The banning of the 'Billy Boys' song.

[five stars 1,739]

The idea that any version of TBB is banned and to sing it would be illegal is ridiculous.The first two lines are totally nonsectarian and inoffensive to any reasonable person.

The idea that using the term billy boys is somehow glorifying gang violence is very weak.

The term billy and tim are used to describe a Rangers or celtic fan and are not offensive or indicate any sort of gang sympathies.

[Copland bear 7,966]

Jcbigbear, while I respect your point of view, but billy boy is not offensive as at the end of the song everyone sings what area they are from. So how is this promoting a gang in Bridgeton which most have never heard off? They would need to prove this in court, The other word they wanted banned? Why? It is not just Catholics who can be one off them, it can be Protestant too, It is anyone who from Ireland who wants to wage war and topple the Brits. But they changed the meaning of the word and Murray and co where gutless. I am an east end bear originally who father lived in the area most his life so I think I am qualified to speak about the song. We could have changed the one world to rebel and that was job done but they let them ban the song without a fight, As stated gutless cunts. As for focus who I also spoke with a while back, they have no problem with the words billy boys. What would they do if we sung it again and changed the word to rebel? Nothing! As for the committee who went to Motherwell station? Who exactly told you this? As I would to hear it with my own ears that the words Billy boys is banned. This is all in will say on the matter as I am not getting into the full billy boy's thing again. My late father was called Billy from Bridgeton, I would dedicate the song to him, The club and supporter groups need to sort this out once and for all.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

John Gow had it right in his article:

We have to re-learn what zero tolerance means. Whenever you see prejudice you must respond, and not start giving grades that one form of prejudice is slightly better or worse than another, or that doing it twice is fine because the other guy did it five times. Once we start downplaying hatred and sectarianism or stereotyping individuals because they are a fan of a certain sports team - without judging what the individual actually does - then we have not left the cycle of ignorance and prejudice behind. We are just giving it a boost.

Laws can be changed, updated, repealed, The law on singing offensive songs needs to be updated and made clearer as no-one seems to be accepting responsibility for what is deemed offensive or not, this then adds to the problem rather than trying to address it. The law does not differentiate between sectarianism and social identity.

[five stars 1,739]

If the line Hello, Hello we are the Billy boys were to become illegal to sing then I'm off to somewhere with a more just legal system like North Korea or Burma.

[JCDBigBear 10,860]

Jcbigbear, while I respect your point of view, but billy boy is not offensive as at the end of the song everyone sings what area they are from. So how is this promoting a gang in Bridgeton which most have never heard off? They would need to prove this in court, The other word they wanted banned? Why? It is not just Catholics who can be one off them, it can be Protestant too, It is anyone who from Ireland who wants to wage war and topple the Brits. But they changed the meaning of the word and Murray and co where gutless. I am an east end bear originally who father lived in the area most his life so I think I am qualified to speak about the song. We could have changed the one world to rebel and that was job done but they let them ban the song without a fight, As stated gutless cunts. As for focus who I also spoke with a while back, they have no problem with the words billy boys. What would they do if we sung it again and changed the word to rebel? Nothing! As for the committee who went to Motherwell station? Who exactly told you this? As I would to hear it with my own ears that the words Billy boys is banned. This is all in will say on the matter as I am not getting into the full billy boy's thing again. My late father was called Billy from Bridgeton, I would dedicate the song to him, The club and supporter groups need to sort this out once and for all.

I'm not really stating my point of view, I'm merely pointing out the legal aspect of singing the song, particularly from UEFA and SFA stance. I simply don't want the Club punished.

I also think that the supporters groups should have done something themselves, instead people blame SDM. It was not SDM's responsibility to defend a fans' song. The Club has its own songs which it promotes and the fans have other songs. TBB is not a Rangers FC song, it is a song sung by Rangers fans. There is a difference. There was an original version pre-dating TBB which had RFC lyrics.

I'm also an east end Bear originally and have sung TBB on countless occasions. To be honest, I prefer the Rangers version but that wasn't the point I was making on this thread.

I'll finish by saying if the fans want to do something about bringing the song back then it is up to the fans to do something about it themselves. It is not the responsibility of RFC to bring back a song which isn't really about Rangers and which could land the Club in deep trouble with the authorities. We also have the prospect of many fans refusing to change the lyrics either through stubbornness or alcohol or both.

[Non_Sucumbi 876]

If the line Hello, Hello we are the Billy boys were to become illegal to sing then I'm off to somewhere with a more just legal system like North Korea or Burma.

HA HA HA ABSOLUTE PISH, Neither the Burmese nor the North Koreans would tolerate that fukker McKaskill.

[One Jock Wallace 858]

Enjoyed reading the history of Billy Fullerton & the old gang stuff. Cheers ES for posting.

Does anyone know any decent books covering this era?

[Bluejon 47]

Lazio for a start have to close part of their ground after recent game v Legia Warsaw.

Rijeka to close part of their ground after a recent game against Real Betis.

AC Milan have to play a Serie A game behind closed doors for fans abusing Juventus.

Inter and Roma also have partial stadium bans.

As for the letter to RFC from UEFA, I never mentioned it in the first place. No I don't believe it was a Murray/Bain fabrication and it is irrelevant now in any case.

I don't care if you or any other Bears sing TBB, just don't do it whilst watching Rangers or going to a Rangers game. Leave the Club out of it.

The clubs quoted here (and a few others) are being done for racist chanting, not 'sectarianism'. It would seem, in my opinion, that 'sectarianism' in football is unique to Scotland due to the considerable influence the roman catholic church has within the political and judicial systems. Since the banning of the Billy Boys song, they have come at us with everything they possibly can, even the Charity work. If they can't find anything to complain about, they make stories up i.e. sectarian attack on a dog.

There are, no doubt, some fans who believe the club will be punished if we don't do as we're told and stop singing the song. But at what point will these people decide 'enough is enough'? I suspect that will be when we're banned from wearing anything blue, or cheering the team on, in case it causes anyone to be 'offended'. Winning back the right to sing the songs of OUR choice will, I believe, be a step forward in stemming the tide of, what appears to be, an anti-protestant agenda being pushed on us by a Republican Scottish government.

[shankillblue1 349]

Apologists are the problem! End of.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

Enjoyed reading the history of Billy Fullerton & the old gang stuff. Cheers ES for posting.

Does anyone know any decent books covering this era?

Google it, the stuff about the KKK and fascism is just delightful.

[JCDBigBear 10,860]

Winning back the right to sing the songs of OUR choice .

What are your plans in this regard?

[jimgers 565]

The song can't be banned as i hear it all the time being sung in England, ok the verse is different to other clubs i.e "hello hello we are the Busby boys" etc. Small change in the words in one verse and we can sing it again like many other clubs do.

[One Jock Wallace 858]

Google it, the stuff about the KKK and fascism is just delightful.

Well I'm not interested in the KKK or fascism. More the history & geography of the various gangs that gave the city it's "No mean city" label

[gogzy 31,195]

I heard a Uefa representative (think it was Kapl) on the radio stating that "any form of the Billy Boys was not acceptable)

He is talking shite. If we come up with a new version that has no secatrian connotations, there is not a damn thing UEFA can do.

[Bad Robot 21,512]

He is talking shite. If we come up with a new version that has no secatrian connotations, there is not a damn thing UEFA can do.

I agree and the first step is getting it accepted at a local level prior to Uefa getting involved.

I done a poll on here and it was dissapointed that only 123 people responded:

http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=258313&st=60#entry1061363490

[Sweetheart 8,458]

Enjoyed reading the history of Billy Fullerton & the old gang stuff. Cheers ES for posting.

Does anyone know any decent books covering this era?

Books:

City of Gangs: Glasgow and the Rise of the British GangsterBy Andrew Davies http://www.hodder.co.uk/books/detail.page?isbn=9781444763751

Cloak without dagger Percy Sillitoe (Author), Rt. Hon. C.R. Attlee (Foreword) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cloak-without-dagger-Percy-Sillitoe/dp/B001NN1F5W

[One Jock Wallace 858]

Books:

City of Gangs: Glasgow and the Rise of the British GangsterBy Andrew Davies www.hodder.co.uk/books/detail.page?

isbn=9781444763751'>http://www.hodder.co.uk/books/detail.page?isbn=9781444763751

Cloak without dagger Percy Sillitoe (Author), Rt. Hon. C.R. Attlee (Foreword) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cloak-without-dagger-Percy-Sillitoe/dp/B001NN1F5W

Cheers!

[islandblue 366]

Change the third line to We sing the Sash and Derrys Walls Surrender and you'll die.Nobody can be convicted of that though the handwringers will anguish

[Bluejon 47]

What are your plans in this regard?

As has already been stated, laws can be changed. To change these particular laws would require a campaign that educates people about the dangers of allowing any government a free hand in creating policy which goes against the rights and privileges of the people they are supposed to 'look after'. Politicians fear only two things - negative exposure, and elections. The Scottish government, as well as Glasgow City Council have been allowed to treat us as they wish, in my opinion, because of apathy on the part of the electorate. If the groups of fans who were responsible for the protests about the Board etc were as passionate about supporting our rights, I believe a big change could be made to the make-up of Glasgow City Council, which in turn would make members of the Scottish Government sit up and pay attention.

I have already started on the road to helping people become aware of the dangers of allowing the Roman Catholic propaganda machine a free hand. We have an uphill struggle ahead of us, mainly because for years we have allowed them to spread their lies and innuendo without challenge.

[legalbeagle 3,734]

Change the third line to We sing the Sash and Derrys Walls Surrender and you'll die.Nobody can be convicted of that though the handwringers will anguish

Call people like me handwringer? You're the one demanding freedom of speech you bleeding heart liberal

[islandblue 366]

Call people like me handwringer? You're the one demanding freedom of speech you bleeding heart liberal

Christ never been called a liberal before . Need to save this thread

[nachothelegend 1,932]

Could I sing it and get away with it being based on my name?

Billy is my name btw.

Just a thought.

Or is my name offensive too?

FFS. Where does this shit end?

[Bluejon 47]

A member on Rangerschat tonight has stated he has asked the SFA about the banning of the song and has been told they know nothing about it. The ban was imposed by Rangers, and nobody else.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

True, everyone seems to clam up when asked about the letter from UEFA as well.

Found one reference to the UEFA letter: http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_06052conti.shtml

The UEFA report concluded that such songs were part of "Scotland's social and historical background."

It declared: "After studying the evidence at hand, as well as the statement of Rangers FC, the Control and Disciplinary Body concedes that the supporters have been singing the 'Billy Boys' for years during national and international matches without either the Scottish football or governmental authorities being able to intervene. The result is that this song is now somewhat tolerated."

"Given this social and historical context UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour that has been tolerated for years."

[Gaffbear 4,104]

Traitors