Supporters Trusts don't have to fail

[Poetry_In_Blue 1,043]

The Rangers Supporters Trust is far from perfect, but it is the main chance we have of exercising any control of our club! Also, if you're not happy with the way it's run then join and put your point of view across!

I get the feeling that those that criticise the RST are the ones who'll always sit back on their haunches and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to bring fan power to Rangers FC.

:pierre:

Is it the main chance though or another poisoned chalice?

I was a member of the RST but got very disillusioned about the way it was being run and how the trust were trying to achieve their goals. All this talk about having a voice etc if you're a member I found it didn't work that way as senior members of the trust were making decisions before getting their members' views on how they thought things should progress.

I'll leave it at that as I can't be bothered getting dragged into arguments and points I made in the past.

[A Horse With No Name 27]

The Rangers Supporters Trust is far from perfect, but it is the main chance we have of exercising any control of our club! Also, if you're not happy with the way it's run then join and put your point of view across!

I get the feeling that those that criticise the RST are the ones who'll always sit back on their haunches and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to bring fan power to Rangers FC.

:pierre:

Is it the main chance though or another poisoned chalice?

I was a member of the RST but got very disillusioned about the way it was being run and how the trust were trying to achieve their goals. All this talk about having a voice etc if you're a member I found it didn't work that way as senior members of the trust were making decisions before getting their members' views on how they thought things should progress.

I'll leave it at that as I can't be bothered getting dragged into arguments and points I made in the past.

I'm afraid it all comes down to how change comes about - do you achieve it from within or from the outside? If what you say is true you should've stayed and asked for (petitioned) structures that insured members views where heard BEFORE key decisions are made.

How can that be done from the outside?

[samNewton 0]

Interesting that you ignore the rest of my post and focus on one line.

What are your views on the communication issues within the Trust? And do you not find it extremely frustrating that no efforts have been made to improve this?

I didn't know there was a requirement to answer every single point made by a poster. I have certainly not come across it on this or any other forum before.

Suffice it to say that I have explained why I think the situations facing the NUST and the RST (and many other STs) are different - we won the Double, NU got relegated. Until very recently, much of our support hadn't a clue how serious our financial problems were - some still don't. Others - including quite a few on this forum - are seemingly in denial.

Communication between the Trust and its members will improve and steps are being taken in this direction.

With all due respect, you and others have been using this line for the past two years and yet the communication has got steadily worse.

What steps are being taken? Or is this yet another facet of the Trust that the members don't get told about?

I'm not having a go at the RST for the sake of it, i deperately want to see it's aims achieved. But there are many things which concern me about the current set-up.

New members have been added to the RST board recently.

The communications issue is one that needs improving. As of the last few weeks (and presumably the next few) the Trust has had (and will undoubtedly have) quite a lot on its plate, though.

[samNewton 0]

Does that mean the trust was offered an 'associate directorship!?

Given how good a job the RST is doing with the old "Divide and Rule' tactic it's a bit Pot and Kettle, whilst there is disharmony amongst Rangers fans a group in disarray is in pole position to lead a membership scheme or be the fans "voice on the board"is it not ?

So the RST will only back a bid from someone who will have them on the board? Regardless if they were to be the best thing that happened to the club? It's not exactly seeing the bigger picture, surely the priority is to make sure Rangers are in safe hands away from the bank?

Is not also the case you've no interest in what the membership really think? The time factor excuse is a bit insulting considering you've had approx 5 years to gather the views of your membership.

Did you not discuss issues like this at your recent AGM? As good a time as any to gather views from the membership.

TBH, I think you're only interested in bad-mouthing current members of the RST board and twisting words and are not genuinely seeking information or offering positive criticism.

You also seem blissfully unaware that criticisms you make of the RST board apply to people who run this very forum.

[GeneralCartmanLee 313]

The charm offensive continues.....

[RFE 35]

Does that mean the trust was offered an 'associate directorship!?

Given how good a job the RST is doing with the old "Divide and Rule' tactic it's a bit Pot and Kettle, whilst there is disharmony amongst Rangers fans a group in disarray is in pole position to lead a membership scheme or be the fans "voice on the board"is it not ?

So the RST will only back a bid from someone who will have them on the board? Regardless if they were to be the best thing that happened to the club? It's not exactly seeing the bigger picture, surely the priority is to make sure Rangers are in safe hands away from the bank?

Is not also the case you've no interest in what the membership really think? The time factor excuse is a bit insulting considering you've had approx 5 years to gather the views of your membership.

Did you not discuss issues like this at your recent AGM? As good a time as any to gather views from the membership.

TBH, I think you're only interested in bad-mouthing current members of the RST board and twisting words and are not genuinely seeking information or offering positive criticism.

You also seem blissfully unaware that criticisms you make of the RST board apply to people who run this very forum.

Sorry was that too awkward a point to address, TBH you're like the comical ali of the trust the way you go on. I'm very much in the real world.

Where in that post did I bad mouth current board members?

As for bad mouthing, you do a fair job of it on FF

Along with telling a few lies..

Just a pity that these other forums are not interested in olive branches

I believe that was you...

Was the trust offered an 'associate directorship? and did you gather members views at the recent AGM?

Go back though my posts and you will see I have made plenty of valid points and raised concerns I feel should be asked of any fans membership scheme?

I even PM'd TB so I could actually discuss the matter without it developing into a slanging match, I even apologised for the threads going off on tangents.

Are you also suggesting I don't speak my mind regarding the RST board incase I upset the people who run this board? Given that it is THEIR board and they're free to ban, censor, warn me or just tell me I'm wrong, I don't see why that should change my opinion.

[boss 1,941]

TBH, I think you're only interested in bad-mouthing current members of the RST board and twisting words and are not genuinely seeking information or offering positive criticism.

You also seem blissfully unaware that criticisms you make of the RST board apply to people who run this very forum.

You are entitled to your views on the RM high heid yins, and they are certainly ugly enough to speak up for themselves. But your comments are both disrespectful and wrong.

I wonder whether this is part of the 'unity' initiative of the RST. Or does that only apply to some organisations?

[BlueIsTheColour 35]

Does that mean the trust was offered an 'associate directorship!?

Given how good a job the RST is doing with the old "Divide and Rule' tactic it's a bit Pot and Kettle, whilst there is disharmony amongst Rangers fans a group in disarray is in pole position to lead a membership scheme or be the fans "voice on the board"is it not ?

So the RST will only back a bid from someone who will have them on the board? Regardless if they were to be the best thing that happened to the club? It's not exactly seeing the bigger picture, surely the priority is to make sure Rangers are in safe hands away from the bank?

Is not also the case you've no interest in what the membership really think? The time factor excuse is a bit insulting considering you've had approx 5 years to gather the views of your membership.

Did you not discuss issues like this at your recent AGM? As good a time as any to gather views from the membership.

TBH, I think you're only interested in bad-mouthing current members of the RST board and twisting words and are not genuinely seeking information or offering positive criticism.

You also seem blissfully unaware that criticisms you make of the RST board apply to people who run this very forum.

Care to expand on that?

[Adoniram 1,919]

Here's a question for you Sam Newton.

Would you and the RST work with Rangers Media and Vanguard Bears if both sites extended this same olive branch that the RST seem to want to hand out?

Simple yes or no please.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Any Olive branches on the go tonight, or than they just restricted to people who use low traffic forums

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Here's a question for you Sam Newton.

Would you and the RST work with Rangers Media and Vanguard Bears if both sites extended this same olive branch that the RST seem to want to hand out?

Simple yes or no please.

The Olive branch has been offered to the RST and the people who pull the strings,

The chance to unite and oppose the common enemy was refused.

well he can't chop the posts on here

[maineflyer 2]

And you've been where exactly? Some of us have been debating our dire financial position for a decade. It's easy to feel good if you close your eyes and ears.

Rangers' debt was down to something like 6 mill only 3 or 4 years ago. Therefore, the club has not permanently been in a dire financial position. However, the club's overall strategy, seemingly lurching between extremes, does raise concerns.

The RST issued the 'We Deserve Better' statement last January in an attempt to open up a debate on how well the club was being run.

The Trust has surely been at the forefront of bringing concerns about the club's financial performance into the public eye, much to the dissatisfaction of Sir David Murray.

Yes, your right, the RST has been a shining example of all that's best about Rangers. Open, honest, consistent and responsive. Where on earth would we be without them and their massive impact on his club, or you to remind us of what we somehow managed to miss?

Are you trying to start a new religion? Trust in me?

[Adoniram 1,919]

I was hoping Sam would have answered Sou.

Or better still someone from the RST......i may be waiting a long time sadly.

[Carsons Dog 9,878]

David Murray is more popular with large swathes of the Rangers support than the RST are.

What does that tell you about them?

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Some people do not want to unite the Rangers support, they have built their little empire off the back of the Rangers support.

[maineflyer 2]

Some people do not want to unite the Rangers support, they have built their little empire off the back of the Rangers support.

That's getting perilously close to the truth. The weasel words and unrealistic ambitions are all to shore up an increasingly isolated RST/FF leadership. The RST bulldust about fan ownership is being played as a publicity stunt to keep certain individuals in the game here. Individuals who currently see ridicule coming from all sids and worse, see other fan groups starting to communicate openly and work in concert, something Mr Dingwall has never achieved and the RST will never achieve for so long as it hangs its coat on his nail. This dishonest shite has to stop, the RST in its current form is a bottleneck to progress, not a means to achieving it.

[Carsons Army 4,146]

Some people do not want to unite the Rangers support, they have built their little empire off the back of the Rangers support.

That's getting perilously close to the truth. The weasel words and unrealistic ambitions are all to shore up an increasingly isolated RST/FF leadership. The RST bulldust about fan ownership is being played as a publicity stunt to keep certain individuals in the game here. Individuals who currently see ridicule coming from all sids and worse, see other fan groups starting to communicate openly and work in concert, something Mr Dingwall has never achieved and the RST will never achieve for so long as it hangs its coat on his nail. This dishonest shite has to stop, the RST in its current form is a bottleneck to progress, not a means to achieving it.

totally agree, time for the decent people within the RST to ditch the one person who is instrumental in the division between Rangers fans, but he seems to have an unhealthy control over some people

[Zappa 358]

So the RST will only back a bid from someone who will have them on the board? Regardless if they were to be the best thing that happened to the club? It's not exactly seeing the bigger picture, surely the priority is to make sure Rangers are in safe hands away from the bank?

The priority should be Rangers Football Club & it doesn't matter whether it's away from the bank or not. It's actually more important that we have self-sustainability including an emergency facility than self-sustainability without one. Ok, we don't want Muir lingering around for too long, but aside from that there's no real reason to not to have a banking facility available for emergency situations. This is one of the problems I have with fan ownership; I just don't see where the credit facilities come from. Maybe someone clued up on the Bundesliga clubs could shed some light on it?? :pierre:

[RFE 35]

So the RST will only back a bid from someone who will have them on the board? Regardless if they were to be the best thing that happened to the club? It's not exactly seeing the bigger picture, surely the priority is to make sure Rangers are in safe hands away from the bank?

The priority should be Rangers Football Club & it doesn't matter whether it's away from the bank or not. It's actually more important that we have self-sustainability including an emergency facility than self-sustainability without one. Ok, we don't want Muir lingering around for too long, but aside from that there's no real reason to not to have a banking facility available for emergency situations. This is one of the problems I have with fan ownership; I just don't see where the credit facilities come from. Maybe someone clued up on the Bundesliga clubs could shed some light on it?? :pierre:

I mean away from the bank in the current situation, I agree with you I just want Rangers on a secure financial footing which means we go about our business without outside interference. At this moment in time I don't care if the new owners want fans ownership/part or otherwise as long as they have Rangers best interests at heart. I believe the fans group should share this attitude, you make a good point regarding the credit facilities.

Banks base credit facilities on assets and guaranteed income, the fans ownership scheme doesn't guarantee the same income every year. If people are unhappy or fall outs happen then they withdraw their cash, with no major shareholder to underwrite any debt even in the short term that would leave the assets after the season ticket/sponship money has gone.

[EddieBadabing 0]

At a time when the club is in dire turmoil and the RST are achieving good exposure in the papers on a regular basis, is it not fair to say that they should be hoovering up new applications for members and publicising this success?

What has been the uptake in membership in the past two months? I haven't really seen any concerted push for membership to be honest and I find that strange.

I would say that levels of recent membership uptake would give a fair indication of belief in the RST by the support, and it would be interesting to know the figures.

[bluepeter 5,627]

At a time when the club is in dire turmoil and the RST are achieving good exposure in the papers on a regular basis, is it not fair to say that they should be hoovering up new applications for members and publicising this success?

What has been the uptake in membership in the past two months? I haven't really seen any concerted push for membership to be honest and I find that strange.

I would say that levels of recent membership uptake would give a fair indication of belief in the RST by the support, and it would be interesting to know the figures.

:lol:

Oh, sorry, you were serious?

[Frankie 505]

Eddie:

I believe David Edgar was on the radio earlier in the week (or possibly last week) suggesting the Trust now had 'around 2000 members'.

This is an increase of around 600 based on the membership numbers shown by their accounts available at the Trust AGM in late September. If the numbers quoted by DE are true then a ~50% rise isn't bad in just under 2 months.

It will be interesting to see if they can build on these figures given their increased media exposure of late coupled with their promise of a fan ownership model to be released in the next few weeks. DE also suggested on another forum yesterday that the club could be sold by Xmas which is interesting.

I think many interested observers would like to know how the Trust membership fits into that. Do people have to join the RST first? What would the future of the Trust be under a new fan-led club?

PS: Can everyone try and keep these type of threads reasonably civil? Arguments and pointless personal allegations aren't constructive. Appreciate emotions run high but the ownership subject is a crucial one deserving of a bit more respect between opposing opinions. We're not looking to censure debate but if we could all stick to the facts rather than unsubstantiated heresay, I think it would be a tad more constructive.

[Adoniram 1,919]

Still waiting Sam Newton.

Or,like the RST,is it only certain questions you want to answer or indeed can answer.

I'll say it again then for the avoidance of any doubt....

Would you and the RST work with reps from RM and VB for the greater good of Rangers FC

[Lutheran 1]

Still waiting Sam Newton.

Or,like the RST,is it only certain questions you want to answer or indeed can answer.

I'll say it again then for the avoidance of any doubt....

Would you and the RST work with reps from RM and VB for the greater good of Rangers FC

He'll be away asking Mark Dingwall what next to say...

[maineflyer 2]

Eddie:

I believe David Edgar was on the radio earlier in the week (or possibly last week) suggesting the Trust now had 'around 2000 members'.

This is an increase of around 600 based on the membership numbers shown by their accounts available at the Trust AGM in late September. If the numbers quoted by DE are true then a ~50% rise isn't bad in just under 2 months.

It will be interesting to see if they can build on these figures given their increased media exposure of late coupled with their promise of a fan ownership model to be released in the next few weeks. DE also suggested on another forum yesterday that the club could be sold by Xmas which is interesting.

I think many interested observers would like to know how the Trust membership fits into that. Do people have to join the RST first? What would the future of the Trust be under a new fan-led club?

PS: Can everyone try and keep these type of threads reasonably civil? Arguments and pointless personal allegations aren't constructive. Appreciate emotions run high but the ownership subject is a crucial one deserving of a bit more respect between opposing opinions. We're not looking to censure debate but if we could all stick to the facts rather than unsubstantiated heresay, I think it would be a tad more constructive.

That will be the same David Edgar who deliberately lied to Radio Scotland when he announce of air that the RST had "5000 members when it was closer to 1000. Yeah, I'll be believing him as soon as this pig flies past.