rambo1428 16 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 dare i say this, but should we look across to the scum as a way to operate in the transfer market?my thoughts are, giving the need to decrease the wage bill, that we need to look at going for "potential" in the transfer window, rather than experienced pros...Take a glance at the celtic recruitment...they have brought in the likes of Ki,emilio,kayal,hooper,matthews all on minimal transfer fees and presumably minimal wages, and if paper talk is to be believed, they are all being touted by big clubs for big money, 4mill plusmy thoughts are that ally should be looking at first discarding the dead wood, those players that are not playing regularly (or we wish werent - kerkar/ortiz/broads/jig/weir/healy/little/alexander) then compliment what still is a fair experienced squad, with some up and comers or unknown quantities...lets face it, our bread and butter is the SPL and we would still challenge without the aforementioned players in our squad, so by going out, sourcing younger alternatives on lower wages, that have potential, we keep the wages at a reasonable level, have a good mix of established and potential stars, and give ourselves an opportunity at being self sufficient and keep the club ticking over by selling on those "potentials"We only need to look at similar clubs in Holland, Belgium etc who are doing a similar sort of thing with huge successBut you're forgetting the amount of terrible players they have signed aswell, we should always have been looking for potential but signing a list of say 20 players and 5 of them amount to anything isn't really a viable option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzGers 425 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But you're forgetting the amount of terrible players they have signed aswell, we should always have been looking for potential but signing a list of say 20 players and 5 of them amount to anything isn't really a viable option.agreed, they have signed some absolute honkers, however all the players i listed bar Ki have been signed by Lennon, wheras most of their rubbish came from mowbrayIn any case,i still think it is our best way forward, we need to stop thinking short term stop gaps and bring in guys that are young, willing to learn and then move them on for fees Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambo1428 16 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 agreed, they have signed some absolute honkers, however all the players i listed bar Ki have been signed by Lennon, wheras most of their rubbish came from mowbrayIn any case,i still think it is our best way forward, we need to stop thinking short term stop gaps and bring in guys that are young, willing to learn and then move them on for feesI don't see why we should be starting this now, this should always have been the way we did business, but the main problem is that if our young players are good enough to play for us when they are between 17 & 20 etc then why are they not getting a game in the first squad? I think Ally (and managers before him) are too scared to give young players a chance incase they do wrong or dont play well, which ultimately means they have no experience and when they get thrusted into the team when a regular is injured they have no form etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon 1,743 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The only thing that worries me about that list is the lack of real quality. Davis, McGregor, Naismith & Jelavić. That's it. Others like, Bocanegra, Goian, Wallace and Lafferty are good at what they do but you wouldn't class them as real quality. We need options to cover our lack of quality, that's why the list is so big, albeit slightly misleading. We need to dump the one dimensional players. Broadfoot, McCulloch, Edu, Whittaker and Ortiz. Players like Bedoya and McKay should either, get their chance or shown the door and someone else brought in. I fully expect to see a real reveloution in the summer, if the tax case is settled. Wishful thinking, I know but I can dream. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrox_Nights 429 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The only thing that worries me about that list is the lack of real quality. Davis, McGregor, Naismith & Jelavić. That's it. Others like, Bocanegra, Goian, Wallace and Lafferty are good at what they do but you wouldn't class them as real quality. I'd agree about the lack of quality, although I would have said that Bocanegra and Goian for the most part have looked somewhere near that standard of player you've mentioned. I'd certainly say, as much as I think Davis is a top, top player when on form, he has looked anything other than in that bracket at times this Season and you'd think their price tags were reversed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachothelegend 1,932 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Broadfoot ,mculoch,Ortiz ,whiittaker Big Davie Bedoya and maybe a few of those others who we have no idea about can go today.Its a lot of bodys with very little quality.Except our starting eleven. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papaguy51 912 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can you imagine we had a manager that occasionally utilised the full squad? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianBacon 2,088 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The only thing that worries me about that list is the lack of real quality. Davis, McGregor, Naismith & Jelavić. That's it. Others like, Bocanegra, Goian, Wallace and Lafferty are good at what they do but you wouldn't class them as real quality. We need options to cover our lack of quality, that's why the list is so big, albeit slightly misleading. We need to dump the one dimensional players. Broadfoot, McCulloch, Edu, Whittaker and Ortiz. Players like Bedoya and McKay should either, get their chance or shown the door and someone else brought in. I fully expect to see a real reveloution in the summer, if the tax case is settled. Wishful thinking, I know but I can dream.I'm not convinced giving McCoist free reign with a lump of new money is wise given his "previous". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymcg1986 259 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can anyone compile a list with when each players contract is up??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon 1,743 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not convinced giving McCoist free reign with a lump of new money is wise given his "previous". Me either, but the squad needs a clear out. McCoist or whoever, someone needs to do it. McCoist has targeted some decent players, the negotiations were the stumbling point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue corn flakes 1,282 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Plenty there we can do without, need to free up that wage bill and then bring in some quality rather than quality, squad just seems messy to me looking at that list.Sure we can free up some money which can be put to better uses.My mate tell me that Lee McCulloch is on 25 grand a week there is no way he is on that sort of cash. anyone know how much he is getting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoniram 1,919 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 McGregor - MainstayGoian - MainstayAlexander - Time to offloadPapac - Would keep but looks to be leaving so will need replaced.S Naismith - MainstayBocanegra - MainstayEdu - Would keep but not mainstayDavis - MainstayJelavic - MainstayFleck - Have to keep and developLafferty - 50/50 as i am still to be convinced he is nothnig more than a back up strikerWallace - MainstayAluko - So far so good but has to prove he can do it consistently to earn a long term dealBartley - Back to Arsenal with our thanksWylde - No more than a squad playerOrtiz - Return to SpainMcKay - Return to Australia (not my wish but that is the only likely outcome to this scenario)Bedoya - SellHealy - Release at end of seasonMcMillan - Squad player but if no impact this season then at 23 he has to be moved onWeir - Thank you and good luck in the future DavidNess - Will only be an asset if his injury problems clear up but how long can we afford to wait?Kerkar - Release at end of seasonGallacher - Can't comment as i haven't seen enough of him playing.Perry - Decent back upHemmings - Seen nothing to make me think he is any better or worse than what we have or could get.McCabe - Cracking prospect and one we have to develop properly even if that means loaning him out for a seasonCole - Not seen enough bar one game to judge him yet.K Naismith - Same as ColeB Currie - Who?McCulloch - Release as soon as possibleWhittaker - Squad player but never our first choice right backBroadfoot - Release as soon as possibleK Hutton - Squad playerLittle - Release as soon as possibleLong on numbers but short in real quality. However if you look at our title winning squads down through the years you will see that the bulk of the games were played by about 15 or 16 regulars. There is always a need for a big squad due to injuries and suspensions but the fringe players are under no illusions about their role. Yes they may all want to play more but they generally don't because the guy picked ahead of them is better. Not in all cases granted but more often than not this is the case.However i do think that in the coming seasons the 1st team squad will be trimmed down to around 25 tops and the wage bill will be slashed quite dramatically to allow us to live within our means. I also don't think it will be exclusive to us because as we have seen recently all the clubs in Scotland are going through difficult times and that includes the filth despite all their PR to the contrary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertkay 39 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would agree that cutting the squad is a must. The younger members of the squad are more than likely on pennies so the only way to make a tangible difference is offload the under performers like Broadfoot, McCulloch etc. Chopping, say 5 of the younger players, could perhaps amount for a Ricky Foster type loan but not much more. Whereas a Lee McCulloch leaving frees up, I would imagine, a decent wage and if we are very lucky a small transfer fee. I would agree with the person that said Alexander should go (can't quote for some reason) but not because he is missing something, just because I don't believe we need as good a backup. In 2008 I remember a lot of people regarding Alexander as one of the best backup keepers in Britain and without a doubt he deserves to be playing first team football somewhere.I would happily get rid of certain under performing players as long as we really made a conscientious effort at integrating youngsters. We overate celt*c at times and I firmly believe a team along the lines of: :Healy: :Wylde: :Fleck: :Aluko: :Ness: :Edu: :McMillan: :McGregor: Would still pump them. With Naismith still to come back and a couple of sensible additions in attack and probably midfield we wouldn't be too much worse off (if any) on the back of the sale of the likes of Davis, Jelavic, Whittaker, Broadfoot and McCulloch.As a matter of fact that is (if we get a fair price) anywhere up to £15m and in excess of 50k a week off the wage bill without even looking at Weir, McKay (if he aint playing him) Bedoya or Ortiz.Not the greatest Rangers team to play at Ibrox but still good enough to win the league and reduce the bills. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosesMcNeil 1,664 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not convinced giving McCoist free reign with a lump of new money is wise given his "previous". Not happy with Goian, Boca, Wallace and Aluko?I can think of no manager in history who does not sign players with the very best of intention and hope and they go on to fail at any given club.None - not a single one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sco22y 280 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Everyones wages add up mate, even the youngsters. We are at a stage where getting rid of a "few wages" is still not enough. We need more to go. This year, we actually need quite a considerable number off the wage bill.May i ask how you think Rhys McCabes game is improving constantly sitting on the bench behind the likes of Lee McCulloch whos only contribution to the team is negative? This lad is supposed to have a huge future ahead yet isnt getting a sniff of first team action. Same can be asked of Ross Perry, Jordan McMillan, both of whom play second fiddle to a player who is not even ours. Young players or not, if they are not playing and not contributing then they are no use to us. We need to either loan them out, give them a chance or let them go. It could also be argued players over the age of 19 are no longer youths, they should be at a stage where they can bring something to the table.the pressure to win every game doesnt help our youngsters.they should be going to the championship where the team getting them can at least pay their wages. chalie adam all over again if we just got rid of them though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryMc 2,394 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 We should be pushing half of the squad out on loan to ease the wage bill.It's the only real option because nobody would buy most of those players. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albluenose1990 29 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I don't want us adding on top of that, I want a majority of the kids who will never make it moved on plus the like's of McCulloch, Broadfoot, Ortiz and the rest who have had there day or won't make it, shipped out so then we can aim to have a reasonably small squad that is full of quality rather than just full of quantity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crespie6 334 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 the pressure to win every game doesnt help our youngsters.they should be going to the championship where the team getting them can at least pay their wages. chalie adam all over again if we just got rid of them though.I know what you are saying, but the league we play in is perfect for kids IMO. Play shit teams every week (bar a couple), but also have a little pressure to keep you on your toes. If they cant handle that then get rid.However, as i've said before, Smith for years would only play youngsters either1. when totally forced (this generally meant a European game)2. when the league was mathematically wonMy hope is that McCoist does not copy Smith. We have some great youngsters who could be mainstays in this team for years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andymcg1986 259 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This might not be 100% accurate, but its there about's I believe. GoalkeepersMcGregor - 30.06.2017Alexander - 30.06.2013Gallacher - 30.06.2012Grant Adam - 30.06.2012DefendersWallace - 30.06.2016Whittaker - 30.06.2016Perry - 30.06.2015Goian - 30.06.2014Bocanegra - 30.06.2014Broadfoot - 30.06.2013Cole - 30.06.2013Papac - 30.06.2012McMillan - 30.06.2012Weir - 30.06.2012Bartley - 30.06.2012(loan ends)MidfieldersDavis - 30.06.2016S Naismith - 30.06.2015Wylde - 30.06.2015McCabe - 30.06.2015Ness - 30.06.2015Ortiz - 30.06.2014McKay - 30.06.2014Bedoya - 30.06.2014K Hutton - 30.06.2014Edu - 30.06.2013Fleck - 30.06.2013McCulloch -30.06.2013Aluko - 30.06.2012(option to increase contract)Kerkar - 30.06.2012StrikersK Naismith - 30.06.2015Jelavic - 30.06.2014Lafferty - 30.06.2013Hemmings - 30.06.2013Healy - 30.06.2012Little - 30.06.2012So we have 10(really 9) players out of contract in the summer, 8 in the summer of 2013.Cheers mate so another year of jig after this to contend with lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluebells 6,898 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 My mate tell me that Lee McCulloch is on 25 grand a week there is no way he is on that sort of cash. anyone know how much he is getting?Whatever it is, it's too much but id have a heart attack if he was on anything near that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulRFC1 115 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 McGregorGoianAlexanderPapacS NaismithBocanegraEduDavisJelavicFleckLaffertyWallaceAlukoBartleyWyldeOrtizMcKayBedoyaHealyMcMillanWeirNessKerkarGallacherPerryHemmingsMcCabeColeK NaismithB CurrieMcCullochWhittakerBroadfootK HuttonLittleThats why we have no money. Thats why we need to sell before we buy. Thats why we are shopping bargain basement. 4 goalkeepers13 who can play in defence 19 who can or have played in midfield7 who can or have played up front.(Taking into account some players can or have played more than one position)We dont have a reserve league anymore, imo any player who is not eligible for the under 19 team must be classed as a first team player now.So..............who is first to leave then and who will follow?(Apologies if i have left any players out.)Its more about strength in depth rather than the number of players we have in a squad.Bolded are youth who are nowhere near the team.Italics are players who are simply numbers and are rarely called upon.And there its cut down to 19, then we have Whittaker, Broadfoot and McCulloch who the majority would say are useless and then Ness who is never fit.And now its down to 15 and one of them is a Goalkeeper, one is out for the season and one is on loan from Arsenal.We have no money because we are in a terrible financial position and have a huge tax bill hanging over us, not because we have a number of players who are on fuck all in the squad.We need more players badly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulRFC1 115 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And this number is not too much for an SPL campaign.We have a number of youth players and players like Kerkar in the squad and around 15 players to call upon from that post I just made.Celtic have something like 20 players in around there squad and then players like McGeouch who are making appearances and then they have another 8 players on loan like Rasmussen. And they are still trying to add to this squad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMac 1,405 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don't want us adding on top of that, I want a majority of the kids who will never make it moved on plus the like's of McCulloch, Broadfoot, Ortiz and the rest who have had there day or won't make it, shipped out so then we can aim to have a reasonably small squad that is full of quality rather than just full of quantity.Agree. The U-19 Squad has over 30 players, 15 of them foreigners so I reckon that must cost a few quid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWalterSmithLegend 206 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 And this number is not too much for an SPL campaign.We have a number of youth players and players like Kerkar in the squad and around 15 players to call upon from that post I just made.Celtic have something like 20 players in around there squad and then players like McGeouch who are making appearances and then they have another 8 players on loan like Rasmussen. And they are still trying to add to this squad.Name the youth players then. Name those still eligible for the 19's..............I may have named a few players who done their time at Rangers as youth players, but the FACT is they are no longer youth players. Bheast FC have been run properly over the last decade, we have not. They also have bigger avenues for revenue than us too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWalterSmithLegend 206 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Its more about strength in depth rather than the number of players we have in a squad.Bolded are youth who are nowhere near the team.Italics are players who are simply numbers and are rarely called upon.And there its cut down to 19, then we have Whittaker, Broadfoot and McCulloch who the majority would say are useless and then Ness who is never fit.And now its down to 15 and one of them is a Goalkeeper, one is out for the season and one is on loan from Arsenal.We have no money because we are in a terrible financial position and have a huge tax bill hanging over us, not because we have a number of players who are on fuck all in the squad.We need more players badly.Well thats alot of pish, verging on deluded actually. talk about makign up shit to suit yourself. Jesus. Hutton, Little, Perry, Cole and Hemmings have all played for the first team and are on the fringes of things, a few have even got Champions League experience. They are not youth players in any meaning of the word. You call the players in italics "numbers", i call them a drain on our limired resources, passengers in fact! We cant afford players like that. Then you name 4 first team regulars, who are well in the gaffers plans, the majority and their opinion doesnt count. So its not 19, not even close, its 35 FACT.15? You cant just ignore 20 players because you dont like them, the FACT remains they are ALL combined costing us a fortune!That bold line is the biggest load of shite i have read on here, absolutely deluded. The big tax case has not cost us a penny yet. The whole squad we are carrying is the very reason Mr Whyte has told everyone we need to cut costs. The huge squad we are carrying we cannot afford, FACT."We need more players" is a cry for help, a desperate throwing out the pram of dummies and a phrase which proves you simply cannot comprehend the situation we find ourselves in. Its pretty sad but you are not alone. We cannot afford more players. Just how many tools does the boss need to win such a mediocre league? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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