Should we play three at the back?

[TMB 14,167]

The best thing about a 3-5-2 is being able to throw your CBs forward for set-pieces.  If you also have a target man up front as one of your two forwards you have 4 men to attack the ball each time it's thrown in there.  It gives you something else to use against teams. 

I'm a big fan of the formation but you do need at least one CDM and 3 no nonsense CBs.

[NeoGeo7 10,650]

Pointless thread.

Murty be like

[jackunion 536]

Yes completely agree,

now all we need is 3 centre backs ?

[GeeSS 512]

For three at the back to work we need a left sided centre back we do not have one so it won’t work  also while I agree that we aren’t blessed with the best centre backs at the moment I don’t think they are as bad as most think. I think the biggest problem is the lack of a proper defensive midfielder and our other midfielders failing to track players running off them  whilst our centre backs need to be improved I feel that the system that Murty deploys hangs them out to dry !

[eastcoastloyal 1]

We need a defence first before we change formation ??

[Sid2103 285]

With the right personal brought in i would like to see this tried out, or at least have it as an option for us.

That goes for the manager as well as i can't see Murty doing anything other than his favoured formation any time soon. But with 3 decent CBs it might force the keeper to stay on his line more, solves that problem as well.

No harm in trying I suppose, but definitely need an upgrade in players and management before we could attempt it, Martin, Alves and Cardoso would no doubt just run into each other if they were to all play together.

[Colin Traive 23,280]

McCrorie is our best midfield tackler and we need to stop thinking about him as a CB (where he toiled in comparison to his time in the middle) and use him to help screen our defenders. Bates would be fine in a back three, possibly Martin too but a new CB would be needed with Aidan Wilson as cover.

Fod

Martin - Bates - New CB

Tav - McCrorie - Jack/Docherty - John

Candieas - Murphy

Morelos

No place for Dorrans or Cummings or, thankfully, Windass.

 

Better sticking to :

Fod

Tav - Bates - Martin/new CB - John

McCrorie

Docherty - Dorrans

Murphy

Cummings - Morelos

Candieas and Jack on the bench

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

To make 3CBs work properly and effectively - and for it to be evident that it is successful - I think 3CBs with both a real talent for defending and plenty of pace would be needed.   I don't believe we have 3 CBs who could sufficiently meet those requirements.

As much as I like to see us scoring goals - and imo we should be scoring a whole lot more - I also think the absolute fundamental of being able to defend properly and on a consistent basis is essential.  

Whoever the manager is to be for next season he has a lot of work to do to create a quality defence.    Until that is done then seriously realistic title challenges look to be just a distant wish list. 

[BlueKnight87 17,469]

15 minutes ago, Reformation Bear said:

To make 3CBs work properly and effectively - and for it to be evident that it is successful - I think 3CBs with both a real talent for defending and plenty of pace would be needed.   I don't believe we have 3 CBs who could sufficiently meet those requirements.

As much as I like to see us scoring goals - and imo we should be scoring a whole lot more - I also think the absolute fundamental of being able to defend properly and on a consistent basis is essential.  

Whoever the manager is to be for next season he has a lot of work to do to create a quality defence.    Until that is done then seriously realistic title challenges look to be just a distant wish list. 

Fully agree we don't have the pace or really the quality to go with 3 CB at this time.

It's a system I would like to see implemented as we have players in tav and John that can play the wing back role in the system

Come the summer fixing our defense has to be the top priority regardless of who's in charge.

We have showing we can score goals vs anyone in the league but the defense has consistently let us down this season. Once we have the solid base at the back more wins will follow.

[cushynumber 25,178]

i honestly think we should have been doing that for a while and we seem to have players more suited to it. We cant stop a hen going up a close at the moment so at the very least its worth a shot.

[Bellshill_Bear 1,105]

11 hours ago, DBBTB said:

It’s mentioned a lot on here by a lot of posters but if you watch this video that breaks down how teams play the system it does seem that it would be far better system for us and the players we have at the moment.

 

Always loved the idea of 3 at the back especially with mcrorie being that ball playing defender the boy was made for that role. The problem being alves and Martin will be part of that 3 man defence with no cover.

 

[StirlingBear72 476]

It's something I'd like to see us move towards. We'd have 3(5) in midfield at two strikers as well. 

Difficult formation to play against as well.

We'll be stuck with 4-2-3-1 for now sadly.

[BlueKnight87 17,469]

18 minutes ago, StirlingBear72 said:

It's something I'd like to see us move towards. We'd have 3(5) in midfield at two strikers as well. 

Difficult formation to play against as well.

We'll be stuck with 4-2-3-1 for now sadly.

Unfortunately we will be stuck with 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and we will likely drop more points because of it

Murty just won't deviate and the teams we are coming up against know the game plan and how to get the better of it.

[StirlingBear72 476]

24 minutes ago, BlueKnight87 said:

Unfortunately we will be stuck with 4-2-3-1 until the end of the season and we will likely drop more points because of it

Murty just won't deviate and the teams we are coming up against know the game plan and how to get the better of it.

De ja vu there. It was the magic hat's downfall too.

I'm not a fan of throwing shite at a wall in hope that it sticks. Genuinely baffling we aren't mixing it up. Outnumbered in midfield every week and nothing changes.

[BlueKnight87 17,469]

10 minutes ago, StirlingBear72 said:

De ja vu there. It was the magic hat's downfall too.

I'm not a fan of throwing shite at a wall in hope that it sticks. Genuinely baffling we aren't mixing it up. Outnumbered in midfield every week and nothing changes.

It's so warburton like it's unreal.

This is where a proper manager is needed. You can't have a 1 formation for all policy. You need to be able to make changes to counter threats other teams possess.

Murty seems unable to do this. I would also be asking why his backroom team aren't pushing for these changed needed either.

[plymouthranger 3,954]

It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work.

McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc)

We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job).

                    Wes

    Bates McCrorie Martin

Tav   Dorrans   Jack   Murphy

  Candeias Morelos Windass

 

That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths!

[Colin Traive 23,280]

20 minutes ago, plymouthranger said:

It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work.

McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc)

We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job).

                    Wes

    Bates McCrorie Martin

Tav   Dorrans   Jack   Murphy

  Candeias Morelos Windass

 

That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths!

If you’re going with 3-4-3, Id swap John for Murphy, push Murphy forward and put McCrorie in for Dorrans at the base of a flat diamond. He will be a great CB and captain one day but we need him in midfield now.

[plymouthranger 3,954]

8 minutes ago, Colin Traive said:

If you’re going with 3-4-3, Id swap John for Murphy, push Murphy forward and put McCrorie in for Dorrans at the base of a flat diamond. He will be a great CB and captain one day but we need him in midfield now.

The problem with that is who do you replace McCrorie with at the back? Alves doesn't work in a back 3, because he's too slow and I'm already doubtful that we'd be solid enough with Martin.

If you play a 3-4-3 rather than a 3-5-2 with wingbacks, you basically need 2-3 mobile and strong centre backs. We arguably have 1 of those in McCrorie, 1 who could do a job in Bates, and then Martin & Alves who aren't suited for it. You can get away with playing 1 of them, but not both.

I'd suggest Cardoso but he can't even defend, so he's arguably just as bad

[sausagetrunks 6,102]

34 minutes ago, plymouthranger said:

It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work.

McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc)

We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job).

                    Wes

    Bates McCrorie Martin

Tav   Dorrans   Docherty   John

  Candeias Morelos Murphy

 

That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths!

that would be mine. 

[StirlingBear72 476]

1 hour ago, BlueKnight87 said:

It's so warburton like it's unreal.

This is where a proper manager is needed. You can't have a 1 formation for all policy. You need to be able to make changes to counter threats other teams possess.

Murty seems unable to do this. I would also be asking why his backroom team aren't pushing for these changed needed either.

Something we'll never know. 

[Colin Traive 23,280]

32 minutes ago, plymouthranger said:

The problem with that is who do you replace McCrorie with at the back? Alves doesn't work in a back 3, because he's too slow and I'm already doubtful that we'd be solid enough with Martin.

If you play a 3-4-3 rather than a 3-5-2 with wingbacks, you basically need 2-3 mobile and strong centre backs. We arguably have 1 of those in McCrorie, 1 who could do a job in Bates, and then Martin & Alves who aren't suited for it. You can get away with playing 1 of them, but not both.

I'd suggest Cardoso but he can't even defend, so he's arguably just as bad

I’m thinking about next season by which time we should have recruited at least two decent centre backs. Assuming Alves and Cardoso don’t feature, we’ve really only got Bates and Wilson. I still see McCrorie as a ball winner although I’ve no doubt he’ll end up at CB. Alongside him we have Dorrans, Holt, Docherty, Jack, Murphy and Candieas so I don’t think midfield is our priority. Two quality CBs, a Moultesque striker and make the Cummings, Martin and Murphy deals permanent. A good manager and that squad would win the league.

[bordersbear 1,105]

1 hour ago, plymouthranger said:

It would work well if we went for a 3-4-3, as we have quick forward players and our midfield isn't overly strong, so a formation that largely bypasses the midfield would work.

McCrorie also has all the attributes to be the middle of the 3 CBs, like an Eric Dier for Spurs/England. The problem with 3-4-3 (and really well outlined in that video), is that it's not a formation that works well for possession based football. It's much more of a system for counter attacking, so you have to play with a rapid front 3 and accept that overplaying it in the midfield isn't the systems strength (see Napoli, Liverpoool etc)

We badly need more mobile centre backs for the formation, as Alves and Martin are slow as a week in jail and that doesn't work, but i'd like us to line up like this and see how it goes in future (and feel it's something de Boer would do well if he got the job).

                    Wes

    Bates McCrorie Martin

Tav   Dorrans   Jack   Murphy

  Candeias Morelos Windass

 

That 11 is far stronger than what we've been playing in recently weeks. In fact looking at it the only weaknesses in that formation are Martin due to his mobility, and Dorrans as he's probably not defensive minded enough. However Dorrans range of passing allows a quick transition from defense to attack which you need to make this work. I'm wasted coaching youths!

Sure you're not just wasted? Like me.

[hammer93 15,137]

With the current squad available I would try RMc in the centre,RM on the right and BA as the left....my major gripe is we don't have a balance especially at home, teams play 1 up against a 4 which sometimes leaves us short in the middle of the park...this should never be an issue with a back 3 against 1 up top

[bordersbear 1,105]

I would go with a                                                                            1

                               10

formation because most of them run about like headless chickens anyway.

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

3 hours ago, cushynumber said:

i honestly think we should have been doing that for a while and we seem to have players more suited to it. We cant stop a hen going up a close at the moment so at the very least its worth a shot.

Which permutation of 3 out Alves, Martin, Bates, McCrorie and Cardoso do you think have enough defensive quality and enough pace to make a 3 CB formation an outstanding success for Rangers?    I'm interested to know if you think we have 3 with enough quality and pace about them for this to work.   Alves is 36 and Martin 32 and their pace nowadays is not, imo, one of their remaining assets.   McCrorie,  Bates and Cardoso are all between 20 and 24 so not much improvement in their quality of pace can be expected imo,   Cardoso rarely gets a game these days, Bates is injured out for the rest of the season it seems and McCrorie had mended to the point where he can be considered for first team action again.  

Which 3 would you pick for the rest of this season, and who would you see starting in a 3 CB formation next season?