"Ally Needs to win a Cup"? Realistic expectations

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

We all know the quote and we're all agreed that he needs to win the league, and whilst the Ramsden's Cup might be more realistic, I don't think that's what Charles meant. I shall proceed on the basis that he meant the League or Scottish Cup.

So before you consider that we're now out of one of the big two cups, even with the 2nd biggest wage bill in the nation, was it even fair to say "must win a cup". In each cup, there is a more expensive club getting top tier practice, whereas we're a couple of divisions down from that level.

On reflection, I do think that "must" is a bit too strong and that we should be thinking more along the lines of making a good cup run and hopefully winning one.

Nothing is guaranteed in football and nobody is certain to win anything, let alone be certain of it, especially when there are other teams playing at higher levels with bigger wage bills (OK 1).

So one cup is gone, knocked out by a lesser team from the same league, but we don't have access to our new players till next month. Until then, we'll be using a few of the previous season's rushed signings.

So I think the use of the word "must" isn't helpful, since it creates unrealistic and very absolute demands.

I'll be happy if we win the league, Ramsden's Cup, make a decent run in the Scottish Cup, whilst playing to a far superior standard to last year, once the players bed in.

[simplythebest 11,453]

He must win the Ramsdens Cup.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

Had no issue with what he said at the time, still don't and had no issue with him re-ittirating it last night too.

League and Ramsdens (CUP ye know) is absolute minimum.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

He must win the Ramsdens Cup.

That's fair, but one of the big two can't be guaranteed in the way that the word "must" implies.

[Bertent 2,081]

No its not realistic based on performance to date. and that is the issue.

[shankillblue1 349]

Fuck, just winning a game in style would be good.

[OlegKuznetsov 10,816]

Had no issue with what he said at the time, still don't and had no issue with him re-ittirating it last night too.

League and Ramsdens (CUP ye know) is absolute minimum.

If he meant Ramsden's then fine, but the bigger cups cannot be guaranteed as "must".

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

That's fair, but one of the big two can't be guaranteed in the way that the word "must" implies.

But to be fair he did qualify it by saying we have the second highest wage bill in Scotland amongst other things - so is one of the main cups so unrealistic? (obviously not with McCoist in charge) but I get what he means.

I wouldn't sack a manager in our position for failing to get one of the two big cups - but losing to Forfar first round of one of them would be a sacking offence.

[j1mgg 3,766]

Unless we met Celtic in both the league and Scottish cup then I would of thought winning one wasn't that much off what was expected.

[VERITAS VOS LIBREBETS 3,356]

We all know the quote and we're all agreed that he needs to win the league, and whilst the Ramsden's Cup might be more realistic, I don't think that's what Charles meant. I shall proceed on the basis that he meant the League or Scottish Cup.

So before you consider that we're now out of one of the big two cups, even with the 2nd biggest wage bill in the nation, was it even fair to say "must win a cup". In each cup, there is a more expensive club getting top tier practice, whereas we're a couple of divisions down from that level.

On reflection, I do think that "must" is a bit too strong and that we should be thinking more along the lines of making a good cup run and hopefully winning one.

Nothing is guaranteed in football and nobody is certain to win anything, let alone be certain of it, especially when there are other teams playing at higher levels with bigger wage bills (OK 1).

So one cup is gone, knocked out by a lesser team from the same league, but we don't have access to our new players till next month. Until then, we'll be using a few of the previous season's rushed signings.

So I think the use of the word "must" isn't helpful, since it creates unrealistic and very absolute demands.

I'll be happy if the win the league, Ramsden's Cup, make a decent run in the Scottish Cup, whilst playing to a far superior standard to last year, once the players bed in.

Well said Oleg

[subcrawl 43]

He never specified the big cups. I think most of us would agree that he should be winning the Ramsdens in the same way that the tims should be coasting the SPL.

Any manager spending about forty times more than his opponents must be aware that there is some level of expectation beyond the bare minimum ffs. Brown was talking mince saying that he just has to coast the league, an amateur team coach could do that.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

He never specified the big cups. I think most of us would agree that he should be winning the Ramsdens in the same way that the tims should be coasting the SPL.

Any manager spending about forty times more than his opponents must be aware that there is some level of expectation beyond the bare minimum ffs. Brown was talking mince saying that he just has to coast the league, an amateur team coach could do that.

[loyalfollower 1,543]

Depends on how its perceived. If we look at 8 signings and they could play straight away then yeah id consider winning only the league as an underachievement. Ive no doubt that law daly mosnhi wouldve seen ys through. Wether or not we shouldve needed them to beat lowly forfar is another story

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

We all know the quote and we're all agreed that he needs to win the league, and whilst the Ramsden's Cup might be more realistic, I don't think that's what Charles meant. I shall proceed on the basis that he meant the League or Scottish Cup.

So before you consider that we're now out of one of the big two cups, even with the 2nd biggest wage bill in the nation, was it even fair to say "must win a cup". In each cup, there is a more expensive club getting top tier practice, whereas we're a couple of divisions down from that level.

On reflection, I do think that "must" is a bit too strong and that we should be thinking more along the lines of making a good cup run and hopefully winning one.

Nothing is guaranteed in football and nobody is certain to win anything, let alone be certain of it, especially when there are other teams playing at higher levels with bigger wage bills (OK 1).

So one cup is gone, knocked out by a lesser team from the same league, but we don't have access to our new players till next month. Until then, we'll be using a few of the previous season's rushed signings.

So I think the use of the word "must" isn't helpful, since it creates unrealistic and very absolute demands.

I'll be happy if the win the league, Ramsden's Cup, make a decent run in the Scottish Cup, whilst playing to a far superior standard to last year, once the players bed in.

Even with a full squad at the top of the SPL telling any past manager they MUST win a cup would have been a bit unrealistic - Cups are always a great goal but what makes them attractive is that they are diffiuclt to win based on the one-off nature of matches.

We ALL accept that winning theis league and the next one's are a must - and we all expect better cup performancs BUT a guaranteed win in one is a strech.

Oh and if we did recruit a new manager would that be the expectation - must win a cup - what very season ? as I only expect our squad to get stronger as time passes so if that is the standard now will we sack any manager if we have a season without silverware?

[Muirheadbear 1,483]

We have the second biggest wage bill in Scotland. However, ra Sellick has a wage bill approx 4 times ours.

Why shold we be able to beat them at the moment?

[Stevie13 16]

Being realistic is a step that most of our fans need to take.

Look at the facts.

2nd highest wage bill in Scoland

Best training facilities in Scotland

Best youth academy in Scotland

Ally must compete in every competition we are part of. With all things considered we cannot just expect to win the league.

Green is right. If we just were happy with the league then we wouldn't need to make the signings we have and we shouldn't need the squad we have.

If Ally wasn't the player that he was we would not be accepting the performances that we are. I, amongst others, do not let that cloud my judgement. Ally should be judged on his performances alone. For me, he isn't cutting it.

[masonrfc 21]

He must win the Ramsdens Cup.

We should but with McCoist's cup record not as easy as it looks

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

We have the second biggest wage bill in Scotland. However, ra Sellick has a wage bill approx 4 times ours.

Why shold we be able to beat them at the moment?

As things stand we shouldn't be able to beat Celtic.

If we played Celtic and lost, no-one could complain aslong as we gave 100% and didn't get embarrassed

However if a one-off game anything can happen. So I'd be hopeful regardless.

For anyone who says "you said one off game, but that's what Forfar was - a one-off game" ... that wasn't a one-off game. It's continuous especially in cups under McCoist.

[EatDolphins 5,358]

If you're talking solely about the Scottish cup then yes I agree must is strong. Even at the top level we were never guaranteed it. But for the challenge cup? Yes, must is adequate.

[The Godfather 72,864]

Ally was given the funds to get players in who were of a standard that should be able to compete in the latter stages in domestic cups in Scotland.

If we were just 'accepting' league promotions then we shouldnt be bringing in these types of players as all it is is throwing money down the pan.

[bombaybadboy08 15,660]

I think he meant the Ramsdens but we really should be getting to the latter stages, if not the final of the big two.

Should being the operative word as I don't believe Ally is capable of getting the best out of whatever players he has at his disposal.

We didn't sign these guys to coast a shitey league, that's for sure.

[Faircity 186]

...We must win the league....anything else is a bonus...just look down south every year/other year premiership teams get pumped out of cups by sides many leagues below them...its cup football ffs...and while I,m at it the shite being put up on here regarding our manager is out of order!!...you should be ashamed to call yourselfs bears...

[*Manticore* 1,893]

Rangers need to win the League.

[1st_Jan_1994 4,868]

...We must win the league....anything else is a bonus...just look down south every year/other year premiership teams get pumped out of cups by sides many leagues below them...its cup football ffs...and while I,m at it the shite being put up on here regarding our manager is out of order!!...you should be ashamed to call yourselfs bears...

Could argue the contrary that if your happy with some of the shite you see and no-one should complain then maybe you've a cheek to call yourself a Bear - as the only people that enjoy our embarrassments on the pitch are tarriers.

Most of the stuff I see about McCoist is constructive.

[TheBluenose1972 1,405]

With our squad we should be aiming to win the Scottish Cup not Ramsden's ffs!!!!

Winning The Scottish Cup is a bigger achievement than winning all of Scotlands leagues bar the Premier.