Rangers fans for yes

[NitshillBear 1,455]

I don't expect to convince anybody here. Just posting what I think and why I think it. If you read it and you're still attached to a belief in the UK regardless, then so be it.

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Presume those going on about WoS know what "ad hominem" means. He's a fud when it comes to football, but the political stuff is generally meticulously sourced. And the Trident article isn't even him

Whoever asked, aye, plenty of facts. McCrone is a fact. The 40% amendment is a fact. The myth of subsidy is a fact. The ineffectiveness of Trident is a fact. Plenty of others to choose from as well.

We are well aware of WoS. You might be ale to get away with pushing his pish on blinkered people like Robespierre but it won't wash with others

I'll be honest and admit I didn't read it all as it was hard to follow but I don't know what a guy said about oil or the 40% amendment in 1974 has to do with the future of the country from May 2016? Even if it is fact

[Loyal Bear 72 363]

Voted Yes. Not arsed about the supposed "traditions" of my football team, want what's best for Scotland.

First of all, if your going to oppose one of our clubs traditions then just say you oppose it, don't claim the tradition is 'supposed' just because it is at odds with your views.

Secondly, the SNP have had 80 years to come up with some form of plan for an Independence Scotland. Now we are just over 2 weeks from a referendum on Scottish Independence and they have consistently failed to provide any concrete answers to the most fundamental of questions. The lack of answers as to how Scotland would function on it's own means it is an enormous gamble, the consequences of which would not be reversible.

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

If there's a yes vote and Alex Salmond gets his way there will be a monetary union and Scotland will use the Pound but the Bank of England(a foreign bank) will effectively control public spending in an "independent" Scotland can any of the Yes voters on here explain how they feel about this?

[NitshillBear 1,455]

We are well aware of WoS. You might be ale to get away with pushing his pish on blinkered people like Robespierre but it won't wash with others

I'll be honest and admit I didn't read it all as it was hard to follow but I don't know what a guy said about oil or the 40% amendment in 1974 has to do with the future of the country from May 2016? Even if it is fact

Like I said, the shite he posts about Rangers is hard to ignore...but I do that because the political and media coverage is very good. Anyone with a shred of a critical faculty can see that. The graphic and article linked from WoS don't even form a significant part of what I'm saying. But here's the thing about McCrone and the skullduggery of 1979...they did that then and t's a matter of historical record. The Westminster mainstream have demonstrated that they are unworthy of the mandate that we have been handing them for 40 years. By their every action, be it McCrone, 1979, the poll tax or the bedroom tax they demonstrate their contempt for us. What they did then should inform our judgement now, To be truly honest I'm fucked off with it. That's the bottom line.

[simplythebest 11,453]

I don't expect to convince anybody here. Just posting what I think and why I think it. If you read it and you're still attached to a belief in the UK regardless, then so be it.

The UK not being perfect isn't the issue, it's whether Scotland will be better off separate and no logical case based on facts has been put forward

[simplythebest 11,453]

Like I said, the shite he posts about Rangers is hard to ignore...but I do that because the political and media coverage is very good. Anyone with a shred of a critical faculty can see that. The graphic and article linked from WoS don't even form a significant part of what I'm saying. But here's the thing about McCrone and the skullduggery of 1979...they did that then and t's a matter of historical record. The Westminster mainstream have demonstrated that they are unworthy of the mandate that we have been handing them for 40 years. By their every action, be it McCrone, 1979, the poll tax or the bedroom tax they demonstrate their contempt for us. What they did then should inform our judgement now, To be truly honest I'm fucked off with it. That's the bottom line.

Welcome to politics, you think a government in Edinburgh won't lie and fuck you over just like a government in London?

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Like I said, the shite he posts about Rangers is hard to ignore...but I do that because the political and media coverage is very good. Anyone with a shred of a critical faculty can see that. The graphic and article linked from WoS don't even form a significant part of what I'm saying. But here's the thing about McCrone and the skullduggery of 1979...they did that then and t's a matter of historical record. The Westminster mainstream have demonstrated that they are unworthy of the mandate that we have been handing them for 40 years. By their every action, be it McCrone, 1979, the poll tax or the bedroom tax they demonstrate their contempt for us. What they did then should inform our judgement now, To be truly honest I'm fucked off with it. That's the bottom line.

His football stuff aside he is a disgusting, hate filled bigot just for starters. The worst part of his part in the Yes campaign is he won't even be voting Yes because he lives in fucking England. You couldn't make it up.

So basically just fuck Westminster and go it alone regardless of how much of a risk it is? Good logic. You come across as very anti-English btw.

[NitshillBear 1,455]

If there's a yes vote and Alex Salmond gets his way there will be a monetary union and Scotland will use the Pound but the Bank of England(a foreign bank) will effectively control public spending in an "independent" Scotland can any of the Yes voters on here explain how they feel about this?

I have no issue with monetary union and a relationship with the Bank of England because it's a fully nationalised UK institution and Scotland will continue to have some representation. Exactly what form that takes is still unclear because nobody on the no side wants to contemplate a yes vote. The BoE won't set levels of public spending though. There will be some shared aspects of monetary policy, primarily the setting of interest rates. As you might have guessed from my initial ramble, I'm no economist. I can't give you every answer. Actually, at this point nobody can, because the nature of a currency union will be part of the post-Yes negotiation, just as the timetable for the removal of Trident will be. But I have no problem with continuing to have a close relationship with our neighbours, because this isn't about ethnic nationalism.

[NitshillBear 1,455]

His football stuff aside he is a disgusting, hate filled bigot just for starters. The worst part of his part in the Yes campaign is he won't even be voting Yes because he lives in fucking England. You couldn't make it up.

So basically just fuck Westminster and go it alone regardless of how much of a risk it is? Good logic. You come across as very anti-English btw.

Again, playing the man rather than the ball. No idea how you can come to the conclusion I'm anti-English. I'm anti-BendingOverAndTakingItFromChinlessQuackingToriesLikeCameron.

[centenarystand 2,227]

Are all these yes voters going to be happy at PAYE rising to 30%?

If it went to Independence these mugs wouldn't know whats hit them.

[Robespierre 589]

First of all, if your going to oppose one of our clubs traditions then just say you oppose it, don't claim the tradition is 'supposed' just because it is at odds with your views.

Secondly, the SNP have had 80 years to come up with some form of plan for an Independence Scotland. Now we are just over 2 weeks from a referendum on Scottish Independence and they have consistently failed to provide any concrete answers to the most fundamental of questions. The lack of answers as to how Scotland would function on it's own means it is an enormous gamble, the consequences of which would not be reversible.

Staying in the UK is also a massive gamble. We know very little about what the Westminster government has in store for Scotland if a no vote is reached. There is not a lack of answers, you're just too lazy to go and seek them out for yourself.

The reason I said "supposed" is because it is not universally accepted by all supporters, and the whole protestant and unionist extremism arose within the club during the 60s, the club itself was not founded on these beliefs.

[NitshillBear 1,455]

Welcome to politics, you think a government in Edinburgh won't lie and fuck you over just like a government in London?

So, what, just let's not bother? Fuck that. Smaller, more transparent government that we, as a discrete, sovereign nation have elected is a better model than the centuries of accumulated bloat at Westmnster.

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Again, playing the man rather than the ball. No idea how you can come to the conclusion I'm anti-English. I'm anti-BendingOverAndTakingItFromChinlessQuackingToriesLikeCameron.

But you're happy enough to believe all the lies coming from the Yes camp?

You're reasons for voting yes just come acros as you'l do anything to cut ties with them

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Again, playing the man rather than the ball. No idea how you can come to the conclusion I'm anti-English. I'm anti-BendingOverAndTakingItFromChinlessQuackingToriesLikeCameron.

But you're happy enough to believe all the lies coming from the Yes camp?

You're reasons for voting yes just come acros as you'l do anything to cut ties with them

[NitshillBear 1,455]

Anyway, I'm out. My head has a prior engagement with a brick wall. Good luck Robespierre.

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

Staying in the UK is also a massive gamble. We know very little about what the Westminster government has in store for Scotland if a no vote is reached. There is not a lack of answers, you're just too lazy to go and seek them out for yourself.

The reason I said "supposed" is because it is not universally accepted by all supporters, and the whole protestant and unionist extremism arose within the club during the 60s, the club itself was not founded on these beliefs.

Protestant and Unionist extremism?You really don't do yourself any favours using that kind of language.

[MisterC 12,272]

Depends what story you want to believe

I would trust yougov over the daily record which isnt the most neutral paper out there

[MisterC 12,272]

Depends what story you want to believe

I would trust yougov over the daily record which isnt the most neutral paper out there

[sandyinroyalblue 16,478]

Are all these yes voters going to be happy at PAYE rising to 30%?

If it went to Independence these mugs wouldn't know whats hit them.

But i would be a fairer society because everybody would have fuck all.

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Brick wall? Explains alot

[simplythebest 11,453]

So, what, just let's not bother? Fuck that. Smaller, more transparent government that we, as a discrete, sovereign nation have elected is a better model than the centuries of accumulated bloat at Westmnster.

That'll be the model that's seen the NHS declining and them lying about it, ridiculous 'sectarian laws', council tax freezes, Salmond spending tax payers money to take jollies around the world etc.

I'd rather be part of something bigger than building barriers. I've got no emotional attachment to Westminster or the politicians in it but I'm not deluded enough to believe Holyrood is any better or that it will be better.

[kanjo 26,328]

I have no issue with monetary union and a relationship with the Bank of England because it's a fully nationalised UK institution and Scotland will continue to have some representation. Exactly what form that takes is still unclear because nobody on the no side wants to contemplate a yes vote. The BoE won't set levels of public spending though. There will be some shared aspects of monetary policy, primarily the setting of interest rates. As you might have guessed from my initial ramble, I'm no economist. I can't give you every answer. Actually, at this point nobody can, because the nature of a currency union will be part of the post-Yes negotiation, just as the timetable for the removal of Trident will be. But I have no problem with continuing to have a close relationship with our neighbours, because this isn't about ethnic nationalism.

Putting it into perspective. There will not be a MU but if there was, you would be happy for another country to set our interest rates?

It won't happen anyway and i will explain. There just seems to be contradictions everywhere here though.

rUK will not agree a MU because they will not subsidise an in independent Scotland. The tax payers in England, Wales and NI will NOT pay taxes to keep us secured. The argument of business trade being burnt out if there wasn't a MU has already been blown out the water given Eck's failure to raise it since Darling pointed it out 3 weeks ago.

I'd also be aware of having a border with our ONLY land-neighbour. If (and it's a big IF given Spain's declared veto) we choose to join the EU, we would not only be hindered by the Euro, but by forced Schengen status.

We will absolutely not have open borders with that.

You want a positive for Scotland staying in the UK then it's easy to find. You need to look at the finer details though.

[BlueAvenger 10,242]

Just a few points.

The separatists have no facts or evidence the we will be fairer / democratic / better off with independence.

Existing Oil - Salmond /SNP have miscalculated oil by 4 billion pounds

Austerity - additional 6 billion pounds in cuts / higher taxes / public sector cuts (austerity plus)

NHS - Salmond / SNP have awarded millions of pounds in private contracts.

Dishonesty - Look no further than Salmond / SNP

The SNP have never won 51% in actual votes.

Nuclear weapons - Salmond / SNP want to get rid of nuclear weapons but want to be protected by nuclear weapons.

Thatcher - The SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour Gov and 18 years of Thatcher followed.

The SNP were labelled the "Tartan Tories"

WingsoverScotland - Don't make me laugh

Currency / value ?

Savings?

Pensions?

Start up costs?

Defence?

Foreign policies?

Employment?

[sergio 1,199]

I made up my mind a long time ago on the vote for Independence. I didn't listen to any bluff or any bluster. I didn't look at the scenery or pay any attention to the romance of it all. I didn't listen to any scare stories from BT or from Yes. I didn't even wait for the white paper to come out.

What I did was look at what the Scottish people were promised by our own politicians if we got our own parliament and devolved powers. We were promised a fairer political system that would look after the interests of the Scottish people. A fairer Scotland for us all, a better place to live was the slogan. It was going to cost the Scottish tax payer a small fortune year on year, but it would be worth every penny they said, Scottish politicians looking after Scottish Interests making laws to suit Scotland's needs.

I think most people would agree that the Scottish Parliament hasn't really make that much of a difference to the people of Scotland, some even saying that it might as well not be there for all the good it was doing. As for devolution, well we were promised that it could make a real difference, better health care, better housing. better education and care for our elderly, Scottish taxpayers money being spent where it matters most, on the people of Scotland.

Spending Scotland's taxes on the things that really matter, you said?. They spent 1.2 billion on a tram system and almost half a billion on the parliamentary building (the monkey house to you or I) . These two are prime examples of the squandering of our money by our own politicians.

I think everyone would agree that, not only has Scotland not prospered under it's own parliament and devolution, it has actually gotten steadily worse. It's certainly not a better place to live in, and there are very few positives to be found.

When I have debated with Nat's, they point to free prescriptions for all, Council Tax freezes and free education as things that have improved for us since devolution. Although these are not to be ridiculed, I wonder if they are actually doing more harm than good. Are free prescriptions for those that can afford to pay a good idea? is freezing council tax when our councils are struggling and are cutting services a good idea?. Free education, sounds wonderful, but to those who can afford to pay? perhaps if we used some of that budget to tackle child poverty or more care for the elderly, it might be more practical.

I quickly came to the conclusion that, if the Scottish politicians couldn't make a difference with some powers, (and they are substantial) only a total madman would consider giving them total control of our affairs.

I am voting No