Beale's Quick Change of Opinion.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,041]

2 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

That’s a pretty naive and almost childish view if that’s the one the board are taking. If they think that delivering good financially has been because of Wilson then our board are clowns. Good financials come from smart signings. Which he has failed miserably in. I’d hope our board can see that. 

The guy just sold 40 odd million quid worth of player sales in 6 months, he has a massive grace period now, and it isn't just player sales, if Wilson manages to trim the wage budget but keep a squad that beale is happy with then that itself is him doing his job, 

If the football side of it comes in or under budget, then wilson is doing the job on the board side, and while the board may question him regarding the player side of things, he can simply point out that not all transfers work blah blah blah, and the board would find a hard time getting rid

I dont like him, but im a fan thats led by the heart, but im not daft to ignore how he'll be seen to the board

[OrangeRab 3,070]

13 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

The guy just sold 40 odd million quid worth of player sales in 6 months, he has a massive grace period now, and it isn't just player sales, if Wilson manages to trim the wage budget but keep a squad that beale is happy with then that itself is him doing his job, 

If the football side of it comes in or under budget, then wilson is doing the job on the board side, and while the board may question him regarding the player side of things, he can simply point out that not all transfers work blah blah blah, and the board would find a hard time getting rid

I dont like him, but im a fan thats led by the heart, but im not daft to ignore how he'll be seen to the board

The first bit just doesn’t fly. If I was in charge of Barca tomorrow and sold Gavi for £100 million. It wouldn’t be a reflection of my success. That would be on the academy, the footballing structure, youth development.

The question is how much transfer value has Wilson generated for the club. Aribo and Patterson he can’t take credit for. Bassey was identified before he arrived as he has stated in an interview. 
 

So what has he actually been in charge of:

He has signed 30 players with little to no sell on. He’s spent £25 million. And about 2/3 of the team still starting was signed before him.

This is before we talk about failing to cash in on Kent, Morelos or Kamara. And an average squad age several years older than celtic and a squad crippled with injuries.

He deserves no grace period. And the board are idiots if they fall for the “he’s brought in 40 million he deserves a grace period” nonsense.

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,041]

14 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

The first bit just doesn’t fly. If I was in charge of Barca tomorrow and sold Gavi for £100 million. It wouldn’t be a reflection of my success. That would be on the academy, the footballing structure, youth development.

The question is how much transfer value has Wilson generated for the club. Aribo and Patterson he can’t take credit for. Bassey was identified before he arrived as he has stated in an interview. 
 

So what has he actually been in charge of:

He has signed 30 players with little to no sell on. He’s spent £25 million. And about 2/3 of the team still starting was signed before him.

This is before we talk about failing to cash in on Kent, Morelos or Kamara. And an average squad age several years older than celtic and a squad crippled with injuries.

He deserves no grace period. And the board are idiots if they fall for the “he’s brought in 40 million he deserves a grace period” nonsense.

Well he negotiated the sales of patterson, bassey and aribo, doesnt matter when they came in he sold them, like he'll take the flak if kent and morelos leave for nothing when they were here when he came

If you buy a car in a showroom, who gets the sale credit, the guy who sold you it or the guy who bought the car for the garage or the mechanic who kept it well tuned while it sat there? 

[OrangeRab 3,070]

7 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

Well he negotiated the sales of patterson, bassey and aribo, doesnt matter when they came in he sold them, like he'll take the flak if kent and morelos leave for nothing when they were here when he came

If you buy a car in a showroom, who gets the sale credit, the guy who sold you it or the guy who bought the car for the garage or the mechanic who kept it well tuned while it sat there? 

It could well be he’s a master negotiator. But tbh it’s probably not rocket science. Maybe he squeezed out an extra million or two.

But it pales in significance with the real value which is player identification.

Again I could go in and be DoF at celtic tmw and sell Jota and CCV for 10 million a piece. The board would be idiots if they turned around and started treating me like the messiah. My value in that equation is an extremely small part. 
 

But hey he’s still here. So maybe our board do think that way. Worrying times indeed

[Jamie0202 12,565]

19 hours ago, Bears r us said:

I think it is just being realistic about where we are, we all want to win every game we play and every trophy we can. 

I am not sure what more he could have done with the players who are in his squad, they are unpredictable and many cannot do it when the pressure is on.

I am still not convinced he shit his pants against the tarriers, many managers would have done the same and if one of 3 players had cleared the ball their equalizer would not have happened, I know I am in the minority with that view.

We will in the end all judge him on trophies won. 

I don't think you're that much in the minority. Its far too easy to say that he got his subs wrong when it didn't quite work out and the same people saying he got it wrong would be saying the same thing if we brought on Arfield (who I wanted on) instead of Sands and still conceded.

Hindsight is always great but we don't know if different subs would have changed the outcome of the game, especially when there were so many moments of poor defending by individuals in the build up to their equaliser where we could have prevented it. 

[Smell the hotdog 4,055]

28 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

I don't think you're that much in the minority. Its far too easy to say that he got his subs wrong when it didn't quite work out and the same people saying he got it wrong would be saying the same thing if we brought on Arfield (who I wanted on) instead of Sands and still conceded.

Hindsight is always great but we don't know if different subs would have changed the outcome of the game, especially when there were so many moments of poor defending by individuals in the build up to their equaliser where we could have prevented it. 

Poor subs but he’s also hamstrung with masses of injuries and a shite squad.

Tested managers make mistakes never mind untested ones, one of the things we have to put up with and hope it works in the long term. Keen to judge him when he’s got more of his players in, certainly knows how to change the game which is a massive plus for me.

[Bears r us 31,000]

1 hour ago, Jamie0202 said:

I don't think you're that much in the minority. Its far too easy to say that he got his subs wrong when it didn't quite work out and the same people saying he got it wrong would be saying the same thing if we brought on Arfield (who I wanted on) instead of Sands and still conceded.

Hindsight is always great but we don't know if different subs would have changed the outcome of the game, especially when there were so many moments of poor defending by individuals in the build up to their equaliser where we could have prevented it. 

I think it was the game we were playing and the fact we needed 3 points to bring back the league position that made it worse, and Sands was not someone I wanted to see coming on. I would certainly have put on Arfield before Wright but I am glad that I am not the only one not really blaming him for the draw. All about opinions I suppose. 

[Jamie0202 12,565]

1 hour ago, Smell the hotdog said:

Poor subs but he’s also hamstrung with masses of injuries and a shite squad.

Tested managers make mistakes never mind untested ones, one of the things we have to put up with and hope it works in the long term. Keen to judge him when he’s got more of his players in, certainly knows how to change the game which is a massive plus for me.

The point is they're only poor subs in hindsight. If he makes different subs and we still lose an equaliser people would be asking why we didn't go more defensive and shut up shop which is what almost every manager in the world would do. Remember the 3-3 draw against Benfica a few years ago and at the end of the game everyone was saying that needed to learn how to protect a lead instead of throwing players forward?

I wanted Arfield on instead of Sands but we can never know if that would have been the correct call or not. For me the biggest reason we didn't win was our captain being at fault for the 2nd time in the game and not staying on his feet, Jack not putting the ball out for a corner after getting a tackle in against Mooy and them getting the break of the ball after Giakomakis got a quick shot away.

[Stunels 1,265]

Like the point made by op - will reserve judgement on the matter until after his first 2 windows however

[RoboBearToo 403]

1 hour ago, Stunels said:

Like the point made by op - will reserve judgement on the matter until after his first 2 windows however

Me too, although the apparent lack of funds is a worry.

Given the money we got from the Europa run and player sales I think we're probably in a better financial situation now than we're likely to be this time next year.

So I think MBs' going to have to do it through coaching not through the transfer market.

[RFC55 110,285]

3 minutes ago, RoboBearToo said:

Me too, although the apparent lack of funds is a worry.

Given the money we got from the Europa run and player sales I think we're probably in a better financial situation now than we're likely to be this time next year.

So I think MBs' going to have to do it through coaching not through the transfer market.

the player sales are next season ffs, how many times do people need to be told on here l, that and champions league money is next season 

[Jimfanciesthedude 25,041]

45 minutes ago, RFC55 said:

the player sales are next season ffs, how many times do people need to be told on here l, that and champions league money is next season 

Its unreal how people still don't understand how the clubs financials work

[Smell the hotdog 4,055]

4 hours ago, Jamie0202 said:

The point is they're only poor subs in hindsight. If he makes different subs and we still lose an equaliser people would be asking why we didn't go more defensive and shut up shop which is what almost every manager in the world would do. Remember the 3-3 draw against Benfica a few years ago and at the end of the game everyone was saying that needed to learn how to protect a lead instead of throwing players forward?

I wanted Arfield on instead of Sands but we can never know if that would have been the correct call or not. For me the biggest reason we didn't win was our captain being at fault for the 2nd time in the game and not staying on his feet, Jack not putting the ball out for a corner after getting a tackle in against Mooy and them getting the break of the ball after Giakomakis got a quick shot away.

No sure if we can use hindsight for the Scott Wright sub. Not one person sat beside me thot it was going to work out.

[Jamie0202 12,565]

13 minutes ago, Smell the hotdog said:

No sure if we can use hindsight for the Scott Wright sub. Not one person sat beside me thot it was going to work out.

We all know Wright is shite but he's not the reason we couldn't hold on to a 1 goal lead. Shambolic defending from several senior players is. 

[Smell the hotdog 4,055]

13 minutes ago, Jamie0202 said:

We all know Wright is shite but he's not the reason we couldn't hold on to a 1 goal lead. Shambolic defending from several senior players is. 

Part of the reason we didn’t increase our lead though, Sakala was having a field day and moved inside to accommodate Wright, who as usual, did fuck all.

[OrangeRab 3,070]

1 hour ago, Jamie0202 said:

We all know Wright is shite but he's not the reason we couldn't hold on to a 1 goal lead. Shambolic defending from several senior players is. 

I thought he was incredibly naive for the goal. No experienced winger would leave their full back one on one vs Jota, their best player who was fresh on. Even worse considering Tav looked like he was running in sand.

They were creating nothing. He just needed to do what Kent was doing on the other side and track back.

Between him and Sands one of them should have been dropping out to help there.

[Jamie0202 12,565]

13 minutes ago, OrangeRab said:

I thought he was incredibly naive for the goal. No experienced winger would leave their full back one on one vs Jota, their best player who was fresh on. Even worse considering Tav looked like he was running in sand.

They were creating nothing. He just needed to do what Kent was doing on the other side and track back.

Between him and Sands one of them should have been dropping out to help there.

Watch it again as Wright did track back. Kent on the other side let his man (Abada I think) run off him who was completely unmarked for a tap in if the break of the ball had came his way instead of going to Furuhashi.

Anyway there were multiple errors and many opportunities to prevent their goal. The point still stands though that nobody can possibly know if the final score would have been different had different subs been made. 

[RoboBearToo 403]

3 hours ago, RFC55 said:

the player sales are next season ffs, how many times do people need to be told on here l, that and champions league money is next season 

So the money we got for Bassey and the run to the Europa final will be paid next year?

Didn't realise that.

[RFC55 110,285]

5 minutes ago, RoboBearToo said:

So the money we got for Bassey and the run to the Europa final will be paid next year?

Didn't realise that.

bassey money aribo money and champions league money all in next years accounts

[RoboBearToo 403]

9 minutes ago, RFC55 said:

bassey money aribo money and champions league money all in next years accounts

Well thank fuck for that

[Blue72 1,179]

9 minutes ago, RFC55 said:

bassey money aribo money and champions league money all in next years accounts

Is that not just accounting practice (as far as player fees)?  Surely there are a range of options that clubs might pay a fee to another club eg. Up front, over x months/x years, x% up front and then the rest over x years etc? 

[OrangeRab 3,070]

1 hour ago, Jamie0202 said:

Watch it again as Wright did track back. Kent on the other side let his man (Abada I think) run off him who was completely unmarked for a tap in if the break of the ball had came his way instead of going to Furuhashi.

Anyway there were multiple errors and many opportunities to prevent their goal. The point still stands though that nobody can possibly know if the final score would have been different had different subs been made. 

Yeh of course we can’t know. I feel for Beale given the cards he was dealt-our bench is crap. So I’m not overly critical of him.

But I think it would have been more likely we would have won with different subs. And it’s not with benefit of hindsight that alot of fans would have made different changes. wright and sands were both pish when they came on. 

[AljayBoy 2,325]

18 hours ago, RFC55 said:

bassey money aribo money and champions league money all in next years accounts

Yeah they'll be reported in next year's accounts, but for that to happen the money (or some of it depending on payment structure) will have to have been received this year.

 

In other words, the @RoboBearToo 's point still stands - we've received fees for players and should be spending some of that in Jan.

[RFC55 110,285]

50 minutes ago, AljayBoy said:

Yeah they'll be reported in next year's accounts, but for that to happen the money (or some of it depending on payment structure) will have to have been received this year.

 

In other words, the @RoboBearToo 's point still stands - we've received fees for players and should be spending some of that in Jan.

the issue is, the money might be there but for accounting purposes and FFP we need to wait till the next set of accounts i believe before doing more business as we are on their watch list 

[evenstevens 918]

3 hours ago, RFC55 said:

the issue is, the money might be there but for accounting purposes and FFP we need to wait till the next set of accounts i believe before doing more business as we are on their watch list 

It's so tempting to pretend I don't understand and post a question about why we haven't spent the Bassey money yet but I feel like it'd make you scream at your phone