CanadianBacon 2,088 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 We are 100% right to question every deal and look for conformation.The debt ownership is hardly a small detail. He is boasting of clearing the debt with Lloyds but i have never seen conformation that Rangers no longer have any debt, when he says that he will get my gratitude and congratulations.The reality of that situation is not possible - his company (Wave-goodbye....Liberate-your-dough....Whatever plc?) will have lodged hot sweaty cash (or a promissory note?) to Lloyds to clear what they are owed, however, unless this was a once-in-a-lifetime free gift to Rangers FC (and it won't be) then that company is owed the money.Ipso facto - we're still in debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boss 1,941 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Really ?Do you not want conformation on the debt situation or are you happy to wait and hope it is included in the shareholders information (if it is i will be happy to congratulate the man and start to reassess my opinion).What bit of:Wavetower will also acquire the indebtedness of Lloyds Banking Group, the secured creditor, and is under an obligation to waive this debt in the foreseeable future, thereby strengthening the Club's balance sheet.is troubling you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,610 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 We are 100% right to question every deal and look for conformation.The debt ownership is hardly a small detail. He is boasting of clearing the debt with Lloyds but i have never seen conformation that Rangers no longer have any debt, when he says that he will get my gratitude and congratulations.I didn't know Craig Whyte had to give you a phone regarding the deal, Surely he will have to phone the gobblegiver spiers and the list of interested fenians first.Maybe he's lost your number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 What bit of:Wavetower will also acquire the indebtedness of Lloyds Banking Group, the secured creditor, and is under an obligation to waive this debt in the foreseeable future, thereby strengthening the Club's balance sheet.is troubling you?The forseeable bit.....I find it strange for a venture capitalist to take ownership of debt to write it off and make no money off it...as i say when he does it and it is confirmed on the books then he will get my congratulations and gratitude....not before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I didn't know Craig Whyte had to give you a phone regarding the deal, Surely he will have to phone the gobblegiver spiers and the list of interested fenians first.Maybe he's lost your number.what a stupid reply.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,610 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The I and other mods should make it our main focus to identify said smelly tarrier hordes and rip them a new arse (internetally speaking ) before banning them to the big bad fire.Report any and all you believe to be tarrier filth. No point they just re register its pointless. They seem more interested in us than their own team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,610 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 what a stupid reply.... Well its the only one your getting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Well its the only one your getting.I didn't expect anything else to be fair to you.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,610 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 There are tragic folk in this world who's glass is not only half empty, but was filled with pish in the first place.Even if you peruse other sites all you see is supposed celtic supporters and all they talk about is us.Jealousy can be a curse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boss 1,941 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The forseeable bit.....I find it strange for a venture capitalist to take ownership of debt to write it off and make no money off it...as i say when he does it and it is confirmed on the books then he will get my congratulations and gratitude....not beforeunder an obligation to waive this debt in the foreseeable futureI think you're on to plums on this one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smile 26,610 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I didn't expect anything else to be fair to you....That's good your not disappointed then.Run along now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyjones 3,009 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 After the smoke and mirrors of the Murray years, why are people struggling to understand the need to make sure that everything is above board?Haven't you learned anything? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roboscot 1,176 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Every club in the land is in debt. Being debt free is not the be all and end all here.As far as I was aware, the debt we had to LBG was serviceable, the rate at which they (LBG) wanted the outstanding balance reduced by was the reason that the downsizing was being forced upon the club's financial resources.If Wavetower or whoever have paid off LBG and the new owners have a clearly defined business plan to increase revenue then there's no reason why the club cannot repay the debt + interest and maintain a competitive team on the park whilst improving the commercial side of the business by exploiting "the brand".I am confident that this will be the model that the Chairman is working to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,831 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 There is a statement due to be released by Craig Whyte to all minority shareholders on 6th June, at least that is the date proposed. That should go a reasonable way to explaining some of the public side of things. I don't expect to hear a great deal of detail on Whyte's capital as I wouldn't tell you my personal wealth details and I see no reason for him to do so. I cannot believe that Sir David Murray has not had a close look into where Whyte's money was coming from and ensuring he had sufficient capital without borrowing to the hilt. That was what the Club already had so it would be pointless for Murray to agree a change of ownership without a change in the debt (albeit through inter-company borrowing/lending). Alistair Johnston must have been party to a fair amount of the information prior to the takeover. I'm disappointed that he refused to resign. If he didn't like what was happening he should have resigned and made it clear why he was resigning. It appears that Whyte is unwilling to keep Johnston updated with his finances and again, I can understand why. Johnston was leaving anyway so has no need to be informed any longer. Paul Murray should have come up with his takeover package much earlier. He had been on the Board for a few years so why wait until the last minute? Was he hoping to pick up Rangers for a fraction after administration and a points deduction? What about Johnston in the plan B? There are far too many unknowns for any of us to form a proper judgement. It is all speculation and we are only fed the selective bits of information which certain people want us to know and not the full story. The media simply publish the speculation as it feeds the frenzy. After the Plan B takeover proposal and the anti-Whyte stance from existing Board members, those involved were all a certainty to leave. I just wished they had had the decency to resign quietly at this stage and keep their public criticism quiet at this time. Whyte is innocent until proven guilty. Johnston only had to say that he hoped Whyte would strengthen the team as promised then wished him and the Club well and departed. The personal acrimony has given rise to some knee-jerk panic and comment from supporters and media. Let it go and wait and see what transpires in the next few weeks. The debt to Lloyds has been cleared in full. We are therefore £18m better off than we we were a couple of weeks ago. I don't know the financial status of Whyte or his plans for the Club apart from what has been said by him in press releases. The Club accounts will show what the financial status is with regard to any borrowings but these will not be available until autumn. I suppose actions will speak louder than words in relation to team strengthening and we all hope that Whyte keeps his word. In the meantime let us bask in the warm glow of the 54th title. All this negative stuff merely deflects from our achievements this season. All will be revealed in due course.WATP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 under an obligation to waive this debt in the foreseeable futureI think you're on to plums on this one...I want to be wrong.... I want what is best for Rangers and if that proves to be Craig Whyte i will be a happy man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger 270 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 under an obligation to waive this debt in the foreseeable futureI think you're on to plums on this one...good thats encouraging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 at least the debt will be owed to our owner, hopefully he wont be as tough in his efforts to get it backhopefully he has it down as a 54 year loan interest free Do you mean as in the way Hearts owe their "owner" £45,000,000 ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boss 1,941 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I want to be wrong.... No danger there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabawsa 888 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 .......what fecking financial contribution did AJ personally ever make?..... yet he is banging on about the new kid on the block's credentials etc...... him and Bain probably expensed their exuberant Permatans to the club and a Whyte man found out this in today's Scotsman IMO perfectly sums up the 'bitching' coming from our now ex-chairman..http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Tom-English-Selfstyled-No1-fan.6773941.jp?articlepage=2I thought a man was innocent until proven guilty....... give Whyte a chance.....he is hardly in the door .................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCartmanLee 313 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 No danger there... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCDBigBear 10,831 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Every club in the land is in debt. Being debt free is not the be all and end all here.As far as I was aware, the debt we had to LBG was serviceable, the rate at which they (LBG) wanted the outstanding balance reduced by was the reason that the downsizing was being forced upon the club's financial resources.If Wavetower or whoever have paid off LBG and the new owners have a clearly defined business plan to increase revenue then there's no reason why the club cannot repay the debt + interest and maintain a competitive team on the park whilst improving the commercial side of the business by exploiting "the brand".I am confident that this will be the model that the Chairman is working to.Sorry was typing my last post and had not seen yours. I was at the LLoyds AGM last week. Lloyds want out of all football lending. RFC was servicing the debt and repaying capital borrowed in accordance with an agreed repayment plan but Lloyds just wanted rid of Rangers (and other clubs). There is nothing to stop the Club borrowing from a different bank in future but we have to watch debt levels. Qualification for the Champions League could make a significant difference for 2011-12. All our past surplus cash from CL participation has gone into paying back debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimfanciesthedude 24,561 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Do you mean as in the way Hearts owe their "owner" £45,000,000 ??i think a club of rangers size can cope with an 18million debt to their owner a lot more than a club of hearts size coping with a debt like that ffssilly silly comparison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebooler 4,509 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 do you call taking 7 months to buy the club going for the jugular.... The hold ups in his takeover of the club were not of his doing in the main.The Tax Case, the "unknown" Tax Issue which was found late in proceedings, the reluctance of the Board to ratify his takeover.All hold ups on the club's part - nothing to do with Craig Whyte.I'm not surprised he's having a clearout.After all, some of the Board were sitting on £25m (apparently) and only made this known as Craig Whyte's takeover neared completion.Why did these Board Members not put this money up a while ago when we needed it most?I'm sure it woulda kept Lloyds away from our door and given us room to manouvre in the transfer market and offering players better contracts to stay with us.Was this £25m available when we let our top scorer go to Turkey for the sake of 2 or 3 thousand pounds a week, or when we lost Commons to celtic for the sake of a few thousand pounds more?The Board IMO don't deserve to be treated any differently than they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLawMan 6,240 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 i think a club of rangers size can cope with an 18million debt to their owner a lot more than a club of hearts size coping with a debt like that ffssilly silly comparisonHearts were nowhere near £45m when the "owner" took over. What interest rate are we going to be charged ? Is it higher than Lloyds ? Will we have to pay any of it back at all ?Surely there is a list of 10 questions out there that Craig could come clean on and put all our minds at rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyjones 3,009 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hearts were nowhere near £45m when the "owner" took over. What interest rate are we going to be charged ? Is it higher than Lloyds ? Will we have to pay any of it back at all ?Surely there is a list of 10 questions out there that Craig could come clean on and put all our minds at rest.Which member of the fourth estate will have the balls to ask those probing questions, and in doing so risk life on the outside, looking in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts