Classless And Undignified.

[Rfc#1. 1,877]

All opinions are valid. That's not the point.

Cuntish is relevant here. In my opinion, of course,

Not just any old serviceman! My old gramps, no less!!

Thank him for fighting for my freedom.

[Inigo 32,534]

Thank him for fighting for my freedom.

I will. I don't think he'll understand what an internet forum means. Or that his name is RFC#1, though.

I thank him all the time. The King thanked him personally too.

[Stoorie 1,088]

What the fuck are you rambling about? Auto-defend mode on.

Have you actually bothered to listen to this specific argument rather than lump it in with the other shite that's going on?

Ant and Dec are on the telly just now, with The Band of H.M. Royal Marines.

I'm sure it will cause offence to some on here, as "it's not dignified".

Handwringing arseholes will be challenged on the Internet.

Three cheers.......

[Rfc#1. 1,877]

I thank him all the time. The King thanked him personally too.

Sounds interesting.

[crazy bob swollenbaws 1,868]

So did the RAF.

They were the enemy. They, along with an an entire nation (just about), followed Hitler, yes. They were the aggressors, yes. That does not mean that their horribly misguided actions ( a whole nation falling to the Nazi domination suggests it's not all that difficult for humankind to be led astray in such a way) should mean that their deaths should be celebrated in a song at a fucking football match? Does it fuck. These were normal guys before the war, and the survivors became normal guys again once the war was over.

Many that post in the OT will know what my motivations are in regards to this. This is not just the opinion of someone that's third generation removed from the conflict. This is the opinion of a man that was involved in it and flew 44 times in British bombers, who's 7 crewmates died in the manner some of us sing about, and who to this day (at 95 years old) finds that song repulsive. I agree with his opinion, and make no apologies for defending it.

BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, this discussion IS free speech. At no point did I say they should be banned or jailed. I said they're cuntish.

Will given that these easily led jew, gypsy etc killers are mostly dead I dont think they will know or be offended by our adoption of this song. U see, our fans do not sing this as some third party. Our nation was the victim standing alone in the face of this aggression by these poor wee souls u are so worried about.

In my long experience those that have adopted the behaviours u seem to dispay have done so with a view to chipping away at british identity and instilling a guilt complex in the indigenous british people. Makes the gaining of victim status easier. U have to agree that this has been going on?

[Inigo 32,534]

Will given that these easily led jew, gypsy etc killers are mostly dead I dont think they will know or be offended by our adoption of this song. U see, our fans do not sing this as some third party. Our nation was the victim standing alone in the face of this aggression by these poor wee souls u are so worried about.

In my long experience those that have adopted the behaviours u seem to dispay have done so with a view to chipping away at british identity and instilling a guilt complex in the indigenous british people. Makes the gaining of victim status easier. U have to agree that this has been going on?

Lol. I'm fascinated that you seem to be wanting to tell a 95 year old man that fought in that particular defence of the nation how he should behave in relation to protecting British identity!

You're over dramatising the thing. This is not about British identity, it's about common decency (an intrinsic British value, or so I like to believe). I take it you can see that countless people manage to celebrate being British without celebrating the deaths of young men caught up in a terrible situation.

Also, I repeat, there is a big difference between celebrating individual deaths and celebrating victories that are part of British heritage. Regardless, I don't see the relevance at a football match. I can see the relevance of Ulster, Loyalist and Unionist songs. But songs about the Second World War specifically? At a football match? Really?

We have plenty of songs to celebrate being British without at the same time celebrating the deaths of normal people. And btw, this is not about the thoughts or feelings of Nazis, or even the feelings of guys that fought in the Luftwaffe (mostly just airmen, not Nazis). It's about respecting our own veterans, respecting the dead, and our own fans not being quite unnecessarily nasty.

[Inigo 32,534]

Sounds interesting.

He went down to get his DFM or one of his other medals, can't remember which.

[Inigo 32,534]

Ant and Dec are on the telly just now, with The Band of H.M. Royal Marines.

I'm sure it will cause offence to some on here, as "it's not dignified".

Handwringing arseholes will be challenged on the Internet.

Three cheers.......

You're not the brightest, are you?

[Wednesday Loyal 998]

This is a Rant.

Fuck everyone who thinks we Brits must stop believing in what we believe a fenian is a fenian a german bomber needed shooting down be it 10 20 or fucking 1000, the fucking Krankie tribute act tried to fuck this nation with the vote THEY FAILED We are 4 countries but 1 nation now and forever our name is GREAT Britain and it will be forever

And thats from a DREG of an England Fan from 2006

[Inigo 32,534]

This is a Rant.

Fuck everyone who thinks we Brits must stop believing in what we believe a fenian is a fenian a german bomber needed shooting down be it 10 20 or fucking 1000, the fucking Krankie tribute act tried to fuck this nation with the vote THEY FAILED We are 4 countries but 1 nation now and forever our name is GREAT Britain and it will be forever

Impressively staunch.

How does not singing a song about German bombers stop you 'believing' anything? How does it make you less British? Were you less British before we sang it every game, because we never used to sing it with such regularity?

I'm beginning to think you don't really understand what being British really is. The important things. The important things are not shooting down a few bombers, yet we don't sing about those things. Weird.

Yeah, it's auto-defend mode at the moment.

[The_Establishment_1873 46]

13 pages seems like only the start of the argument.

The bad bunny lit the touch paper and hopped away to leave the rest squabbling over nothing, every thread is the same after a few pages.

[Christchurch Rangers 1,229]

is this thread still rumbling on?

really havent we got better things to talk about?

its a great song, keep singing it

the end

[Phil 1,150]

The only argument should be who shot down the first bomber over Great Britain during WW2. What is not in questioned is that it was a Scottish Royal Air Force Squadron. But 2 Squadrons claim the Honour. 603 (City of Edinburgh) and 602 (City of Glasgow). The latter 602 (City of Glasgow) was the first of the reserve Squadrons, and the Squadron with the longest association with the Spitfire.

I'm fairly confident that the 602 museum still contains a spitfire as well

[Wednesday Loyal 998]

Impressively staunch.

How does not singing a song about German bombers stop you 'believing' anything? How does it make you less British? Were you less British before we sang it every game, because we never used to sing it with such regularity?

I'm beginning to think you don't really understand what being British really is. The important things. The important things are not shooting down a few bombers, yet we don't sing about those things. Weird.

Yeah, it's auto-defend mode at the moment.

Impressively staunch WTF

You Question what i think being British really is how many English born people say they are British and not English my loyalties lie with the crown and with the flag of GREAT Britain and if that means getting a stupid response from you as they say in Scotland GAE TO FUCK

[Stoorie 1,088]

Lol. I'm fascinated that you seem to be wanting to tell a 95 year old man that fought in that particular defence of the nation how he should behave in relation to protecting British identity!

You're over dramatising the thing. This is not about British identity, it's about common decency (an intrinsic British value, or so I like to believe). I take it you can see that countless people manage to celebrate being British without celebrating the deaths of young men caught up in a terrible situation.

Also, I repeat, there is a big difference between celebrating individual deaths and celebrating victories that are part of British heritage. Regardless, I don't see the relevance at a football match. I can see the relevance of Ulster, Loyalist and Unionist songs. But songs about the Second World War specifically? At a football match? Really?

We have plenty of songs to celebrate being British without at the same time celebrating the deaths of normal people. And btw, this is not about the thoughts or feelings of Nazis, or even the feelings of guys that fought in the Luftwaffe (mostly just airmen, not Nazis). It's about respecting our own veterans, respecting the dead, and our own fans not being quite unnecessarily nasty.

Absolute pish.

Long winded way of saying he has more sympathy with nazis than our own Airmen defending our country.

Then calling out other peoples intelligence? Defensive mode to protect your ramblings?

I'll glorify every victory over anyone who tries to take something from my country through violence, tyranny or political influence.

You have to be fishing here. If your not.........

By the way, Is that Bobby Sands in your sig? That could be construed as something else as well.

[crazy bob swollenbaws 1,868]

Lol. I'm fascinated that you seem to be wanting to tell a 95 year old man that fought in that particular defence of the nation how he should behave in relation to protecting British identity!

You're over dramatising the thing. This is not about British identity, it's about common decency (an intrinsic British value, or so I like to believe). I take it you can see that countless people manage to celebrate being British without celebrating the deaths of young men caught up in a terrible situation.

Also, I repeat, there is a big difference between celebrating individual deaths and celebrating victories that are part of British heritage. Regardless, I don't see the relevance at a football match. I can see the relevance of Ulster, Loyalist and Unionist songs. But songs about the Second World War specifically? At a football match? Really?

We have plenty of songs to celebrate being British without at the same time celebrating the deaths of normal people. And btw, this is not about the thoughts or feelings of Nazis, or even the feelings of guys that fought in the Luftwaffe (mostly just airmen, not Nazis). It's about respecting our own veterans, respecting the dead, and our own fans not being quite unnecessarily nasty.

Crap

No one forces u to sing it. It is about british identity and more specifically attacking those who wish to display it. Chip chip.

If ur grand dad wants to forgive then fine. Not everyone agrees tho including many vets.

Nastiness is in the eyes and ears of the beholder is it not?

[Inigo 32,534]

Impressively staunch WTF

You Question what i think being British really is how many English born people say they are British and not English my loyalties lie with the crown and with the flag of GREAT Britain and if that means getting a stupid response from you as they say in Scotland GAE TO FUCK

Your only concept of what it means to be British is loyalty to the crown and to a flag? Fair enough. Weird, though.

[Christchurch Rangers 1,229]

if ever there was a case of over analysis of a song and nit picking for the sake of nothing much, well then this thread takes the cake.

[Wednesday Loyal 998]

Your only concept of what it means to be British is loyalty to the crown and to a flag?

No being British means we are tolerant we try to integrate with minorities be it on our shores or foreign but if they want to fuck with us we fuck them to death or we come on here and think we are Ghandi

[Inigo 32,534]

Absolute pish.

Long winded way of saying he has more sympathy with nazis than our own Airmen defending our country.

Then calling out other peoples intelligence? Defensive mode to protect your ramblings?

I'll glorify every victory over anyone who tries to take something from my country through violence, tyranny or political influence.

You have to be fishing here. If your not.........

By the way, Is that Bobby Sands in your sig? That could be construed as something else as well.

No, he doesn't have more sympathy for the Nazis. Since when was it a sympathy comparison? His loyalties lie firmly with the UK. You are forgetting the point that he lost 7 good friends, crewmates, that died and are buried in Hanover. You are in no position to question his sympathies, especially given the fact that the discussion has at no point referred to which people deserve the more sympathy. It's about the appropriateness of one song.

This was a specific argument in elation to the suitability of singing that song. Putting up a straw man argument of the relative sympathies of my grandfather won't deflect from that.

And seeing as you don't seem to get it, the airmen were not Nazis, they were soldiers. Soldiers on the wrong side, something no doubt most of them recognise.

Why do you suppose very few British people elsewhere feel the need to sing that kind of song to celebrate their Britishness? And you're not glorifying the victory. You're glorifying the deaths of individuals. If you REALLY wanted to celebrate that victory, do you think it would be that song you would sing? Or would it be a song about the overall British victory over Nazi Germany, rather than a few lads in fighters shooting down a few lads in bombers?

[Stoorie 1,088]

Your only concept of what it means to be British is loyalty to the crown and to a flag? Fair enough. Weird, though.

More pish.

You seem to put people into a bracket, then call them weird!

Everyone has a different view of what their concept of being Brittish is. To isolate an individuals view then tar everyone with the same thoughts is quite subjective on YOUR part.

My views differ from many people in Great Britain, that's the thing that make me Brittish. The RIGHT to hold a different view.

Our forefathers fought and died for the RIGHTS that I hold dearly, and I'll celebrate those brave men in any way I think I should.

They gave me this right with their lives. I will thank them for all of mine.

[Inigo 32,534]

No being British means we are tolerant we try to integrate with minorities be it on our shores or foreign but if they want to fuck with us we fuck them to death or we come on here and think we are Ghandi

Tolerance, justice, dignity, forgiveness, fairness, common decency, history, achievement, heritage, culture etc, etc.

Not singing about killing young guys, enemies or not, at a fitbaw match.

[Wednesday Loyal 998]

No, he doesn't have more sympathy for the Nazis. Since when was it a sympathy comparison? His loyalties lie firmly with the UK. You are forgetting the point that he lost 7 good friends, crewmates, that died and are buried in Hanover. You are in no position to question his sympathies, especially given the fact that the discussion has at no point referred to which people deserve the more sympathy. It's about the appropriateness of one song.

This was a specific argument in elation to the suitability of singing that song. Putting up a straw man argument of the relative sympathies of my grandfather won't deflect from that.

And seeing as you don't seem to get it, the airmen were not Nazis, they were soldiers. Soldiers on the wrong side, something no doubt most of them recognise.

Why do you suppose very few British people elsewhere feel the need to sing that kind of song to celebrate their Britishness? And you're not glorifying the victory. You're glorifying the deaths of individuals. If you REALLY wanted to celebrate that victory, do you think it would be that song you would sing? Or would it be a song about the overall British victory over Nazi Germany, rather than a few lads in fighters shooting down a few lads in bombers?

Its Saturday night please keep posts to two lines the fucking cider is kicking in

[Inigo 32,534]

Crap

No one forces u to sing it. It is about british identity and more specifically attacking those who wish to display it. Chip chip.

If ur grand dad wants to forgive then fine. Not everyone agrees tho including many vets.

Nastiness is in the eyes and ears of the beholder is it not?

Why do you think virtually nobody else in Britain sings it to confirm their Britishness?

Trying too hard. Missing the point of being British.

[Wednesday Loyal 998]

Tolerance, justice, dignity, forgiveness, fairness, common decency, history, achievement, heritage, culture etc, etc.

Not singing about killing young guys, enemies or not, at a fitbaw match.

are you at unie and doing degree on winding people up