Was It Worth It?

[thehost 11,061]

advocaat was the last decent manager we had

[Guest]

Advocaat never spent the money - Murray did, Advocaat was given money he was told he could spend and spent it.

EBTs never "almost wiped us out" - We won the EBT case, the fact that Murray let the SPL etc treat us like we were guilty before proven innocent is what nearly wiped us out.

And the fact that Murray sold us to a sheister was the biggest issue.

So no, Adcocaat has fuck all to do with it. This is a shite thread with more nonsense from folk who need to do some reading outwith this forum.

Blame Murray and Whyte, and the SPL scumbags. Dont tbelieve the taig theory that the only reason we won so much back then is because we spent money we couldnt afford, we were the best team and won every game fair and square. If it werent for the hatred against us we wouldnt have went down the drain the way we did, and the nonsense posted on here about illegal spending and EBTs just plays into the hands of those who hate us.

[terry739 267]

Dick only spent what he was given.

The football then was amazing and was worth every penny of my season ticket.

Those Euro nights were unbelievable (and the bus trips back as well!!!)

[scottyscott1963 18,397]

I voted yes before I read any other comments.
Some day in the future all the negativity which have put us through h**l over these last 3 seasons will be a long distance memory (yup!! I know we will never forget our detractors) but the football side will fade into obscurity and we will always have our memories of THE ADVOCAT YEARS and beyond.
On and up for me,and back to where we should be and where we need to be which is all we ask.

[Wearethepeople72 1,845]

If we had won the Champions league, would you have voted differently?

Perhaps because I feel that was probably our best chance to do so. I don't think we will ever get a better opportunity due to the way football is these days with the likes of clubs like PSG, Man City, Chelsea, Real Madrid spending hundreds of millions on players.

[Jelavic191 4,474]

Disagree that he is the only person to blame.

Murray must take some blame for selling to a crook like Whyte.

CG and co must take some blame for blowing their way through all that cash with not a damn thing to show for it except a carpark and edmiston house, oh and wifi.

Craig whyte might be the guy that takes the most blame, but he is by no means the onyl person to blame in all of this.

Lloyds bank also shouldn't be forgotten for their role in the sale to Whyte.

[gmcf 34,302]

I'm 90% sure I am right, due to share issues I believe the first set of figures after advocaat left showed we had no debt at all

You are correct there was a share issue round about that time , think it was at the start of the AMcL era , where we raised about £50M , with David Murray and / or MIH subscribing the vast , vast majority.

We also sold our shops for £20m plus £2/3 M a year for x amount of years. Added to that we're the sales of Hutton and Ferguson ( I think )

I think the share issue was in direct response of the debt that had been accumulated . You'ld have thought the share issue , together with the sales of the shops and players would have wiped out the debt but it didn't seem to. There was a lot of ' smoke and mirrors ' going on and iirc the debt was still significant despite all this.

I can't give you anything other than my memories at the time , so I can't be too specific , but I do remember having these discussions with fellow bears at the time . It wasn't all one sided , though , as I say , it was rather vague , but I do believe we carried that debt for years later.

[crazy bob swollenbaws 1,868]

Aye, we all know that, but it was the EBT's that started the ball rolling that put us in the position we are in now.

Without all that shite, Murray wouldn't have been forced by Lloyds to sell the club to Craig Whyte.

U are correct mate. While u are at it lets just give up all those titles cause of the immorality of it all.

Wake up ffs.

Do u contribute to sfm by any chance??

[CanadianBacon 2,088]

advocaat was the last decent manager we had

Nah.........I'm not buying that.

There was this guy.......a club legend........an EK bloke too...........local link, etc.........damned if I can mind his moniker though.

[Creampuff 22,628]

BTW, EBT's started in Advocaats last year in managing our club, between 1998-2000 we never used them, and for the record as things stand, they are LEGAL.

No one debated the legality of EBTs. What was questioned was whether we operated ours within the law.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

There's was nothing wrong with using EBTs either.

I know that, you know that, everyone knows that, but it gave HMRC the excuse to come after us.

Remember, the club was up for sale for years, but no one would touch us because of the tax case.

I think a lot of people have misunderstood my OP. I was in no way blaming Advocaat, he only done what anybody would've done in his position. I was just pointing out that they were the years that we spent too much money, using a dodgy (but legal) tax system.

If the EBT's were never used, then no one could've came after us for what they thought was an illegal activity - Murray would've been able to sell the club to someone and probably would've made a profit. Someone like Shyte could never have taken control of the club and we wouldn't have had to go through the last 3 seasons getting arse raped at every turn.

We aren't even back in the SPL, and I'm sure we already have more debt than every other team except the tims and (I think) Dundee hivs

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

The fact that some believe think Advocaat/Smith/9IAR etc was to blame, that EBTs were illegal, or that Rangers did anything illegal shows how much bullshit, lies and nonsense has been spouted on forums etc for the last 3 years. Some folk havent a fucking clue why we are int he position we are in now because theyve read so much lies.

I can understand the media and the taigs muddying the water, but some of our fans did it too, and they should be ashamed.

who has said ebts were illegal?

All of us know they weren' t

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

Shit stirring thread lumping a load of stuff together that makes no sense.

Try getting your facts and numbers sorted op then try again.

What facts have I got wrong?

I never mentioned any numbers either, except for the £12m spent on Flo

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

Advocaat never spent the money - Murray did, Advocaat was given money he was told he could spend and spent it.

EBTs never "almost wiped us out" - We won the EBT case, the fact that Murray let the SPL etc treat us like we were guilty before proven innocent is what nearly wiped us out.

And the fact that Murray sold us to a sheister was the biggest issue.

So no, Adcocaat has fuck all to do with it. This is a shite thread with more nonsense from folk who need to do some reading outwith this forum.

Blame Murray and Whyte, and the SPL scumbags. Dont tbelieve the taig theory that the only reason we won so much back then is because we spent money we couldnt afford, we were the best team and won every game fair and square. If it werent for the hatred against us we wouldnt have went down the drain the way we did, and the nonsense posted on here about illegal spending and EBTs just plays into the hands of those who hate us.

Wit? Re read what I have written. I never blamed Advocaat, I never mentioned illegal spending.

Where are you getting this from?

[IfYeCannae 48]

What facts have I got wrong?

I never mentioned any numbers either, except for the £12m spent on Flo

David Murray admitted it was himself & the board that signed Flo, not Advocaat :

“They can blame me for one thing – buying Tore Andre Flo for £12 million," he rattled. "At that time, Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole cost £12 million for Manchester United and we could only, with a lot of pressure, get Flo. Unfortunately, he did not do it for us. I asked the board if we could do something and they could decide on the signing, but I was a big part of it.” - Scotsman interview with Alan Pattullo - 15th January 2009

[GOAT 30,449]

No one debated the legality of EBTs. What was questioned was whether we operated ours within the law.

And so far what is it, two? three? Judges have ruled we have.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

David Murray admitted it was himself & the board that signed Flo, not Advocaat :

They can blame me for one thing buying Tore Andre Flo for £12 million," he rattled. "At that time, Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole cost £12 million for Manchester United and we could only, with a lot of pressure, get Flo. Unfortunately, he did not do it for us. I asked the board if we could do something and they could decide on the signing, but I was a big part of it. - Scotsman interview with Alan Pattullo - 15th January 2009

Wow!! That is really clutching at straws.

[LaudrupsPatrickBoots 13,510]

David Murray admitted it was himself & the board that signed Flo, not Advocaat :

They can blame me for one thing buying Tore Andre Flo for £12 million," he rattled. "At that time, Dwight Yorke and Andy Cole cost £12 million for Manchester United and we could only, with a lot of pressure, get Flo. Unfortunately, he did not do it for us. I asked the board if we could do something and they could decide on the signing, but I was a big part of it. - Scotsman interview with Alan Pattullo - 15th January 2009

Don't know where the reference to Cole and Yorke's fee for Man Utd at the time comes from. Cole was at Man Utd for 5 years before we signed Flo and Yorke was signed for upwards of £12m 2 years before we signed him as well.

[Guest]

Wow!! That is really clutching at straws.

Kind of like this entire thread

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

And so far what is it, two? three? Judges have ruled we have.

Lord Nimmo Smith and 3 judges at each of the real court hearings. So 7 judges all in.

[IfYeCannae 48]

Don't know where the reference to Cole and Yorke's fee for Man Utd at the time comes from. Cole was at Man Utd for 5 years before we signed Flo and Yorke was signed for upwards of £12m 2 years before we signed him as well.

I have no idea, see David Murray, it was him that said it.

Wow!! That is really clutching at straws.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/alan-pattullo-rangers-chief-is-fully-aware-he-has-made-errors-but-he-defends-his-running-of-club-1-754246

Never mind though, blame Advocaat for it all you want..

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

Kind of like this entire thread

How is asking if you would still take the Advocaat years knowing where it has put us clutching at straws?

In fact, how is asking any question clutching at straws?

Making accusations on a technicality is severely clutching at straws.

[Guest]

How is asking if you would still take the Advocaat years knowing where it has put us clutching at straws?

In fact, how is asking any question clutching at straws?

Making accusations on a technicality is severely clutching at straws.

Saying "was it worth it" implies advocaat shares some of the blame. he doesnt.

[Redwhiteandblue 3,330]

I have no idea, see David Murray, it was him that said it.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/alan-pattullo-rangers-chief-is-fully-aware-he-has-made-errors-but-he-defends-his-running-of-club-1-754246

Never mind though, blame Advocaat for it all you want..

Where have I blamed Advocaat? I have said numerous times that Advocaat wasn't to blame. I said "the Advocaat years"

Try reading it again before you misquote me again.

[Guest]

Thats like saying "i got a blowjob off a supermodel in 1992 but i dont know if it was worth it because 14 years later some nutcase crashed into me on the M8"

If your saying it wasnt advocaats fault then why even mention it?