Ally included in celebrations?

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, D'Artagnan said:

I struggle when arguments or debates lose their consistency T.  His conduct whilst manager is indefensible - and had it been anyone other than Ally McCoist I would have been even more vocal than I have been.

D'Art, I love the guy. Because we are going up I've looking at old stuff on Youtube on many a spare moment, and he is there in many of those videos banging the goals in. It nearly brings tears to my eyes thinking back to those days in the context of what this club's gone through. The man is a legend to me, and I cannot think of him as anything else.

[SteveEarle 9,746]

52 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Then again, there's always the first home game of 12/13 against East Fife, going a season unbeaten, beating premiership sides when we were in D3, watching youngsters like McKay and Macleod make their first steps in the game. Taking 35k to Hampden for a league game.

 

 

No offence Dude but there's slim pickings to crow about amongst that list.  35K at Hampden and the first home game of 12/13 says more about the fans loyalty rather than anything to do with Ally's managerial skills.  Of the two youngsters named only one is beginning to show some consistent form under a decent manager.  If my memory serves me well we only beat Motherwell, so a Premiership side, not sides.

I loved Ally McCoist the player.  His playing days will never be in question for me as he was a hero to me as a lad.  The managerial years I would prefer to gloss over out of respect for the man.

As for Ally being anywhere near the celebrations on the last day of the season the very suggestion is ridiculous I'm afraid.  As stated a number of times throughout this thread Ally took his laps of glory after the two titles he won on our return.

This is all about the here and now and we will raise the roof for Mark and Davie as that's what this season is all about.  Ally anywhere near it would sadly be a negative distraction we can well do without. 

[The Dude 20,026]

 

5 minutes ago, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

That's the point, he wouldn't have to, he gets his players fit in training. The dud didn't. 

"We had runs on sand dunes until we threw up. I learned a lot from that, never treat a player that way." - Mark Warburton

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

3 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

D'Art, I love the guy. Because we are going up I've looking at old stuff on Youtube on many a spare moment, and he is there in many of those videos banging the goals in. It nearly brings tears to my eyes thinking back to those days in the context of what this club's gone through. The man is a legend to me, and I cannot think of him as anything else.

I actually understand that bud -  it is not a comfortable place to have to view a hero in a different light.

But the facts speak for themselves - uncomfortable as they are. When we start suppressing or ignoring the truth in order to protect people's legendary status its a dangerous road to go down.

Just ask Celtic FC.

[D'Artagnan 13,319]

4 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

How many people would have defended the actions of our manager over those 3/4 years if he was a foreign manager? I would guess nobody bar BP9...

Spot on.

[thebooler 4,509]

Why do we always want to go back when things are going well? 

Gough, Brown, McCoist, and anybody else from our past. Let them get on with their lives (without the blue pound) and we (Rangers and her fans) can do the same.

McCoist, in particular, should have no place at Rangers on any shape or form.

He put our club back 4 years - he should have done what MW did this season in HIS first season.

When he asked to be released from his contract when it suited him, that was him finished as far as I'm concerned. 

Let's move forward instead of back. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

6 minutes ago, D'Artagnan said:

I actually understand that bud -  it is not a comfortable place to have to view a hero in a different light.

But the facts speak for themselves - uncomfortable as they are. When we start suppressing the truth in order to protect people's legendary status its a dangerous road to go down.

Just ask Celtic FC.

D'Art, and I know I'm setting up an open goal for others to score into when I say this, but will we ever know how good he would or wouldn't have been? In that 4-2 match we came back from 2-1 down at half-time; it was Ally's words that lifted the side that day. That was a great game of football, and it was 4-2 going on 10-2. All I am saying is that there is a particular context in the period that Ally managed the club that does him a disservice to ignore.

[graeme_4 34,520]

8 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Yes. Even them. 

Why on earth would you want them there? 

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, thebooler said:

Why do we always want to go back when things are going well? 

Gough, Brown, McCoist, and anybody else from our past. Let them get on with their lives (without the blue pound) and we (Rangers and her fans) can do the same.

McCoist, in particular, should have no place at Rangers on any shape or form.

He put our club back 4 years - he should have done what MW did this season in HIS first season.

When he asked to be released from his contract when it suited him, that was him finished as far as I'm concerned. 

Let's move forward instead of back. 

McCoist should have won the Championship when we were in the Premiership? 

He put us back four years but we're going into the Premiership a year later than we should have and will be looking to challenge for the title immediately.

 

[cr3_bear 14,862]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

 

"We had runs on sand dunes until we threw up. I learned a lot from that, never treat a player that way." - Mark Warburton

Being fit does not have to mean running up and down sand dunes , if you can't notice the stark contrast in fitness levels between this season and the previous three then more fool you 

[dougie76 15,359]

To be honest l don't think he will be upset if he's there or not. 

[The Dude 20,026]

3 minutes ago, graeme_4 said:

Why on earth would you want them there? 

Like them or not they're part of our history and the last four years in particular. 

[The Dude 20,026]

2 minutes ago, cr3_bear said:

Being fit does not have to mean running up and down sand dunes , if you can't notice the stark contrast in fitness levels between this season and the previous three then more fool you 

I'd probably read the quote I replied to.

[cr3_bear 14,862]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

Like them or not they're part of our history and the last four years in particular. 

And history is where they belong 

[graeme_4 34,520]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

McCoist should have won the Championship when we were in the Premiership? 

He put us back four years but we're going into the Premiership a year later than we should have and will be looking to challenge for the title immediately.

 

What Warburton did in his first season goes beyond winning a trophy. It's rebuilding a broken club, and implementing a positive footballing philosophy with focus upon youth, talent and a positive attitude. 

It's what should have been done when we were put into the 3rd, wasn't and ultimately caught up with us last year in the Championship where we finished behind Hibs and Hearts. 

[thebooler 4,509]

1 minute ago, The Dude said:

McCoist should have won the Championship when we were in the Premiership? 

He put us back four years but we're going into the Premiership a year later than we should have and will be looking to challenge for the title immediately.

 

He should have had us where MW has us 4 years ago, no matter the division. Free flowing football from fit young footballers - not guys like Ian Black and Kevin Kyle trying to catch loose balls.

You are correct about the Premiership though, was it a 15 point lead he lost with a team full of experienced and international players?

[graeme_4 34,520]

3 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Like them or not they're part of our history and the last four years in particular. 

That wasn't what I asked. 

Why would you want them there? What's the upside of it? 

[thebooler 4,509]

4 minutes ago, dougie76 said:

To be honest l don't think he will be upset if he's there or not. 

Correct. He doesn't give a fuck.  Any comments from him since MW took over? No praise for the way the team plays? 

Nothing. Best kept that way.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, thebooler said:

He should have had us where MW has us 4 years ago, no matter the division. Free flowing football from fit young footballers - not guys like Ian Black and Kevin Kyle trying to catch loose balls.

You are correct about the Premiership though, was it a 15 point lead he lost with a team full of experienced and international players?

9 if you take away the games in hand they had. And it's not as though there was anything going on behind the scenes around that time that could have affected the players. Definitely not.

[cr3_bear 14,862]

Just now, The Dude said:

9 if you take away the games in hand they had. And it's not as though there was anything going on behind the scenes around that time that could have affected the players. Definitely not.

A foreign coach throws away a 9 point lead against them and he would be hounded out the door , what makes it acceptable for ally to get away with it 

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Just now, The Dude said:

9 if you take away the games in hand they had. And it's not as though there was anything going on behind the scenes around that time that could have affected the players. Definitely not.

Sorry, but in your defence of McFailure you're now clutching at straws and making yourself look ridiculous. Stop digging.

[Moody Blue Legend 61,467]

51 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Did he really celebrate a Ramsden's second place, or was he trying to lift the troops? I suggest you read about the managerial methods of Brian Clough etc before you start boxing anyone's methods into some sort of convention. Just as well Don Revie was never Rangers manager; giving players massages win, lose, or draw. 

Sorry mate, had to make the dinner there!!

I was hoping anyone reading that knew I was being facetious regarding the Ramsdens.  I'd hope that it wasn't a celebration.  Regardless of what it was and whether Revie liked massaging players or not, it was wrong.

Might give the books a shout for the holidays though!

And I also think Templeton went down the pecking order because the social media pics came from his missus.  Imo,obv.

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, cr3_bear said:

A foreign coach throws away a 9 point lead against them and he would be hounded out the door , what makes it acceptable for ally to get away with it 

Loyalty? I know we're big on demanding it from players and staff but reluctant to repay the favour but sometimes it can be a big things 

Understanding of the various off field goings on at the time? Ever been in a situation where your employer is on the brink of admin? I have. It's fucking horrible. Not knowing if I'll get paid, have a job soon, etc. The last thing on my mind was performing at the best of my capabilities.

 

[cr3_bear 14,862]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

Loyalty? I know we're big on demanding it from players and staff but reluctant to repay the favour but sometimes it can be a big things 

Understanding of the various off field goings on at the time? Ever been in a situation where your employer is on the brink of admin? I have. It's fucking horrible. Not knowing if I'll get paid, have a job soon, etc. The last thing on my mind was performing at the best of my capabilities.

 

Loyalty can only get you so far , if yer shite at something yer shite at something 

 

if your best pal was your gaffer but you were hopeless at your job , would you expect him to keep you on?

[Turnberry18 3,204]

3 minutes ago, Moody Blue Legend said:

Sorry mate, had to make the dinner there!!

I was hoping anyone reading that knew I was being facetious regarding the Ramsdens.  I'd hope that it wasn't a celebration.  Regardless of what it was and whether Revie liked massaging players or not, it was wrong.

Might give the books a shout for the holidays though!

And I also think Templeton went down the pecking order because the social media pics came from his missus.  Imo,obv.

Whether it was wrong or not, he was obviously not celebrating, and some have suggested it was his way of not caring whether we lost or not. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and suggest that he was concerned about players, especially the younger members of the squad, who may have needed a lift.