Cycling Thread

[25 Minutes To Go 28]

Michael Rogers tested positive for clenbuterol during the Japan Cup and has been provisionally banned.

That is Michael Rogers who was "Zero Tolerance" Team Sky's road captain during the 2012 tour when Bradley Wiggins won it. Not good.

Now riding on Alberto Contador's team.

[JamieD 19,070]

Now riding on Alberto Contador's team.

Clearly Bertie has been showing him all the best kobe beef joints in Japan.

[JamieD 19,070]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/landis-and-lim-clash-over-cycle-of-lies?ns_campaign=features&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=cyclingnews&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=features

Floyd Landis hasn't forgiven Wiggins for pandering to Armstrong.

"Take Bradley Wiggins for example, and his claim that he thought Lance Armstrong was clean up until the reasoned decision. I do have a little sympathy for him. While he's not particularly bright or articulate, if you read between his curse words it's clear that he has insecurities resulting from the fact that despite all the measures he took to win the Tour he wasn't even the strongest rider."

[Duncan 23]

As much as I don't particularly like Wiggins... Landis is just a bitter bitter man. The only way he could compete was while on drugs. Utter waste of oxygen

[JamieD 19,070]

As much as I don't particularly like Wiggins... Landis is just a bitter bitter man. The only way he could compete was while on drugs. Utter waste of oxygen

Of course he's bitter. He was totally scapegoated. Now he lives alone in a log cabin Do you remember what Wiggins said about him when he came clean and told the truth about US Postal and Armstrong, as well as himself?

“I’ve always been a bit of a fan of Lance and have sided on the side of innocent until proven guilty with him. There isn’t an athlete or a cyclist out there that isn’t more tested than he is, certainly since his comeback, he’s probably been the most tested cyclist in the pro peloton and you take that on face value and that he’s never failed a drugs test and until he does he’s clean. That’s how I’ve always had as a stance on Lance.”

I think you have to question Landis’ credibility because he lied under oath before and the stories that you hear about him drinking and things like that and you know, making telephone calls to people I know, threatening them with things, you just think that the guy appears to not all be there. So when you see these kinds of claims in the press you have to question his credibility because it’s almost like it’s coming from a mad man, but at the same time maybe that’s all borne out of frustration and things.”

What a beautiful display of omerta in action. The standard attack against anyone who dares to piss in the soup - "He just wants to watch the world burn!", "Lance has never failed a drugs test!" (neither had Marion Jones, neither did his former team-mate David Millar). Angrier at Landis for telling the truth than he was at him for doping. As a recovering alcoholic himself, the bit about drinking was just disgusting and hypocritical. Can we assume that when Brad was ranting profanely at journalists who dared to mention doping - because they have a right to after the number of lies that his friends have told them over the years - that was because of "the stories that you hear about him drinking"?

And of course, the only way for any of them to compete in 2006 was while on drugs. Landis decided he would rather be a cheat than a loser. Obviously that was the wrong call. I remember Jonathan Vaughters saying that Landis' natural, clean power output from his pre-US Postal days would be enough to win a Tour in today's "cleaner" era. He was naturally a monster. A cheat, certainly, but the sad thing about doping in sports is that once everyone is doing it, both the talented people and the less talented people feel they have to cheat to keep up. Totally ruins the whole concept of competition. I admire anyone willing to come clean and ruin his career in doing so much more than I admire someone who wants to protect the establishment, like Wiggins.

[JamieD 19,070]

Horrible-looking crash between Van Summeren and an elderly woman who tried to cross the road during today's Tour of Flanders

[Duncan 23]

I admire anyone willing to come clean and ruin his career in doing so much more than I admire someone who wants to protect the establishment, like Wiggins.

He only came clean though because he was caught and tried to save himself. There is nothing to admire about that

[JamieD 19,070]

He only came clean though because he was caught and tried to save himself. There is nothing to admire about that

He was caught four years earlier. There was nothing left to save. He came clean because he was sick of all the other people he knew were cheating - including the people who told him to cheat in the first place - treating him like a pariah. He came clean because he asked Armstrong and Bruyneel to help him get back on his feet and they said "sorry Floyd, you're dirty now, we can't be seen to be friends with you", even though they were the people who put him on a drug program to start with. He finally realised they weren't all in it together, it wasn't a level playing field, it WAS cheating.

The man's a cheat but at least he's not a hypocrite. And I'm not surprised that it angers him when he sees supposedly anti-doping riders like Wiggins kissing Lance's arse in public when every rider in the peloton knew he was doping.

"I think they have to take a strong look at who they invite to the race in the next few years; if there is one per cent suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in doping, or are working with certain doctors who are under suspicion of doping. then they shouldn’t be invited to the Tour de France, it’s as simple as that."

Said Bradley Wiggins, who rode for notoriously doped-up team Cofidis, and who defended Armstrong until the end even though it was common knowledge (and Armstrong had admitted) that he had worked for Michele Ferrari for years. You can see how being slurred by him might have provoked indignation from someone like Landis.

[Duncan 23]

He was caught four years earlier. There was nothing left to save. He came clean because he was sick of all the other people he knew were cheating - including the people who told him to cheat in the first place - treating him like a pariah. He came clean because he asked Armstrong and Bruyneel to help him get back on his feet and they said "sorry Floyd, you're dirty now, we can't be seen to be friends with you", even though they were the people who put him on a drug program to start with. He finally realised they weren't all in it together, it wasn't a level playing field, it WAS cheating.

The man's a cheat but at least he's not a hypocrite. And I'm not surprised that it angers him when he sees supposedly anti-doping riders like Wiggins kissing Lance's arse in public when every rider in the peloton knew he was doping.

"I think they have to take a strong look at who they invite to the race in the next few years; if there is one per cent suspicion or doubt that a team is involved in doping, or are working with certain doctors who are under suspicion of doping. then they shouldn’t be invited to the Tour de France, it’s as simple as that."

Said Bradley Wiggins, who rode for notoriously doped-up team Cofidis, and who defended Armstrong until the end even though it was common knowledge (and Armstrong had admitted) that he had worked for Michele Ferrari for years. You can see how being slurred by him might have provoked indignation from someone like Landis.

You're calling Wiggins a doper then?

[JamieD 19,070]

You're calling Wiggins a doper then?

No, I have no evidence for that, although as a matter of interest I would like to hear his thoughts on his blood values from the 2009 Tour when his haemoglobin level rose rather than fell after the mountain stage to Verbier in the third week of the Tour. It's a statistical anomaly that would suggest either a blood transfusion or else some sort of illness, and if was the latter then it's amazing that he finished 4th, beating his previous best grand tour finish by 65 places. Doping expert Michael Ashenden said the following about an almost identical rise in Floyd Landis' haemoglobin in 2006:

"Going from 15.5 to 16.1 (in haemoglobin) is not that unusual when not competing," Ashenden said by phone from Australia. "But it is very unusual to see an increase after a hard week of cycling. You’d expect it to be the reverse. You’d expect that to fall in a clean athlete. An increase like this in the midst of the Tour de France would be highly, highly unlikely.

"There’s nothing where I could point to one value and say, ‘This guy definitely doped.’ But it raises red flags for me. I would definitely recommend to anti-doping authorities that an athlete presenting these values should be target-tested for blood doping."

So bearing that in mind, plus the fact he had one amazing season in his career followed by a sharp decline, plus the fact that he rode for Cofidis (I believe they have one of the longest doping rap-sheets of any team on Dopeology), plus the fact that Sky's "zero tolerance" policy on doping has been shown to be PR rubbish and Wiggins has in fact worked with a doping doctor in Geert Leinders and therefore by his own strict criteria that he gave to the press (rode for doping team, worked with doping doctor) he should never have been invited to the tour, I'm not 100% convinced about Wiggins. That wasn't my point though. I don't really care if he's doping or not, accusing cyclists of doping is shooting fish in a barrel. What I do think is that his media statements indicate an unpleasant, hypocritical man who was quick to back up a nasty corporate establishment scumbag and kick a pathetic, broke loser when he was down, just because he dared to tell the truth about said scumbag. But he never seemed to have a problem with known dopers when he chose to ride for one (Jonathan Vaughters) and alongside one (David Millar) at Garmin. It was only the one who was dishing the dirt on Armstrong to whom he suddenly took fierce exception.

I don't like bullies, and the worst kind of all is the small bully who hides behind the big one. Give me Chris Froome any day. And I don't exactly trust him either.

[Duncan 23]

No, I have no evidence for that, although as a matter of interest I would like to hear his thoughts on his blood values from the 2009 Tour when his haemoglobin level rose rather than fell after the mountain stage to Verbier in the third week of the Tour. It's a statistical anomaly that would suggest either a blood transfusion or else some sort of illness, and if was the latter then it's amazing that he finished 4th, beating his previous best grand tour finish by 65 places. Doping expert Michael Ashenden said the following about an almost identical rise in Floyd Landis' haemoglobin in 2006:

"Going from 15.5 to 16.1 (in haemoglobin) is not that unusual when not competing," Ashenden said by phone from Australia. "But it is very unusual to see an increase after a hard week of cycling. You’d expect it to be the reverse. You’d expect that to fall in a clean athlete. An increase like this in the midst of the Tour de France would be highly, highly unlikely.

"There’s nothing where I could point to one value and say, ‘This guy definitely doped.’ But it raises red flags for me. I would definitely recommend to anti-doping authorities that an athlete presenting these values should be target-tested for blood doping."

So bearing that in mind, plus the fact he had one amazing season in his career followed by a sharp decline, plus the fact that he rode for Cofidis (I believe they have one of the longest doping rap-sheets of any team on Dopeology), plus the fact that Sky's "zero tolerance" policy on doping has been shown to be PR rubbish and Wiggins has in fact worked with a doping doctor in Geert Leinders and therefore by his own strict criteria that he gave to the press (rode for doping team, worked with doping doctor) he should never have been invited to the tour, I'm not 100% convinced about Wiggins. That wasn't my point though. I don't really care if he's doping or not, accusing cyclists of doping is shooting fish in a barrel. What I do think is that his media statements indicate an unpleasant, hypocritical man who was quick to back up a nasty corporate establishment scumbag and kick a pathetic, broke loser when he was down, just because he dared to tell the truth about said scumbag. But he never seemed to have a problem with known dopers when he chose to ride for one (Jonathan Vaughters) and alongside one (David Millar) at Garmin. It was only the one who was dishing the dirt on Armstrong to whom he suddenly took fierce exception.

I don't like bullies, and the worst kind of all is the small bully who hides behind the big one. Give me Chris Froome any day. And I don't exactly trust him either.

I'm not a Wiggins fan but dont think for one minute he's clever enough to dope. He only won Le tour thanks to the time trial stages and having a exceptional team mate that carried him up the mountains and wasn't allowed to attack himself

Wiggins is a superb Time Trialist but very average for everything else

[JamieD 19,070]

I'm not a Wiggins fan but dont think for one minute he's clever enough to dope. He only won Le tour thanks to the time trial stages and having a exceptional team mate that carried him up the mountains and wasn't allowed to attack himself

Wiggins is a superb Time Trialist but very average for everything else

All of that is true, although he didn't have the exceptional team in 2009. I think the doubts are fair, based on what I mentioned above, and doubts are just something cyclists are going to have to put up with, but as I say, I'm not particularly interested in arguing that he did or didn't dope.There are dopers who are likeable people and clean riders who aren't. Clean or not, I just don't buy Wiggins as some sort of moral authority, as he seems to enjoy portraying himself. Part of the problem is the idea that only doping is a toxic influence on the sport. It isn't. Broken promises about transparency, bullying, closing ranks and refusing to discuss the problems and attacking anyone who does are as harmful as cheating is. But it's only those who test positive who get vilified.

[Duncan 23]

Wiggins says he's not riding in the TdF this year. Not surprised but think it's a mistake not to take him

[JamieD 19,070]

Wiggins says he's not riding in the TdF this year. Not surprised but think it's a mistake not to take him

If it's Brailsford's decision because he doesn't trust Wiggins and Froome to get on, that's pathetic. If it's Froome's decision that he doesn't want him, Froome should be the one who is dropped.

In any case, his recent form earns him a place. If you don't send your best riders to the Tour, you don't deserve to win it.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Horrible-looking crash between Van Summeren and an elderly woman who tried to cross the road during today's Tour of Flanders

From the video I saw, it looks like he mounted the island she was on.

[Kopter 310]

Gutted Wiggins is out. Guess Brailsford didn't want a tour dogged by bitchiness from the Team Sky camp.

Punters would have loved it though.

[Duncan 23]

Froome has just stormed to victory in the 1st stage of the Criterium de Dauphine. Impressive

[JamieD 19,070]

Well, yesterday's stage showed one thing - Contador is strong. Maybe not strong enough to beat Froome and the Sky train over 3 weeks in France, but strong enough that Sky not taking their strongest team (ie, one with Wiggins) seems like either the height of stupidity or the height of arrogance.

Should be a great Tour.

[Duncan 23]

Well, yesterday's stage showed one thing - Contador is strong. Maybe not strong enough to beat Froome and the Sky train over 3 weeks in France, but strong enough that Sky not taking their strongest team (ie, one with Wiggins) seems like either the height of stupidity or the height of arrogance.

Should be a great Tour.

Was weird the way Froome burned off all his team mates the other day when he won the 2nd stage.... almost sending out a message to everyone that thinks Wiggins should be in the team!

Personally I don't think Froome has a very strong team around him and he will be doing alot of the work on his own again this year

[JamieD 19,070]

Was weird the way Froome burned off all his team mates the other day when he won the 2nd stage.... almost sending out a message to everyone that thinks Wiggins should be in the team!

Personally I don't think Froome has a very strong team around him and he will be doing alot of the work on his own again this year

He looked so strong in the first two stages. I wonder how much the crash is affecting him.

Contador looks incredible. If he takes the stage today it'll be stunning.

[Skol 401]

Anybody going to the Grand Depart on Saturday?

Froome still the overall favourite but Contador looked in stunning form in the mountains recently.

Be nice for Cavendish to win the sprint in his mum's home town but not sure I see it.

Can't wait for this year's tour.

[Kopter 310]

World Cup rolling into a Tour. Magic!

Will watch it live on Monday in London. Can't wait.

[Duncan 23]

Just watching the presentation just now. Got a feeling this TdF is gonna be incredible

[Kopter 310]

Anyone punting on it? Guess we can't look past Froome or Contador?

Nibali cheeky outsider? No idea of his season so far though.

[JamieD 19,070]

Anyone punting on it? Guess we can't look past Froome or Contador?

Nibali cheeky outsider? No idea of his season so far though.

He hasn't really shown much this year. At the Dauphine he kept cracking when Froome and Contador attacked, although he just kept going at his own pace and didn't lose too much time. So I think he'll probably be in the top 5 but he isn't going to win it.