NeoGeo7

We don't have the players to simply play our way and ignore everyone else. It sounded great at the time, almost like a battle cry that resonated with us because of who we are. Its fine making statements like that if you can actually back it up but we really just look like we are they for the taking every week and all our opponents need to do is look at what our last opponents did and copy it. Warburton reminds me at the moment of someone playing football manager who has one tactic and simply presses continue over and over and just hoping the stars align and we perform well and win.

It does certainly have the same feeling as with the same period 2 years ago but under different circumstances. Warburton has dug himself this hole and if he is capable of playing differently then all he stands to lose is his pride by reneging on the whole Plan B is to do Plan A better. He won't. He hopes that it'll all magically click into place or by bringing on like for,like replacements that it will turn a game on its head. It won't. Whether the manager is stubborn, stupid or tactically inept if we keep going as we are we will finish no higher than 4th. If he has too much pride to go back on his word about the way we play then he has too much pride to resign and we will either see him sacked or he'll remain in charge. i really wanted it to work but last nights performance was the last straw.

Halliday was shite but virtually everyone else was too. Would drop the whole team if we had decent competition.....which we don't.

This. Classic target man and runner scenario. He's no Prso or Hateley but if you have someone alongside him who will run beyond the defenders you might actually get some joy. Lumping the ball to him when he has opposition defenders all round just won't work. also playing 4-4-2 with an emphasis on crossing might work with 2 players INSIDE the fucking box.

As poor as it was to take that long and clearly just responding to the hearts players complaints by the law it was the right call. In the grand scheme of things let's say we got a 1-1 draw tonight as that goal stood even after playing that shite it just delays the inevitable.

If he goes with playing from the back with 4-3-3 (which he will) and we put in another fucking dire performance then we'll lose that record and that's when the majority of fans will want him gone. People say we can't afford to sack him, we'll we sacked Barton (to all intents and purposes) and can we really afford NOT to sack someone who is so stubborn that they don't realise everyone has him sussed before a ball is kicked? Second place is a fucking pipe dream with this current setup. No fight from the players, no appetite or desire to make up for the lack of quality. Manager doesn't pick a team that plays to our strengths or our opponents weaknesses. Absolutely fucking scunnered. No options in midfield or out wide that don't result in us playing absolute pish. We are in a dark place at the moment. With no competition for places players will keep playing shite and think it's ok. I'd play 4-4-2 on Saturday with Garner and Miller up top. With no options in midfield I'd be stuck with MOH on the right, forrester on the left with Halliday and holt in the middle. Tav needs to be dropped after that performance and would love Hill back to help the back line be more composed.

Tonight was crying out for a 4-4-2 with garner as a target man and one off his shoulder. After 20 mins it was clear as day. All he does is swap players and never change the tactics. It's seriously like deja but with mccoist now.

I said it's time for points not performances, today was definitely in that mould. If we get 9 points from these games but play shite will folk be happy with that? It's better than dominating and dropping points. Sadly I can't see us getting 9 from 9

Ignoring wallaces flat footedness that nearly led to goal 4 had sterling not fluffed it I think Wallace has done himself proud. Reasonably assured defensively and didn't look out of place going forward, certainly not overawed by the occasion. Hopefully will give him a lift, result aside, and get back to form where it matters, playing for us!

It's clear we don't have fantastic quality, certainly not for playing two wide and one through the middle, so why not try 2 up top and seeing if that makes any difference......thats right we only know how to play 4-3-3. I don't know if the front players ever will come good at this level under this manager but I do know just trying the same formation and the same subs at the same time week after week will not ever get us where we want to be.

I said in another thread that Warburton has signed players to fit in with his style of play. I thought Barton was going to give us something, but we know how that went, rossiter may give us something but that's if he's ever fit again. Windas,, holt and Halliday offer very little in this respect. Crooks physique would make you think he'd be a suitable candidate but I might just be reading between the lines too much and besides he never gets long enough to show what he can do. would love someone in the Ian ferguson mould (also if they were one of us that would really help too). Even guys like Albertz who wasn't a hard man but was certainly physical enough to have other players just ping off him. Our play isn't varied enough and our squad isn't varied enough and I doubt if Warburton was given 15m in January that this would change.

What I meant from it taking time was it takes time (and money) to put together a squad capable of playing that way as you progress through the levels. So we had free transfers and nomads in the championship where we outspent every club by a country mile which flattered us (plus we caught a few SPL teams off guard). We get promoted and now the same group of players (largely the same group) are struggling to perform. It's not really a surprise. Lets just say we do finish second and get into Europe. Can anyone see Waghorn, O'Halloran, Kiernan, Halliday etc. being able to step up to the mark? So I was saying to buy some time for the manager to get to his end game sometimes you have to have a back-up plan to ensure you win games and keep progressing.

@Inspector Sands the sad truth is that no one at the club is blameless for where we are right now. The board, the management, the players.....each has had a part to play in us underperforming. My point in this thread was that given the constraints surely it would have been better to say "Ok we don't have the quality yet that we need to be able to play this way week in week out against any team in the country and know we will outplay them and get the result". If the board gave the manager £15m in the January window would that solve all of the problems in one fell swoop? Of course not. If the manager went with a 4-4-2 instead of 4-3-3 would that solve all of our problems either? No. There are times where you have to live within your means and if the board are holding back funds and duped the fans (whilst that is not right in any way shape or form) the manager knows what he has to work with and when things aren't working just doing the same things over and over again expecting it to magically come together just isn't going to work.

In patches under Warburton I've seen some of the best football we have played since Advocaat's sides and for that I am grateful and I think that he was a breath of fresh air after the journey's delay in the championship. I get what he is trying to but to do that you need quality and to have quality requires either money to bring in quality or developing quality. Neither of these will happen overnight so what is the solution? Admit defeat and simply play the way all the other teams do around us or take the high road and get days like today where it just doesn't work? The answer for me is somewhere in the middle. Warburton should have used the summer window and pre-season to come up with a Plan B something not quite as pretty but more than capable of grafting out results for the hammer throwing teams like today. Sign players who can outmuscle their opponents on the deck, in the air and use them when required. Get a blend of passing on the deck and lifting the ball when required. That way when your keeper is pressed and they hoof it up the park we might actually have the personnel who can win the ball in the air. The new league cup format gave us a great opportunity to try something different both formation wise and the approach play. Not playing from the back or playing possession based football doesn't need to be 90 minutes every week because then we'd end up in the same (but reverse situation) where everyone knew that we'd play that way (McCoist's sides for instance). If the opposition can't guess what you are going to do ahead of the game they have to adapt and thats where you can exploit the weakness during the game. Every week we set up the same way, we play the same type of football, we have the same subs, the subs are at the same time, the subs lead to no change in shape.....we all see it, we all know it. Yet the manager is undeterred in his quest to play football the right way (as he sees it). I used to think it was commendable, now I feel it is stubborn and i'm also wondering if its all he knows. Had we formed some sort of Plan B who knows how things might have turned out so far. A 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 wingback or a 4-4-2. I think its the fact he won't even try anything different that will ultimately see him succeed triumphantly and pull off a masterpiece or he'll walk due to the pressure or the board will sack him. I also wonder if he truly understands the consequences of them getting 10 in a row? If he did them surely this season would have been about doing what was required to challenge. Play ugly when required to get the ball over the line and get 3 points each week. At least that way we might make it into Europe and get some much needed income that would hopefully make its way back into the team by funding new signings. The big problem for Warburton (and any other potential manager) is that the current squad has been tailored to suit the possession based playing from the back patient build up approach. So that means it's going to be impossible to just switch to playing long balls against certain teams or being more physical in the middle and absolutely bossing a game. However I don't feel this gives a free license to not changing anything. Games like today needed brave management during the match to acknowledge that last weeks XI that played well against Kilmarnock was not having the desired effect today and that we needed to try something different. Bring on WIlson for Halliday, Crooks on for O'Halloran and go to 3-5-2. That would have given us more physicality and more bodies in the middle of the park as well as providing Garner with some much needed assistance with Miller playing off his shoulder. Now had we signed some different players who weren't quite as good with the passing game in the summer and we had tried different tactics against Annan, Stranraer, East Stirlingshire, Linfield etc. we might have something up our sleeve and be able to get the points that ultimately keep us in the hunt and allow us to play for the end game of beautiful football with real quality. I say it after every poor performance that maybe Warburton will surprise us at some point but with each passing week I feel that just won't be the case and the outcome will be inevitable but more a question of when rather than if.

I think if Warburton showed an understanding of points first and actually changed things about during a game when its not working with his favoured approach then I'd be happy to give him longer. The truth is that his stubborn side is his downfall. The big questions though is it stubborness or is it ability?

It's not like its a one off either. We had 11 players signed this summer and yet we see the same subs named and the same ones coming on at t he same time with the same effect....none. Last year we had fewer players and we'd always see the likes of Shiels or Law come on at 60 mins. Had he brought Crooks on and changed the shape to anything other than 433 and we'd at least have forced County to re-evaluate a bit but they had to do fuck all. Their plan worked superbly, it was nearly undone by our early goal but we gifted them a route back into their gameplan.

This is just it, I don't think he gets that at Rangers its points on the board first then worry about the performance and he's doing it the other way around which is fine if you do both but when you drop points to the small clubs in the league you are never going to be challenging. I'm all for trying to play football in a way thats easy on the eye but when it doesn't work you need to have something up your sleeve to graft the points out of the game.

Half time desperately needed, come out flying at the start and get an early goal.

Not necessarily life changing for the best. Often think youngsters take the big transfer too early and then their career completely stalls.

Yeah they seem a bit skewed at the moment but what really gets me is if you take a look at Legomunchers stats, fucking ridiculous, you'd think he was Steven Gerrard in his prime FFS! My own experience with our team so far is that very few seem to perform consistently plus the usual 4-2-3-1 or the 4-3-2-1DM don't seem to be that effective. I've had to go with a flat 3 in the middle rather than a DM or an AM as can't seem to get Holt, Kranjcar, Windass, Forrester or McKay to do anything in that role. Joe Dodoo is excellent though!

"Like a pony, I'm a pony!" Andy doing his Richard Simmons impression from Nutty Professor...

"Na na na na na na na na na na na Andy Halliday Halliday Andy Hallida-ay!"

Players gave their all today. Thought we looked more determined and sharper, more like our old selves which shows it's mainly psychological for the poor performances of the last 6 months. The fact we managed to maintain it for more than a half was the improvement I was looking for. I thought the manager picked the right starting XI today, though I'd have dropped Wallace personally but even he proved me wrong today so hopefully he can use this to get back to his form from last season. Tough game next weekend but play as we did today with the same intensity and determination and we should be ok.

Was the same under mccoist with mcculloch. Being captain should never mean you are guaranteed a start, no one in the teams should ever be guaranteed. Getting in the starting XI should be on merit of your performances.

Unless the formation will be: fods tav, kiernan, hill, wallace MOH, windass, Holt, Halliday garner, miller who am I fucking kidding