradicting reports from the UB or members of them on here in this thread, can they be believed that they were angels in the who incident?

From some of the posts on here you would think the UB were holding hands singing kumbaya when 100 coppers waded in with stun guns and CS spray, one copper went to arrest someone and the UB that defended him broke the law wether we like it or not (we dont)

funnily enough, see if the UB had came out and said

"Look one fan was arrested and in the heat of the moment a few other UB members tried to intervene, this led to the unsavoury incidents seen in the broomloan front, we apologise for the actions of the members but we feel the police were out of hand and will be making complaints to both the club and strathclyde police in due course"

i doubt anyone would have batted an eyelid, we all know tempers can flare, but the fact that the UB are trying to portray this whole, "we didnt do anything wrong at all" is simply missing things at best, or covering things up at worse

[RFC Eagle 4,888]

.. and yet again you are advocating police ignore 'minor' instances - where do you draw the line at minor - and is that line different at a game or in the street ? kids only throwing snowballs and abusing a pensioner - is that minor ? should that be ignored? so tell me where is this line of minor offences drawn that people should be let off with?

Its not just me that advocates this its the police themselves. The fact is that its the way policing has worked for decades and I am sure you are fully aware of this. Thats why crimes like fraud are now handled by getting a crime number and giving that to the bank to investigate! I don't draw the line its down to a well trained officer with a little common sense. Again you are ignoring the question regarding the extra police that appeared to be around the Broomloan at that particular match. The initial tactic in the cases you throw out is to caution the youngsters to stop and only take further action if they refuse, it rarely ends in arrest or court appearance, again I would be surprised and astounded if you didn't know this.

There are a few here who seem happy to take cheap shots at our own fans and blindly support any police action. I am fully aware times have changed but thats no reason to stand back and let us sleepwalk into the kind of policing that Franco would approve of. The police have to be questioned at all stages of the process if there is a perception they are overstepping their authority. Its back to the concept of policing by consent. They remain public servants NOT political ones, its an idea you seem to have ignored and some officers forget in the course of their duties.

[TheBluenose1972 1,405]

are we back in the 70's when the polis would simply clip you round the ear and tell you to fuck off, are we back in the day where coppers only arrested someone for an actual crime and not something abysmal thought up by the SNP

No we are not, wether we like it or not (we dont) we live in a state where our actions are more scrutinized than ever before, remember this is a job for the coppers, they dont do their job they can be hauled over the coals for it, or worse

the fact remains that ordinary members of the public tried to step in when a copper was rightly or wrongly arresting someone, that in itself causes a safety issue when fans are struggling against coppers

who gives a fuck what happened in the old days, i remember 50k bears singing the billy boys, does that happen now, does it fuck

simple fact is there has been a couple of contradicting reports from the UB or members of them on here in this thread, can they be believed that they were angels in the who incident?

From some of the posts on here you would think the UB were holding hands singing kumbaya when 100 coppers waded in with stun guns and CS spray, one copper went to arrest someone and the UB that defended him broke the law wether we like it or not (we dont)

funnily enough, see if the UB had came out and said

"Look one fan was arrested and in the heat of the moment a few other UB members tried to intervene, this led to the unsavoury incidents seen in the broomloan front, we apologise for the actions of the members but we feel the police were out of hand and will be making complaints to both the club and strathclyde police in due course"

i doubt anyone would have batted an eyelid, we all know tempers can flare, but the fact that the UB are trying to portray this whole, "we didnt do anything wrong at all" is simply missing things at best, or covering things up at worse

Sounds like you've surrendered!

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,779]

Its not just me that advocates this its the police themselves. The fact is that its the way policing has worked for decades and I am sure you are fully aware of this. Thats why crimes like fraud are now handled by getting a crime number and giving that to the bank to investigate! I don't draw the line its down to a well trained officer with a little common sense. Again you are ignoring the question regarding the extra police that appeared to be around the Broomloan at that particular match. The initial tactic in the cases you throw out is to caution the youngsters to stop and only take further action if they refuse, it rarely ends in arrest or court appearance, again I would be surprised and astounded if you didn't know this.

There are a few here who seem happy to take cheap shots at our own fans and blindly support any police action. I am fully aware times have changed but thats no reason to stand back and let us sleepwalk into the kind of policing that Franco would approve of. The police have to be questioned at all stages of the process if there is a perception they are overstepping their authority. Its back to the concept of policing by consent. They remain public servants NOT political ones, its an idea you seem to have ignored and some officers forget in the course of their duties.

See if the fans didnt make it obvious that their story wasnt completely accurate, then they may be defended more, but this story has more holes than the aston villa defence ffs