TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Anti-Catholicism has "no place in society"? A quite ridiculous statement. how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueIsTheColour 35 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Paedophilia has no place in society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthebluebellsRblue 0 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us its people like you who ruin our culture with this negative shit thats what the darkside want you to think my orange culture is a big part of my life as my father and his father and so on all were orangemen just like our beloved club all created with the same agenda and same princables you never break your tradition catch yourself on coming out with that crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 How I see this debate: We, the current fans, set the agenda for the future. In our future we all want to see Rnagers maintain their sporting leadership, particularily in Scotland but all be competitive on a European basis. How is this best served - a strong fan base. (Up to this point I expect no real dissent). The debate is how do we achieve that. Some think it is by entrenching our selves in Protestant and Unionist causes - some dont. I personally think we need to embrace and engage people on a different level from religion and politics (and it particular religion as the church on all fronts is contracting). Therefore I support dropping, what I see as the baggage of lotalist, unionist and the protestant causes. I also find the fact that we want to take some moral highground aginst them while maintaining a 'up to our knees in fe****n blood' stance. That is not the moral high ground that is the same cess pit of intolerance and hatred that we say we want to avoid. What is important to most fans is the future of Rangers Football Club and as I say, take the football away from these causes and you would be left with nothing, take the religion and politics out of Rangers and you would still be left with the greatest football institution in the world (IMHO). Where do you get this view that its a "cause"? Its not a cause. What you are missing, completely (and it was the main focus of my last article), is that Rangers are a Scottish football team. Scotland is in Great Britain. Our sovereign is the Queen, she is also the head of a particular church. Its not a "cause", its a representation of the general population of the bloody country mate! Rangers werent founded on religious or political ideals, however, back in the days of support your local team, the people who did so were of that persuasion. Again, simple facts. If you take the local area today, it is still the same demographic. Another club was founded solely on religious, national and political grounds, which they continue to this day. There is a difference. You think we need to embrace all others? Thats fine, why do so to the exclusion of the majority? Or, even if as you believe, the minority? That in itself just totally contradicts your OWN argument. Cant be all inclusive with the exception of 1 group now can you? Thats the whole problem with this argument, its, be tolerant of all bar Protestants and unionists. The only part that you, or anyone else can have any kind of chance of putting a valid point across against is the loyalist side of things, however, one person was arguing the other night that timmy has the right to sing their pro-terror songs etc, under freedom of speech, so, surely the same will apply? Not to everyones tastes, but, in this all inclusive utopia..... The other thing is, you want to take religion and politics out of Rangers, however, you cannot take it out of the support. The only way to do so, is force people to change their belief system and political views. The support is representative of a cross section of society, there will be elements you dont like, elements I dont like. Simple fact, yet, part of the magic that makes this club what it is. I do actually get the whole Scottish / British and even Protestant thing (I am after all a Scot/Brit/Ex soldier) and am proud of that heritage - and perhaps I need to articulate that better - what I dont like, which you see on the boards especially, is the 'radicalisation' aspects of that belief syatems and applying it to Rangers as a football team. Its almost as if some want us to pick those corners to the detriment (IMHO) of the club! However the UK, Scotland in particular, has always embraced 'immigrants' we have had huge NI, Italian, Chinese and Pakastani influxes, now we have Eastern Europeans and they add to our depth of culture (IMHO) and do not detract from it. I have no time for anyone who wants to come here and change our rules but have no problems with assimulation of other faiths, traditions and ideas into our culture (On a base level - and you can tell I am a fat b'stard with this - where would we be without Italians (Chippy's and Pizza, Chinese and Indian/Pakastanis Influences?) - So as Scotland becomes, and is, a 'broad' church so should Rangers be. A drive towards two specific causes (Loyalist and Protestant) will marginilise our club to its detriment. Hence why I support a non-political / religious agenda for our club. The question here, what if removing all this, as you prefer, is also a detriment to the club? I think, perhaps where you have a problem, is that nobody is applying the belief system to the team, or the club as such, the belief systems are representative of the support, and, the Club is simply the tie that binds us all together. The part I have highlighted already happens. The reason the songs are sung, and, the flags flown, is that those who do so, believe in that. Fairly simple. You also mention those coming in, "changing the rules", well, by removing what you percieve to be happening, thats changing the rules and alienating a large number of the support is it not? I have a good friend called mohammed, who is a Muslim (fairly obvious), however, he also loves the Protestant and Loyalist side of things, and is a huge Bear. How do you explain that if it is going to marginalise us? WVB is an athiest, yet, an advocate of TBB, so, since he isnt religious, he must just like the song maybe? This agenda for the club you speak of. It doesnt exist! Look at how Murrays minions speak out on those things, how they "defend" the club? They dont in general. The clubs "agenda", is to be successful. Removing the core of your fanbase does nothing but damage the club, financially, and, by reputation. Essentially, everything you seem to want already happens, apart from those pesky fans that go to the games carrying flags you dont approve of, and, singing songs you dont approve of. Nearly a decent point until you brought WVB in !! In this 'discussion' it is both fan base and club - there is no denying our history, but there is debate to be had about our future. I dont support marginalisation in any walk of life - for instance, in 'our' society I think there is a real danger of marginilising muslims, like your mate, due to the associated actions of a few extremists. Similarily those who want us Rangers fans to 'harden' our position as loyalist/unionist/protestants pose a danger of alienating a wider fan base that I think is essential, now and in the future, for our survival as a football club. Thus I advocate removing thse links from our club. Conversely, rather than remove, why not embrace and celebrate ALL of the newer ones too? The effect there could be even greater. People sit and disect things too much these days, they think about things too much. Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal, you could have one of each! The phrase "We Are The People" ?Goes very well with the all encompassing doesnt it. How strong a statement, visually and audibly would it be, to have 1 person from each group, each ethnic background (think a footballing Benneton advert!) etc etc, singing (ok, i will resist) Follow Follow! Rangers dont need to change anything, perhaps highlight the fact we are a broad church WITHOUT putting down the parts you dont like. That would work far better. It opens peoples eyes to the fact that we arent just big bad proddy bigots! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us its people like you who ruin our culture with this negative shit thats what the darkside want you to think my orange culture is a big part of my life as my father and his father and so on all were orangemen just like our beloved club all created with the same agenda and same princables you never break your tradition catch yourself on coming out with that crap. not once have I said we should be ashamed of our culture - in fact I have consistantly said we should celebrate it but at the same time move on from the darker more extreme stuff whats wrong with that? If you want to indulge in that sort of stuff then get active politically and stop using Rangers as a vehicle for views that aren't relevant anymore times have changed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSifter 181 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Moronic "FTP" style anti-Catholicism has no place anywhere and says more about the person saying it than those it's aimed at. Well structured and thought out anti-Catholicism (or anti anything else) deserves to be aired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthebluebellsRblue 0 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us its people like you who ruin our culture with this negative shit thats what the darkside want you to think my orange culture is a big part of my life as my father and his father and so on all were orangemen just like our beloved club all created with the same agenda and same princables you never break your tradition catch yourself on coming out with that crap. not once have I said we should be ashamed of our culture - in fact I have consistantly said we should celebrate it but at the same time move on from the darker more extreme stuff whats wrong with that? If you want to indulge in that sort of stuff then get active politically and stop using Rangers as a vehicle for views that aren't relevant anymore times have changed orangism is what made rangers rangers you cant take that out of the club and who give you the right to tell people to stop supporting rangers seriously you need to look at the fact rangers is a unionist club with strong beliefs plus with a very long tradition and you cant break that even if you think times have changed believe it or not but they havent changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Anti-Catholicism has "no place in society"? A quite ridiculous statement. how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Why are they exempt? One rule for one? Thats whats gotten us into this mess As a side note, I think, the bigot word, and all versions of it should be starred out on this forum, just like f***** is! The problem here is, its a religious organisation with some seriously dubious sides to it, and, on top of that, its logic is flawed and full of loopholes. Its as bad as fundamental christianism. Things like that are ripe pickings for debate and criticism. Especially when the head of it is as, well, we all know his history lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 orangism is what made rangers rangers you cant take that out of the club and who give you the right to tell people to stop supporting rangers seriously you need to look at the fact rangers is a unionist club with strong beliefs plus with a very long tradition and you cant break that even if you think times have changed believe it or not but they havent changed. I didn't say you should stop supporting Rangers at all - I said certain elemants of loyalism (or whatever) has no place at the modern day Rangers Orangeism did not make Rangers - Rangers are a football team, founded by young men with football in mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluepeter9 5,167 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Conversely, rather than remove, why not embrace and celebrate ALL of the newer ones too? The effect there could be even greater. People sit and disect things too much these days, they think about things too much. Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal, you could have one of each! The phrase "We Are The People" ?Goes very well with the all encompassing doesnt it. How strong a statement, visually and audibly would it be, to have 1 person from each group, each ethnic background (think a footballing Benneton advert!) etc etc, singing (ok, i will resist) Follow Follow! Rangers dont need to change anything, perhaps highlight the fact we are a broad church WITHOUT putting down the parts you dont like. That would work far better. It opens peoples eyes to the fact that we arent just big bad proddy bigots! I could go with the first point but many couldn't - but to many your statement 'Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal' is not true - to some that they have these beliefs because they follow Rangers. Its why I like WATP - it is all embracing - follow the Rangers - be one of us! Re: para 3 its is, in particular, the extremisim I dont like and we seem to be trying to move down a your either one of us or one of them road - and there seem to be many on here whose politics and religion are defined by following Rangers, which is shallow in the extreme, thus I think we would be better without any association with either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Anti-Catholicism has "no place in society"? A quite ridiculous statement. how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Why are they exempt? One rule for one? Thats whats gotten us into this mess As a side note, I think, the bigot word, and all versions of it should be starred out on this forum, just like f***** is! The problem here is, its a religious organisation with some seriously dubious sides to it, and, on top of that, its logic is flawed and full of loopholes. Its as bad as fundamental christianism. Things like that are ripe pickings for debate and criticism. Especially when the head of it is as, well, we all know his history lol dont misunderstand me here - the Catholic Church, ANY Chruch or organisation, should not in any way be exempt from criticism. they should be exempt from empty headed bigotry though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wienblue 26 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Culture and tradition are the bedrock of who we are as a people and relevant to our football club and its base; this should be cherished and never forgotten. However, the world and football is global and with an audience who are ripe for marketing and thus the product has to be appealing. Our heritage as a quintessential Scottish/British football club makes us an appealing brand, irrespective of our critics and others who may have a bigoted agenda. Being an international person and having worked in many different countries and cultures throughout the world, the allure of football, especially from Great Britain is all to evident. Particularly, working in the Middle East and its adoration for football presents an excellent opportunity for Rangers as a brand. People like 'Scotland/Great Britain' we and our football are still appealing despite the misgivings of our politics and wars in Iraq etc;. I, myself at a local level have indeed generated amongst my Saudi Arab colleagues an interest in Rangers and at the last Old Firm game of Season 2008/2009 invited colleagues' to my home only for them at half-time to rightly undertake their daily prayers! We have culture and tradition - that is important and we have a global fan base which has also moved us on and extends our marketing reach. Very few have culture, heritage and tradition which indeed is a 'Unique Selling Proposition'...we do; this should be cherished but, we should still embrace diversity. The two are compatible and does not preclude us from being a 'broad church'! Let's not forget whilst some of our adversaries may have their own unique facets cannot be so broad and this provides us with a further competitive advantage and clear distinction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Conversely, rather than remove, why not embrace and celebrate ALL of the newer ones too? The effect there could be even greater. People sit and disect things too much these days, they think about things too much. Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal, you could have one of each! The phrase "We Are The People" ?Goes very well with the all encompassing doesnt it. How strong a statement, visually and audibly would it be, to have 1 person from each group, each ethnic background (think a footballing Benneton advert!) etc etc, singing (ok, i will resist) Follow Follow! Rangers dont need to change anything, perhaps highlight the fact we are a broad church WITHOUT putting down the parts you dont like. That would work far better. It opens peoples eyes to the fact that we arent just big bad proddy bigots! I could go with the first point but many couldn't - but to many your statement 'Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal' is not true - to some that they have these beliefs because they follow Rangers. Its why I like WATP - it is all embracing - follow the Rangers - be one of us! Re: para 3 its is, in particular, the extremisim I dont like and we seem to be trying to move down a your either one of us or one of them road - and there seem to be many on here whose politics and religion are defined by following Rangers, which is shallow in the extreme, thus I think we would be better without any association with either. nice sig Handwringer Loyal - we're taking over the joint! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Anti-Catholicism has "no place in society"? A quite ridiculous statement. how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Why are they exempt? One rule for one? Thats whats gotten us into this mess As a side note, I think, the bigot word, and all versions of it should be starred out on this forum, just like f***** is! The problem here is, its a religious organisation with some seriously dubious sides to it, and, on top of that, its logic is flawed and full of loopholes. Its as bad as fundamental christianism. Things like that are ripe pickings for debate and criticism. Especially when the head of it is as, well, we all know his history lol dont misunderstand me here - the Catholic Church, ANY Chruch or organisation, should not in any way be exempt from criticism. they should be exempt from empty headed bigotry though You misunderstand I think. It could be argued that, regardless o what you personally believe, much of the "empty headed bigotry" towards that organisation could be easily justifed (probably by others since those doing may struggle). Just as with Fundamentalist Christians (BP9 must have come across them living over the pond? The last president was one!) they are pretty much set up to be an easy target, with good reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecky1 4 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us its people like you who ruin our culture with this negative shit thats what the darkside want you to think my orange culture is a big part of my life as my father and his father and so on all were orangemen just like our beloved club all created with the same agenda and same princables you never break your tradition catch yourself on coming out with that crap. not once have I said we should be ashamed of our culture - in fact I have consistantly said we should celebrate it but at the same time move on from the darker more extreme stuff whats wrong with that? If you want to indulge in that sort of stuff then get active politically and stop using Rangers as a vehicle for views that aren't relevant anymore times have changed youve said that about 10 times now, you really should stop, we dont have a darker side or dark past your right people should not use Rangers as a vehicle for religious/political views but i think they are very relevant(these views) in the 21st century, i explain below. times certainly have changed when British people feel like the outsiders in their own country, thats is very sad and it got worse when Blair was in office, member the guy who became a "kaflik" straight after leaving office, you know the guy, with the wife who made it public she hated the queen and the royal family, her with the massive mooth who visited the vatican on numerous occassions, was it to discuss making Britain more "kaflik"? Or was it to be congradulated that so many "Kafliks" were employed by the British Govt. thanks to her husband? Who knows but there are so many "Kafliks" in high up jobs throughout Britain who would just love us to be a "Kaflik" state. They cant possibly support Presbyterian Gordon Brown or C.O.E. Head, Queen Elizabeth. bottom line for me is, Religion has NO place in 21st century life at all, if it was upto me, i would close down every church for every religion in the world and tell these people to get in the real world, get a life and live in peace together. The Vaticans remit is totally different, these cunts want world domination and have been trying to destroy Protestantism since we kicked their cunts in during the Reformation! These bastards dont like Jews either, their allies are the terrorists around the world who claim allah tells them to kill people. These cunts should really be locked up and left to rot. im sure you mean well TWB i just dont like hearing this "our darker side" pish. sorry for going off topic a bit but all is relevant in this debate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgersbear 3,225 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I dont think we need to completely remove our links to Protestantism - just cut off the darker elements of it. I dont think anyone is ashamed of the history but when it manifests itself in anti-Catholicism or para-military singing then it can and will alienate people and will create divisions. people seem to see this as forgetting our roots, but its not - celebrate the good things and move on from the stuff that has no place in society I agree we need to be more about celebrating our own culture and heritage. I would like to know however, just what is the problem with anti-Catholicism? Must we all be, at worst passive, and, at best, in love when it comes to Catholicism? Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Nonsense. Its open to slaughter in modern society all the time now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 [quote name='outlaw69uk' post='4036492' date='Jan 8 2010, 04:06 PM' You misunderstand I think. It could be argued that, regardless o what you personally believe, much of the "empty headed bigotry" towards that organisation could be easily justifed (probably by others since those doing may struggle). Just as with Fundamentalist Christians (BP9 must have come across them living over the pond? The last president was one!) they are pretty much set up to be an easy target, with good reason. Can it be justified to shout it at a football match though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingWilBEARy 4,319 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 youve said that about 10 times now, you really should stop, we dont have a darker side or dark past your right people should not use Rangers as a vehicle for religious/political views but i think they are very relevant(these views) in the 21st century, i explain below. times certainly have changed when British people feel like the outsiders in their own country, thats is very sad and it got worse when Blair was in office, member the guy who became a "kaflik" straight after leaving office, you know the guy, with the wife who made it public she hated the queen and the royal family, her with the massive mooth who visited the vatican on numerous occassions, was it to discuss making Britain more "kaflik"? Or was it to be congradulated that so many "Kafliks" were employed by the British Govt. thanks to her husband? Who knows but there are so many "Kafliks" in high up jobs throughout Britain who would just love us to be a "Kaflik" state. They cant possibly support Presbyterian Gordon Brown or C.O.E. Head, Queen Elizabeth. bottom line for me is, Religion has NO place in 21st century life at all, if it was upto me, i would close down every church for every religion in the world and tell these people to get in the real world, get a life and live in peace together. The Vaticans remit is totally different, these cunts want world domination and have been trying to destroy Protestantism since we kicked their cunts in during the Reformation! These bastards dont like Jews either, their allies are the terrorists around the world who claim allah tells them to kill people. These cunts should really be locked up and left to rot. im sure you mean well TWB i just dont like hearing this "our darker side" pish. sorry for going off topic a bit but all is relevant in this debate If we dont have a darker side or a more extreme element to our support then why has our club come under attack in the last few years? and its not because the media is full of tims, if it were unjustified criticism we were getting then the club would defend us but they cant - they cant defend the indefensible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthebluebellsRblue 0 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Anti-Catholicism has no place in society never mind at a football club - and if we indulge in it then we leave ourselves open to attacks from the press, media, general public with the club powerless to defend us Anti-Catholicism has "no place in society"? A quite ridiculous statement. how so? I dont mean criticising the Catholic Church by the way - but when it comes out as pure hatred and/or bigotry then its a step too far Why are they exempt? One rule for one? Thats whats gotten us into this mess As a side note, I think, the bigot word, and all versions of it should be starred out on this forum, just like f***** is! The problem here is, its a religious organisation with some seriously dubious sides to it, and, on top of that, its logic is flawed and full of loopholes. Its as bad as fundamental christianism. Things like that are ripe pickings for debate and criticism. Especially when the head of it is as, well, we all know his history lol dont misunderstand me here - the Catholic Church, ANY Chruch or organisation, should not in any way be exempt from criticism. they should be exempt from empty headed bigotry though look we could go on here all day and night about this but the fact is rangers isnt just in blue for nothing and nothing has changed and nothing will change you just have to look at the otherside of glasgow for that as most of there supporters are all ira and tri colour lovers as they keep there tradition we keep ours and our tradition never was and never will be negociable if they dont like it they can FO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHammer 10 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 bottom line for me is, Religion has NO place in 21st century life at all, if it was upto me, i would close down every church for every religion in the world and tell these people to get in the real world, get a life and live in peace together. The Vaticans remit is totally different, these cunts want world domination and have been trying to destroy Protestantism since we kicked their cunts in during the Reformation! These bastards dont like Jews either, their allies are the terrorists around the world who claim allah tells them to kill people. These cunts should really be locked up and left to rot. Agree with this 100%.. This is a great read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSifter 181 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Can it be justified to shout it at a football match though? I actually agree with you that we are a football Club set up by young men (boys) purely for the love of the game. Only Septic were set up purely for sectarian reasons. CFC - by bigots, of bigots and for bigots since inception. I also agree that Rangers should not be the vehicle for anything other than passionate support of a football club. Suck from FF actually fell out with me for pointing out that Rangers and the OO are not intrinsically linked no matter how much he wishes it to be so. We should define ourselves, not be reactionary and allow the Shettlestons to define us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Conversely, rather than remove, why not embrace and celebrate ALL of the newer ones too? The effect there could be even greater. People sit and disect things too much these days, they think about things too much. Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal, you could have one of each! The phrase "We Are The People" ?Goes very well with the all encompassing doesnt it. How strong a statement, visually and audibly would it be, to have 1 person from each group, each ethnic background (think a footballing Benneton advert!) etc etc, singing (ok, i will resist) Follow Follow! Rangers dont need to change anything, perhaps highlight the fact we are a broad church WITHOUT putting down the parts you dont like. That would work far better. It opens peoples eyes to the fact that we arent just big bad proddy bigots! I could go with the first point but many couldn't - but to many your statement 'Remember loyalist/Protestant/Unionist are not a package deal' is not true - to some that they have these beliefs because they follow Rangers. Its why I like WATP - it is all embracing - follow the Rangers - be one of us! Re: para 3 its is, in particular, the extremisim I dont like and we seem to be trying to move down a your either one of us or one of them road - and there seem to be many on here whose politics and religion are defined by following Rangers, which is shallow in the extreme, thus I think we would be better without any association with either. Of course, to some it may be that, but, they are no less important and belonging than someone who believes in the Jedi, which is something i find ridiculous btw I think that those you refer to, would be far less spikey, if they werent constantly told they were wrong, a disgrace, a bigot etc etc? Just a thought? If you look at a number of forums, they are treated as outcasts, while others wax lyrical about timmy players. You are smart enough to see how that is going to end up? Where we are now, with several camps. I think that coincides well with your comment about extremists and moving down the roads. Thats down to both sides, but, i wonder who will give an inch first? No association wont work, it will offend too many people in our own support, and, for me is plain wrong. It works on the principle that we have something to be ashamed of, and, we dont. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSifter 181 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 If we dont have a darker side or a more extreme element to our support then why has our club come under attack in the last few years? and its not because the media is full of tims, if it were unjustified criticism we were getting then the club would defend us but they cant - they cant defend the indefensible You're on dodgy ground here. The club has always been poor at PR but particularly so under Murray when he would allow attacks on anything other than him, regardless of the facts. Do we have indefensible morons in our support? Absolutely we do but the vast majority are good honest, hard working people that have been thrown to the wolves by the Murray regime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw69uk 123 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 youve said that about 10 times now, you really should stop, we dont have a darker side or dark past your right people should not use Rangers as a vehicle for religious/political views but i think they are very relevant(these views) in the 21st century, i explain below. times certainly have changed when British people feel like the outsiders in their own country, thats is very sad and it got worse when Blair was in office, member the guy who became a "kaflik" straight after leaving office, you know the guy, with the wife who made it public she hated the queen and the royal family, her with the massive mooth who visited the vatican on numerous occassions, was it to discuss making Britain more "kaflik"? Or was it to be congradulated that so many "Kafliks" were employed by the British Govt. thanks to her husband? Who knows but there are so many "Kafliks" in high up jobs throughout Britain who would just love us to be a "Kaflik" state. They cant possibly support Presbyterian Gordon Brown or C.O.E. Head, Queen Elizabeth. bottom line for me is, Religion has NO place in 21st century life at all, if it was upto me, i would close down every church for every religion in the world and tell these people to get in the real world, get a life and live in peace together. The Vaticans remit is totally different, these cunts want world domination and have been trying to destroy Protestantism since we kicked their cunts in during the Reformation! These bastards dont like Jews either, their allies are the terrorists around the world who claim allah tells them to kill people. These cunts should really be locked up and left to rot. im sure you mean well TWB i just dont like hearing this "our darker side" pish. sorry for going off topic a bit but all is relevant in this debate You read my VB article fella?? Certainly would like it if you did, its on that very subject! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntled_bear 157 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yet again this thread is full of every other religion is tolerated, except if you are Protestant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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