Hello, Hello, We Are The Silly Boys!

[OLE SUPER WILBERT 2,475]

The fact that fans, regardless of their stance on any of this, will not be allowed in the stadium to support their team, our team. No matter why, who or how we were 'investigated' for singing these songs, and no matter your opinion on their level of sectarian content (to be honest, songs at matches mean nothing, I've sung them, I don't take it at anymore than banter level) the fact is, fans are being punished, and as such, so are the team from playing the football.

I appreciate that mate but i cant stand other Rangers fans having a go at other bears for singing theese songs as if they are trying hurt the club.

[caseyjones 3,009]

An interesting post, I'm glad you decided to add it to the debate.

We can't all spout nonsense about the 'original Rangers'. If you want to dismiss the social/political/religious aspects of life which affected the support in subsequent years, you carry on, but they are as much about The Rangers as the four young founders, if not more.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

"Most people in the UK are part of" Maybe 30 years ago, not these days.

I know hardly any "religious" people, and the ones that are, are not definitely not practicing, but rather christened at birth, and thats it, they don't attend church, and they don't follow "Gods law of the land", so to speak. I'm not belittling anyone that is actually religious, good on them for having faith in something, I just don't myself.

Protestantism though, has nothing to do with the heritage of Rangers. People forget this. Fifteen years Rangers existed before Celtic, (1872 - 1887,) and in those 15 years, as well as another good 20 (+) years before, and just after the first World War, Rangers had no religious secondary interests attached to the club or it's support. No match report or article mentions it, we had catholic players, and we had an unregonised amount of (irish) catholic following, most of whom I am sure left us for Celtic in 1888, but that's a different story.

It's part of the history, yes, but we were not started as a protestant club, and we did not have any 'anti catholic agenda' as has been stated for years with regarding signings and the such. (I'm talking Maurice Johnston being the 'first' catholic at Rangers in the 80's, terrible journalism to sell papers.) Rangers were started for the love of the football game, unlike our rivals across the city, who were started to raise money for catholicism and poor Irish Catholics in the East End of the city.

I don't have a problem with the club being linked with Unionism and Protestantism, but there is too much of this belief that Rangers ARE a protestant club, just because after World War 1 a protestant following appeared, (a little after the Irish influx to the city in the late 19th Century), the club became part of the religious 'war' that was going on in Glasgow at the time. (Note: The Billy Boys, knife gangs etc).

What happened to the football side of it?

People should follow Rangers in the way they want, but in my opinion, only up to a point. When these secondary interests that are attached to the clubs support suddenly start ruining the primary interest, the actual football, you have to say, when is enough, enough? For three home european games, not a single supporter is allowed to watch from the luxury of a seat inside Ibrox, this includes the ones that are not interested in anything but the football, but have to pay the price because others choose to continue with secondary interests regardless.

Yes, yes, there is debate as to why we were 'dobbed in' for singing songs when the match reports being claimed against, stated nothing wrong. But we'd be lying if we said the songs haven't been sung at all over the last two years.

I'll pose these questions to get some minds going.

If Celtic never came to be, would we be in a rivalry with Hibernian? Or would no religion have been attached to our club, because of a lack of catholicism attached to another?

Would our great rivals now be Aberdeen? Hibs? Queens Park? Who knows, if Queens Park didn't stay amateur, maybe the religious war within the city would have attached itself to that club instead, what would our 'traditions and heritage' have been then?

I also wonder what the original Rangers would have thought of all of this? Of the religious attachment to their club, (do remember, it really is their conception, their club)?

From what I remember these original Rangers set up matches to help Celtic gain momentum, and early 'Old Firm' matches were friendly. Are they hand wringers, apologists? They helped raise money for, and nurture a team that we now hate. (This interests me because I've seen McCoist get slagged on here for raising money towards Catholic charities). I can't speak for them, but I will take a strong betting that the founders of this club did not expect it to become embroiled in a religious hate war within Glasgow, I'm not sure most of them even survived long enough to see it start happening either.

This post is serious, and I'm interested in hearing what folk actually have to say about it, instead of getting 'hangwringer, apologist' rubbish as a response.

As I said, I'm not stating we should have to stop singing our songs or drop what some deem our traditions, but I am just questioning it all for discussion and out of interest.

See above McBoyd.

You start mentioning about Rangers interests should be about football only etc etc etc. Despite you proudly flaunting the crown on your avatar on a Rangers forum - Which there is nothing wrong with.

Also, your another one (like the media and enemies) that somehow think this about religion. You mention that far too many times for my liking.

The songs we aren't allowed to sing such as The Billy Boys and Famine Song are fuck all to do with religion. You should know better. You are giving so much credince to our detractors.

[minstral 5,375]

Rangers were glad of all the so called bigots who sing all the bad songs back in the eighties when the glory hunters had deserted us.

[ZX750 31]

Omg I once read the Sunday Mail fuck yer IRA

[caseyjones 3,009]

But it's different if certain fans sing songs despite facing punishment, allowing our team to pick up a ban and now every fan is basically being ejected from the stadium for 3 matches?

People should be able to support the club how they wish true, and if it wasn't affecting the football side of things, it wouldn't bother me, I've never had a problem with any of the songs or anything attached to Rangers, but in the light of what's happened, no matter the cause, it's a different story.

3 matches behind closed doors? How do I keep missing these announcements, or have you just made that up for effect?

[McBoyd 355]

See above McBoyd.

You start mentioning about Rangers interests should be about football only etc etc etc. Despite you proudly flaunting the crown on your avatar on a Rangers forum - Which there is nothing wrong with.

Also, your another one (like the media and enemies) that somehow think this about religion. You mention that far too many times for my liking.

The songs we aren't allowed to sing such as The Billy Boys and Famine Song are fuck all to do with religion. You should know better. You are giving so much credince to our detractors.

I think you are failing to see why I have that avatar. My father is Scottish, my mother is English, I am British and the team I support is British. The flag on show is the original Union Flag, showing the Scottish Flag and the English Flag, basically showing my parents combined countries of birth, therefore, showing me. That's why I have it. I do also believe in the Royal Family, and Britain too.

You are seriously telling me that The Billy Boys or the Famine Song are fuck all to do with religion? Really? You should know better.

The Billy Boys's words are based on a protestant knife gang, Billy Fullerton the leader, that went around fighting with catholic knife gangs. What ISN'T religious about it?

The Famine Song, whilst not directly related to religion in the words, is basically telling these apparent "Irish Catholics" (I cannae say I'm roman, but I'm Kafflic) to go home if they love Ireland so much. I get the sense that it's a jesty song, there to wind them up, I don't think it offends anyone, but they as always have found offense in it.

I think you are taking what I am saying the wrong way, but nevertheless, at least you are discussing it in a decent enough manner with me, I've not been called a handwringer or an apologist quite yet

[Broxi 11,740]

with regards to the matches behind closed doors, whenever I see another club that has to do this, i think "they must have really bad fans". We all know were not allowed to sing these songs yet some of us do it anyway? We know we'll get in trouble for it and have done already in the past. It makes our club look very bad to others and it doesnt do the team any good when they have to play crucial european games with no home fans cheering them on. With no automatic places in europe likely next season we could have no support in qualifying rounds and some may not admit it but we could very easily go out of the CL in the qualifiers if we win the league.

The songs need to stop. Its only ourselves were hurting.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

I think you are failing to see why I have that avatar. My father is Scottish, my mother is English, I am British and the team I support is British. The flag on show is the original Union Flag, showing the Scottish Flag and the English Flag, basically showing my parents combined countries of birth, therefore, showing me. That's why I have it. I do also believe in the Royal Family, and Britain too.

You are seriously telling me that The Billy Boys or the Famine Song are fuck all to do with religion? Really? You should know better.

The Billy Boys's words are based on a protestant knife gang, Billy Fullerton the leader, that went around fighting with catholic knife gangs. What ISN'T religious about it?

The Famine Song, whilst not directly related to religion in the words, is basically telling these apparent "Irish Catholics" (I cannae say I'm roman, but I'm Kafflic) to go home if they love Ireland so much. I get the sense that it's a jesty song, there to wind them up, I don't think it offends anyone, but they as always have found offense in it.

I think you are taking what I am saying the wrong way, but nevertheless, at least you are discussing it in a decent enough manner with me, I've not been called a handwringer or an apologist quite yet

Honestly, like seriously?

Regarding your avatar with the crown on it - many people on here take issue with tims and say they are sectarian as the Queen is the head of the Church Of England .. but I'll not argue semantics. Your avatar has nothing to do with Rangers - that's my point.

That's just a point within a point, really. You will consider it Rangers related via assocation - which is the exact same as some of the songs. They have everything to do with Rangers because the fans have always sung them. Simple.

How can you say the Billy Boys is religious? that's amazing.

The Billy Fullarton boys also fought battles with the Parkhead Rebels. Some of the older guys of that I drink with in the pub on a Sunday .. they aren't Catholics.

You can't mix up gang warefare with religion.

The main issue with The Billy Boys is the word fenian. The word fenian is not religious. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER, not me. That's tarrier speel mate.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Honestly, like seriously?

Give it up now, John, it's pointless. The amount of inconsistencies in his argument is astonishing.

[McBoyd 355]

Honestly, like seriously?

Like I said, I've voiced my opinions to cause debate, as much as take interest in what others have to say on the matter, clearly my mindset is different to that of others.

And I'm not taking the piss, I am interested to see what your understanding of the Billy Boys and The Famine Song are.

The above was my understanding of them.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I think you are failing to see why I have that avatar. My father is Scottish, my mother is English, I am British and the team I support is British. The flag on show is the original Union Flag, showing the Scottish Flag and the English Flag, basically showing my parents combined countries of birth, therefore, showing me. That's why I have it. I do also believe in the Royal Family, and Britain too.

You are seriously telling me that The Billy Boys or the Famine Song are fuck all to do with religion? Really? You should know better.

The Billy Boys's words are based on a protestant knife gang, Billy Fullerton the leader, that went around fighting with catholic knife gangs. What ISN'T religious about it?

The Famine Song, whilst not directly related to religion in the words, is basically telling these apparent "Irish Catholics" (I cannae say I'm roman, but I'm Kafflic) to go home if they love Ireland so much. I get the sense that it's a jesty song, there to wind them up, I don't think it offends anyone, but they as always have found offense in it.

I think you are taking what I am saying the wrong way, but nevertheless, at least you are discussing it in a decent enough manner with me, I've not been called a handwringer or an apologist quite yet

1.I'd hazard a guess not everyone sings the song as a tribute to killing catholics,it's a rousing anthem that has been sang by catholic Rangers supporters and this is why the club should be hammering home the fact that we don't go killing people after it.

2.They're not Irish though hence the song not being offensive.

If you wore USA gear and went around acting like you were American and I said maybe you should fuck off there if you like it so much would there be the same outcry?

[McBoyd 355]

1.I'd hazard a guess not everyone sings the song as a tribute to killing catholics,it's a rousing anthem that has been sang by catholic Rangers supporters and this is why the club should be hammering home the fact that we don't go killing people after it.

2.They're not Irish though hence the song not being offensive.

If you wore USA gear and went around acting like you were American and I said maybe you should fuck off there if you like it so much would there be the same outcry?

1. I'd hazard that guess too mate, in my opinion it isn't offensive to anyone, as you said, it is an anthem, but to claim it's words/basis aren't religious is sheer brilliance.

2. I never said it was offensive, I think I even said it wasn't. I'll quote myself "I don't think it offends anyone", I even mentioned that it was in jest to wind them up.

Of course there wouldn't, but that's totally different. At no point did I say they have right to be offended by these songs? I am just saying, the fact that we are now being punished for singing them, makes it a different ball game, regardless of your belief in their level of sectarianism or not.

I don't believe they are sectarian, because 99% of the people singing them aren't bigots, and won't actually hate/want to kill catholics. It's sung at football games, and in relation to football to wind up the opposition.

Honestly, like seriously?

Regarding your avatar with the crown on it - many people on here take issue with tims and say they are sectarian as the Queen is the head of the Church Of England .. but I'll not argue semantics. Your avatar has nothing to do with Rangers - that's my point.

That's just a point within a point, really. You will consider it Rangers related via assocation - which is the exact same as some of the songs. They have everything to do with Rangers because the fans have always sung them. Simple.

How can you say the Billy Boys is religious? that's amazing.

The Billy Fullarton boys also fought battles with the Parkhead Rebels. Some of the older guys of that I drink with in the pub on a Sunday .. they aren't Catholics.

You can't mix up gang warefare with religion.

The main issue with The Billy Boys is the word fenian. The word fenian is not religious. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER, not me. That's tarrier speel mate.

Tarrier speel I love debating with you (until it turns sour that is).

The fans haven't ALWAYS sung them though, that is my point. 1920's onwards, yes, prior to that, no.

Indeed, you can't mix gang warfare with religion. BUT When the gangs involved in the warfare are both of two differing religious sects, you can. The Billy Boys song started for the reason I stated above.

To be honest, the bit in red makes no sense to me. It's been a long day, maybe I am reading it wrong but maybe you'll be decent enough to explain it differently?

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

1. I'd hazard that guess too mate, in my opinion it isn't offensive to anyone, as you said, it is an anthem, but to claim it's words/basis aren't religious is sheer brilliance.

2. I never said it was offensive, I think I even said it wasn't. I'll quote myself "I don't think it offends anyone", I even mentioned that it was in jest to wind them up.

Of course there wouldn't, but that's totally different. At no point did I say they have right to be offended by these songs? I am just saying, the fact that we are now being punished for singing them, makes it a different ball game, regardless of your belief in their level of sectarianism or not.

I don't believe they are sectarian, because 99% of the people singing them aren't bigots, and won't actually hate/want to kill catholics. It's sung at football games, and in relation to football to wind up the opposition.

Tarrier speel I love debating with you (until it turns sour that is).

The fans haven't ALWAYS sung them though, that is my point. 1920's onwards, yes, prior to that, no.

Indeed, you can't mix gang warfare with religion. BUT When the gangs involved in the warfare are both of two differing religious sects, you can. The Billy Boys song started for the reason I stated above.

To be honest, the bit in red makes no sense to me. It's been a long day, maybe I am reading it wrong but maybe you'll be decent enough to explain it differently?

Not a problem.

The whole point in this debate is about how our songs are perceived and how we can get in trouble as a result.

There's a lot of people on here that regard tim anti-monarchy songs as sectarian because the Queen is the head of the Church Of England, therefore, any anti-Queen/monarchy song is religious and you have an avatar with a crown on it on a Rangers forum - it's wee things like this that comes across as double standards and de-values your own argument to an extent.

OK the fans haven't ALWAYS sung Loyalist songs. But since 1920 they have. So for almost 100 years they are part of our fantastic football club by definition. What about the likes of Penny Arcade? that's been sung by some fans at games since what? 2009? does that mean that stops too?

You simply can't go back to before 1920, pick and choose what you think suits you, and then tell others that's gospel.

Again, I'll re-emphasise - the famine song and the Billy Boys has FUCK ALL to do with religion.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

1. I'd hazard that guess too mate, in my opinion it isn't offensive to anyone, as you said, it is an anthem, but to claim it's words/basis aren't religious is sheer brilliance.

2. I never said it was offensive, I think I even said it wasn't. I'll quote myself "I don't think it offends anyone", I even mentioned that it was in jest to wind them up.

Of course there wouldn't, but that's totally different. At no point did I say they have right to be offended by these songs? I am just saying, the fact that we are now being punished for singing them, makes it a different ball game, regardless of your belief in their level of sectarianism or not.

I don't believe they are sectarian, because 99% of the people singing them aren't bigots, and won't actually hate/want to kill catholics. It's sung at football games, and in relation to football to wind up the opposition.

Tarrier speel I love debating with you (until it turns sour that is).

The fans haven't ALWAYS sung them though, that is my point. 1920's onwards, yes, prior to that, no.

Indeed, you can't mix gang warfare with religion. BUT When the gangs involved in the warfare are both of two differing religious sects, you can. The Billy Boys song started for the reason I stated above.

To be honest, the bit in red makes no sense to me. It's been a long day, maybe I am reading it wrong but maybe you'll be decent enough to explain it differently?

Ok so that's a couple of songs you've said you don't think offends anyone.

Do you agree that Rangers should be backing us up then?

This is where the divide in the support lies,we know it's not offending anyone and it's a targeted campaign against the club and you have wankers in our support that automatically turn on the ones singing the songs rather than getting annoyed at the attack!

The club hang these guys out to dry then come out with the begging bowl to them when it comes to season tickets,merchandise,friendlies against AC Milan.

I will always love my club but I'm disgusted with the people who are sitting back and letting everyone have a pop.

[caseyjones 3,009]

Supporting Rangers didn't have a religious side.

I've sung all the songs.

TBB and TFS are about religion.

.........and he wants to be taken seriously!

[martin93 136]

How the hell is TFS religious give us peace man !

[McBoyd 355]

Supporting Rangers didn't have a religious side.

I've sung all the songs.

TBB and TFS are about religion.

.........and he wants to be taken seriously!

Ah look who's back to intersperse the debate with meaningless quibble, trying to invalidate my opinion with typical high horsed forum debating tactics without actually airing any decent length of opinion on the matter yourself.

I've not sung them at the ground, that's where it's hurting us. I didn't sing them consistently, and I don't sing them now. Stating I have sung them in the past means nothing. Walter Smith has said he sung them when he was younger? What's your point?

The songs in question at their core basis, are about religion, I don't see see how that is up in the air, but there we go. I have stated that I don't consider them sectarian, and as such my singing of them a few times previously doesn't add anything to the fact that I think we should stop singing them if we continue to be punished for it. The football and the club is what matters here, not the secondary interests such as religion, hence my mentioning of the fact that we were not born a protestant club, and were not as such, apparently, until the 1920's onwards.

Rangers are my concern, and consistent punishments for singing these songs just constricts us more at a time where we really don't want anymore constriction.

The Old Firm religious rivalry is nothing now compared to what it was, it really is being over exaggerated by the media, and I'll agree with some here, when I say it's to put another boot into us whilst we are down.

Ok so that's a couple of songs you've said you don't think offends anyone.

Do you agree that Rangers should be backing us up then?

This is where the divide in the support lies,we know it's not offending anyone and it's a targeted campaign against the club and you have wankers in our support that automatically turn on the ones singing the songs rather than getting annoyed at the attack!

The club hang these guys out to dry then come out with the begging bowl to them when it comes to season tickets,merchandise,friendlies against AC Milan.

I will always love my club but I'm disgusted with the people who are sitting back and letting everyone have a pop.

It depends, I think it's a very difficult one to call. On the one hand, yes, they should stand by the supporters that pore money into the club.

But on the other hand, as we always have, the club should stand as a pillar of dignity, respect and honour, towards children and the future generation, if they are seen backing up, what some others are considering sectarian (despite the fans belief if it is or not) that wouldn't go down well, especially when 'sectarianism' is trying to be eradicated from the city.

I know it seems those from across the city are involved, they probably are, but this should resolved without having the team and the fans having to pay for it in a footballing sense.

As I said, tough one, in my mind. Others see it differently.

Not a problem.

The whole point in this debate is about how our songs are perceived and how we can get in trouble as a result.

There's a lot of people on here that regard tim anti-monarchy songs as sectarian because the Queen is the head of the Church Of England, therefore, any anti-Queen/monarchy song is religious and you have an avatar with a crown on it on a Rangers forum - it's wee things like this that comes across as double standards and de-values your own argument to an extent.

OK the fans haven't ALWAYS sung Loyalist songs. But since 1920 they have. So for almost 100 years they are part of our fantastic football club by definition. What about the likes of Penny Arcade? that's been sung by some fans at games since what? 2009? does that mean that stops too?

You simply can't go back to before 1920, pick and choose what you think suits you, and then tell others that's gospel.

Again, I'll re-emphasise - the famine song and the Billy Boys has FUCK ALL to do with religion.

Fair enough, clearly my non religious mindset hasn't made me even think of the fact that my avatar would be considered in that way. Seriously, that bit in bold wouldn't have came to me if you'd given me 50 guesses.

Indeed, since the 1920's. That's what I was saying about how the team isn't protestant by definition, in the same way that Celtic would be considered catholic by definition, in my opinion. They started as such, we didn't.

The only reason I am arguing that they should stop, and putting forward the opinion I wrote tonight in my opening post (knowing I'd get flack) is on the basis of concern for the footballing part of the club. I'd not have voiced any concerns with apparent sectarian songs or the protestant attachment to the club if it wasn't for us getting fines and bans, and the team we all support isn't in the best state of affairs as it is. You'll appreciate that, whilst we differ in opinion on this, I am only concerned for and interested in the football club.

The Famine Song is further from religion, but The Billy Boys definitely IS, it just can't not be.

[outlaw69uk 123]

"Most people in the UK are part of" Maybe 30 years ago, not these days.

I know hardly any "religious" people, and the ones that are, are not definitely not practicing, but rather christened at birth, and thats it, they don't attend church, and they don't follow "Gods law of the land", so to speak. I'm not belittling anyone that is actually religious, good on them for having faith in something, I just don't myself.

Protestantism though, has nothing to do with the heritage of Rangers. People forget this. Fifteen years Rangers existed before Celtic, (1872 - 1887,) and in those 15 years, as well as another good 20 (+) years before, and just after the first World War, Rangers had no religious secondary interests attached to the club or it's support. No match report or article mentions it, we had catholic players, and we had an unregonised amount of (irish) catholic following, most of whom I am sure left us for Celtic in 1888, but that's a different story.

It's part of the history, yes, but we were not started as a protestant club, and we did not have any 'anti catholic agenda' as has been stated for years with regarding signings and the such. (I'm talking Maurice Johnston being the 'first' catholic at Rangers in the 80's, terrible journalism to sell papers.) Rangers were started for the love of the football game, unlike our rivals across the city, who were started to raise money for catholicism and poor Irish Catholics in the East End of the city.

I don't have a problem with the club being linked with Unionism and Protestantism, but there is too much of this belief that Rangers ARE a protestant club, just because after World War 1 a protestant following appeared, (a little after the Irish influx to the city in the late 19th Century), the club became part of the religious 'war' that was going on in Glasgow at the time. (Note: The Billy Boys, knife gangs etc).

What happened to the football side of it?

People should follow Rangers in the way they want, but in my opinion, only up to a point. When these secondary interests that are attached to the clubs support suddenly start ruining the primary interest, the actual football, you have to say, when is enough, enough? For three home european games, not a single supporter is allowed to watch from the luxury of a seat inside Ibrox, this includes the ones that are not interested in anything but the football, but have to pay the price because others choose to continue with secondary interests regardless.

Yes, yes, there is debate as to why we were 'dobbed in' for singing songs when the match reports being claimed against, stated nothing wrong. But we'd be lying if we said the songs haven't been sung at all over the last two years.

I'll pose these questions to get some minds going.

If Celtic never came to be, would we be in a rivalry with Hibernian? Or would no religion have been attached to our club, because of a lack of catholicism attached to another?

Would our great rivals now be Aberdeen? Hibs? Queens Park? Who knows, if Queens Park didn't stay amateur, maybe the religious war within the city would have attached itself to that club instead, what would our 'traditions and heritage' have been then?

I also wonder what the original Rangers would have thought of all of this? Of the religious attachment to their club, (do remember, it really is their conception, their club)?

From what I remember these original Rangers set up matches to help Celtic gain momentum, and early 'Old Firm' matches were friendly. Are they hand wringers, apologists? They helped raise money for, and nurture a team that we now hate. (This interests me because I've seen McCoist get slagged on here for raising money towards Catholic charities). I can't speak for them, but I will take a strong betting that the founders of this club did not expect it to become embroiled in a religious hate war within Glasgow, I'm not sure most of them even survived long enough to see it start happening either.

This post is serious, and I'm interested in hearing what folk actually have to say about it, instead of getting 'hangwringer, apologist' rubbish as a response.

As I said, I'm not stating we should have to stop singing our songs or drop what some deem our traditions, but I am just questioning it all for discussion and out of interest.

Greetings young man, not seen you in a while, I am VERY drunk right now, and, i dont think my rely will do your post justice, so, I will answer tomorrow. however, to respond to your first line...

Attending Kirk is irrelevant. Are you christened? Most people are. You know you cant be buried if not? Like it or lump it, thats part of it, its a C of E/C of S country, which the Queen is the head of. If ya christened, you are part of it. Simple fact. A lot of people know my religious views, and, I am definately not a zealot.

[McBoyd 355]

Greetings young man, not seen you in a while, I am VERY drunk right now, and, i dont think my rely will do your post justice, so, I will answer tomorrow. however, to respond to your first line...

Attending Kirk is irrelevant. Are you christened? Most people are. You know you cant be buried if not? Like it or lump it, thats part of it, its a C of E/C of S country, which the Queen is the head of. If ya christened, you are part of it. Simple fact. A lot of people know my religious views, and, I am definately not a zealot.

Great post.

Captain Kirk?

I can't be buried if I'm not christened? Public cemeteries my friend! I'll be cremated either way, so that doesn't bother me

[McBoyd 355]

Anyway, bed beckons, I have work tomorrow.

Goodnight all

[caseyjones 3,009]

As you have so eloquently shown, lots of words doesn't necessarily ensure that a piece has any substance. You have continually made stuff up, simply to suit your point of view. I feel no shame in pointing out those inaccuracies, even if it's done with a degree of brevity.

There is the debating chamber if you need something more challenging for your high level of intellect.

[swanseabear 25]

It's getting tense among Bears here. Will Ferrell has something to say.....

[keithgersbear 3,225]

A lot of it isn't down to religion. I don't know why it is being mentioned.

[jingotreblefunf 1]

How the fuck would you know what's typical of this forum?

How the fuck wouldnt he?