It's A Good News Week

[The Dude 20,026]

If anyone decries people from bringing up their vile past then that's a bad as condoning it.....never forget, never forgive the bheasts and the harm they did to innocent kids. Their IRA support is nearly as bad and should also be kept to the fore.

Fuck them the smelly bassas. Call them out every time for what they are.

Aye you're right there. Saying using to score points on the Internet is wrong is just like condoning abusing children.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

You know there's been Rangers fans who've done it too? I couldn't give a fuck less what team someone supports. It's utterly fucking disgusting and anyone who does it should face the most severe punishment. Using it as a throwaway in a football blog shows no regard for the victims of such a horrible thing.

And neither does ignoring it !

[The Dude 20,026]

And neither does ignoring it !

Who said anything about ignoring it? I've said the opposite numerous times in the thread. Report it to the police. There seems to be a big thing on peadophile cover ups just now. I'm pretty sure one at the top level of sport would be of interest.

[bluenose_n1 536]

You know there's been Rangers fans who've done it too? I couldn't give a fuck less what team someone supports. It's utterly fucking disgusting and anyone who does it should face the most severe punishment. Using it as a throwaway in a football blog shows no regard for the victims of such a horrible thing.

Mate they as a club openly aloud it to continue

Pretty sure Rangers haven't so I'm not even gony get into it with you

Your either a pape or you got a special cuddle when you were younger

[The Dude 20,026]

Mate they as a club openly aloud it to continue

Pretty sure Rangers haven't so I'm not even gony get into it with you

Your either a pape or you got a special cuddle when you were younger

Did they? Is there any evidence to back that up whatsoever?

Who said anything about Rangers as a club having done it?

That's it. I'm really a pape. I'm stunned it took so long to blow my cover.

[bluenose_n1 536]

Did they? Is there any evidence to back that up whatsoever?

Who said anything about Rangers as a club having done it?

That's it. I'm really a pape. I'm stunned it took so long to blow my cover.

Pretty sure someone posted a while back a bit from Lou macaris book which he stated it was the worst kept secret at Celtic park

[The Dude 20,026]

Pretty sure someone posted a while back a bit from Lou macaris book which he stated it was the worst kept secret at Celtic park

Well, throw away the key then.

[Gazza1212 1,212]

Where did the Dude mention diplomacy? Where did the Dude say that we were as bad as them?

What happened to us was wrong.

What happened to the young kids was wrong.

One has nothing to do with the other.

He infers we "are as bad as the tims" in his second reply, read the whole thread! Also to say making mention of the subject is "vile" is just wrong. THE CRIME ITSELF IS FUCKING WRONG. What? Am I wrong?

[ZZed 4,510]

Never suggested anything should be swept under the carpet.

Its being mentioned on this forum far to often. Remarks like 'A lot of guests in here tonight, well at least they're no oot touchin weans'

That's not highlighting cover ups or showing contempt for the crime, that's making cheap digs.

I see where you and the Dude are coming from but part of me knows that if you have a group of people who are constantly scrutinising an organisation for this then a few things happen: the organisation being watched becomes more sensitive to criticism and want to stop this so they ether silence the critics or make sure that they do not do what they are being criticised for or both, the people who support the organisation being criticised will minimise or deflect from the criticism, the organisation and or supporters will attack the critics in the hope that this ends the criticism. Another effect is that the organisation being criticised will put in procedures to prevent a re-occurrence and will be extra vigilant about the area they have been criticised for.

The critics actually start to operate as a reputational police by ensuring that the organisation can justify the protective features that it has put in place. In all, this level of criticism will make those at Parkhead do every thing to make sure this will not happen again as it is embarrassing to their reputation. The critics could well be acting as a protective feature making the organisation operate pre-emptively. I say this as someone who has nurse victims of sexual abuse and has helped those people pick up their lives again and part of this is, they correctly blame the right people and feel safe that it will not happen again as some one is forever watching, and that, is us that are forever watching and not allowing them to forget.

[Siam69 26,984]

Pretty sure someone posted a while back a bit from Lou macaris book which he stated it was the worst kept secret at Celtic park

Away from first-team and club matters, which were bad enough, another issue was beginning to raise its ugly head at the club. Within a month of my arrival one of the young players asked to see me in my office. 'Here we go,' I thought. 'That didn't take long. Here's a youngster in to complain about not being in the team. Straight away he's going to be into me to give him his chance.' He sat down and told me that he had had problems on a trip to North America with the youth team. One of the fellas in charge had made advances towards him.

As a manager you expect to have to sort out all sorts of problems. But this wasn't one I ever saw coming. I was staggered. To be frank, I didn't know how to respond for the best. Clearly the kid was distressed about what had happened, but I felt I couldn't just approach the accused and ask him to explain himself without proof. My hands were tied, in a way. I felt completely stuck and out of my depth. I spoke to my staff. They were shocked. My gut feeling was that the kid was speaking the truth, but there was no mechanism within the club or within my experience to deal with it. It was a police matter if anything. Any investigation had to start with them.

And that's exactly what happened.

A couple of years later it all came out. Celtic Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett was convicted of sexual abuse of three players, including Alan Brazil.

Frank Cairney, the manager of the Boys' Club, was charged but not convicted. It emerged that years earlier Jock Stein knew all about Torbett and kicked him out of the club. The wish to maintain the good name of Celtic, if that were ever a good enough reason, was the only thing that kept the issue from coming to light at that point. There was a string of allegations by young lads whose dreams of playing for Celtic were exploited, but it was the testimony of Alan Brazil, David Gordon and James McGrory that brought the matter to court, and Torbett to justice. [from Football, My Life. by LOU MACARI]

[Dazzler 2,428]

He infers we "are as bad as the tims" in his second reply, read the whole thread! Also to say making mention of the subject is "vile" is just wrong. THE CRIME ITSELF IS FUCKING WRONG. What? Am I wrong?

you are a bit Shouty.

No one is disputing that the crime is wrong.

[Gazza1212 1,212]

Then report it. Singing "who shagged all the boys" or writing "at least we never touched weans" online isn't fighting back as you so delusionally put.

Fighting back

The only one on here delusional is you if you think you're fooling anyone. I notice you conveniently forget to comment on the many valid points contained within the thread. Take your progressive politics to somewhere it's going to be appreciated.

[The Dude 20,026]

I see where you and the Dude are coming from but part of me knows that if you have a group of people who are constantly scrutinising an organisation for this then a few things happen: the organisation being watched becomes more sensitive to criticism and want to stop this so they ether silence the critics or make sure that they do not do what they are being criticised for or both, the people who support the organisation being criticised will minimise or deflect from the criticism, the organisation and or supporters will attack the critics in the hope that this ends the criticism. Another effect is that the organisation being criticised will put in procedures to prevent a re-occurrence and will be extra vigilant about the area they have been criticised for.

The critics actually start to operate as a reputational police by ensuring that the organisation can justify the protective features that it has put in place. In all, this level of criticism will make those at Parkhead do every thing to make sure this will not happen again as it is embarrassing to their reputation. The critics could well be acting as a protective feature making the organisation operate pre-emptively. I say this as someone who has nurse victims of sexual abuse and has helped those people pick up their lives again and part of this is, they correctly blame the right people and feel safe that it will not happen again as some one is forever watching, and that, is us that are forever watching and not allowing them to forget.

When the critics are viewed in the same way we view ours (Phil, Haggerty etc) it loses much, if not all, of the effect.

When it's done in the manner it's done by football fans (songs like who shagged all the boys) further lessens the effect.

In this day and age companies which work with large number of kids are putting in safeguards that never existed until recently.

Why aren't the same people shouting from the rooftops about other organisations who have covered up child abuse? If it was such a matter of concern I'd have expected some focus on recent allegations of abuse not one which was dealt with 20 years ago by the courts.

[The Dude 20,026]

The only one on here delusional is you if you think you're fooling anyone. I notice you conveniently forget to comment on the many valid points contained within the thread. Take your progressive politics to somewhere it's going to be appreciated.

Which valid points have I "conveniently" missed and I'll try answer them?

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Did they? Is there any evidence to back that up whatsoever?

Both Billy McNeil and Lou Macari have since admitted that it was an 'open secret' at Celtic Park.

Hugh Birt, testified under oath that Stein warned him to keep quiet so as to keep the clubs image clean.

There was an investigation by a journalist (which subsequently won awards) that proved beyond doubt that the board at the time knew what was happening, but remained quiet. Celtic never challenged this in court....

It wasn't just Torbett who was at it either. Cairney abused a kid on a trip to America (New Jersey I think itwas). When the kid reported what happened, his parents were asked to sign a disposition stating that the claims would be retracted. This action had followed on from subtle threats regarding the sons future playing career.

This is off the top of my head, but I could go on and on and provide numerous links to various stories, all backed up - but for some reason, you would continue to choose to believe that there was no cover up and that we're simply point scoring.

Strange behaviour.

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

Away from first-team and club matters, which were bad enough, another issue was beginning to raise its ugly head at the club. Within a month of my arrival one of the young players asked to see me in my office. 'Here we go,' I thought. 'That didn't take long. Here's a youngster in to complain about not being in the team. Straight away he's going to be into me to give him his chance.' He sat down and told me that he had had problems on a trip to North America with the youth team. One of the fellas in charge had made advances towards him.

As a manager you expect to have to sort out all sorts of problems. But this wasn't one I ever saw coming. I was staggered. To be frank, I didn't know how to respond for the best. Clearly the kid was distressed about what had happened, but I felt I couldn't just approach the accused and ask him to explain himself without proof. My hands were tied, in a way. I felt completely stuck and out of my depth. I spoke to my staff. They were shocked. My gut feeling was that the kid was speaking the truth, but there was no mechanism within the club or within my experience to deal with it. It was a police matter if anything. Any investigation had to start with them.

And that's exactly what happened.

A couple of years later it all came out. Celtic Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett was convicted of sexual abuse of three players, including Alan Brazil.

Frank Cairney, the manager of the Boys' Club, was charged but not convicted. It emerged that years earlier Jock Stein knew all about Torbett and kicked him out of the club. The wish to maintain the good name of Celtic, if that were ever a good enough reason, was the only thing that kept the issue from coming to light at that point. There was a string of allegations by young lads whose dreams of playing for Celtic were exploited, but it was the testimony of Alan Brazil, David Gordon and James McGrory that brought the matter to court, and Torbett to justice. [from Football, My Life. by LOU MACARI]

Enough said - definitely room for another Penn State - and rid them of their titles, some fenian cash and stop them operating for a wee while, (mibe long while).

[Straight-Edge-Loyal 6,696]

Nothing to do with us is the failure of the bheast so doesn't belong in the Bears Den

[The Dude 20,026]

Away from first-team and club matters, which were bad enough, another issue was beginning to raise its ugly head at the club. Within a month of my arrival one of the young players asked to see me in my office. 'Here we go,' I thought. 'That didn't take long. Here's a youngster in to complain about not being in the team. Straight away he's going to be into me to give him his chance.' He sat down and told me that he had had problems on a trip to North America with the youth team. One of the fellas in charge had made advances towards him.

As a manager you expect to have to sort out all sorts of problems. But this wasn't one I ever saw coming. I was staggered. To be frank, I didn't know how to respond for the best. Clearly the kid was distressed about what had happened, but I felt I couldn't just approach the accused and ask him to explain himself without proof. My hands were tied, in a way. I felt completely stuck and out of my depth. I spoke to my staff. They were shocked. My gut feeling was that the kid was speaking the truth, but there was no mechanism within the club or within my experience to deal with it. It was a police matter if anything. Any investigation had to start with them.

And that's exactly what happened.

A couple of years later it all came out. Celtic Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett was convicted of sexual abuse of three players, including Alan Brazil.

Frank Cairney, the manager of the Boys' Club, was charged but not convicted. It emerged that years earlier Jock Stein knew all about Torbett and kicked him out of the club. The wish to maintain the good name of Celtic, if that were ever a good enough reason, was the only thing that kept the issue from coming to light at that point. There was a string of allegations by young lads whose dreams of playing for Celtic were exploited, but it was the testimony of Alan Brazil, David Gordon and James McGrory that brought the matter to court, and Torbett to justice. [from Football, My Life. by LOU MACARI]

Doesn't quite say the "worst kept secret" at Celtic Park.

Alan Brazil refutes that claim and insists it was only the Kelly's who knew about it. Stein knew nothing.

Since then a section of Rangers fans have been blasted for singing Big Jock Knew at games.

The chant alleges former Scotland and Celtic boss Jock Stein, right, tried to cover up Torbetts sordid crimes. Me: So did Big Jock know?

Alan says emphatically: No chance. Big Jock wouldnt stand for any nonsense would he?

But I tell you who did know The Kelly family who ran Celtic at the time.

They stood by him. One of the Kellys was even with Torbett in court. That p****d me off big style.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/2302640/Matt-meets-Alan-Brazil.html

[WATP-FOREVER 5,231]

When the critics are viewed in the same way we view ours (Phil, Haggerty etc) it loses much, if not all, of the effect.

When it's done in the manner it's done by football fans (songs like who shagged all the boys) further lessens the effect.

In this day and age companies which work with large number of kids are putting in safeguards that never existed until recently.

Why aren't the same people shouting from the rooftops about other organisations who have covered up child abuse? If it was such a matter of concern I'd have expected some focus on recent allegations of abuse not one which was dealt with 20 years ago by the courts.

in a democratic country, your view is outnumbered.

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Pretty sure someone posted a while back a bit from Lou macaris book which he stated it was the worst kept secret at Celtic park

Found it:

Away from first-team and club matters, which were bad enough, another issue was beginning to raise its ugly head at the club. Within a month of my arrival one of the young players asked to see me in my office. 'Here we go,' I thought. 'That didn't take long. Here's a youngster in to complain about not being in the team. Straight away he's going to be into me to give him his chance.' He sat down and told me that he had had problems on a trip to North America with the youth team. One of the fellas in charge had made advances towards him.

As a manager you expect to have to sort out all sorts of problems. But this wasn't one I ever saw coming. I was staggered. To be frank, I didn't know how to respond for the best. Clearly the kid was distressed about what had happened, but I felt I couldn't just approach the accused and ask him to explain himself without proof. My hands were tied, in a way. I felt completely stuck and out of my depth. I spoke to my staff. They were shocked. My gut feeling was that the kid was speaking the truth, but there was no mechanism within the club or within my experience to deal with it. It was a police matter if anything. Any investigation had to start with them.

And that's exactly what happened.

A couple of years later it all came out. Celtic Boys' Club founder Jim Torbett was convicted of sexual abuse of three players, including Alan Brazil.

Frank Cairney, the manager of the Boys' Club, was charged but not convicted. It emerged that years earlier Jock Stein knew all about Torbett and kicked him out of the club. The wish to maintain the good name of Celtic, if that were ever a good enough reason, was the only thing that kept the issue from coming to light at that point. There was a string of allegations by young lads whose dreams of playing for Celtic were exploited, but it was the testimony of Alan Brazil, David Gordon and James McGrory that brought the matter to court, and Torbett to justice.

[from Football, My Life. by LOU MACARI]

[The Dude 20,026]

Both Billy McNeil and Lou Macari have since admitted that it was an 'open secret' at Celtic Park.

Hugh Birt, testified under oath that Stein warned him to keep quiet so as to keep the clubs image clean.

There was an investigation by a journalist (which subsequently won awards) that proved beyond doubt that the board at the time knew what was happening, but remained quiet. Celtic never challenged this in court....

It wasn't just Torbett who was at it either. Cairney abused a kid on a trip to America (New Jersey I think itwas). When the kid reported what happened, his parents were asked to sign a disposition stating that the claims would be retracted. This action had followed on from subtle threats regarding the sons future playing career.

This is off the top of my head, but I could go on and on and provide numerous links to various stories, all backed up - but for some reason, you would continue to choose to believe that there was no cover up and that we're simply point scoring.

Strange behaviour.

Even the cover up stories are muddled. Some say Stein knew, others say he didn't. The only consistent bit seems to be that the Kelly's knew.

[Siam69 26,984]

Doesn't quite say the "worst kept secret" at Celtic Park.

Alan Brazil refutes that claim and insists it was only the Kelly's who knew about it. Stein knew nothing.

Since then a section of Rangers fans have been blasted for singing Big Jock Knew at games.

The chant alleges former Scotland and Celtic boss Jock Stein, right, tried to cover up Torbetts sordid crimes. Me: So did Big Jock know?

Alan says emphatically: No chance. Big Jock wouldnt stand for any nonsense would he?

But I tell you who did know The Kelly family who ran Celtic at the time.

They stood by him. One of the Kellys was even with Torbett in court. That p****d me off big style.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/2302640/Matt-meets-Alan-Brazil.html

So Celtic covered up child abuse, putting the 'good name' of the Club first before the rape of children, and as such are just as guilty for any subsequent children being abused by those who they covered up for.

There's not a week goes by on RM that I don't get into a disagreement with one VB or another, to do with the Boardroom stuff.

But I'm totally behind them in highlighting this disgusting action by a disgusting club, and even moreso when I read stuff by taigs saying EBT's are the biggest scandal to hit Scottish football.

Is it fuck, it's the first line in my post, by a country mile

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

Did they? Is there any evidence to back that up whatsoever?

Who said anything about Rangers as a club having done it?

That's it. I'm really a pape. I'm stunned it took so long to blow my cover.

Yes they did and well evidenced at the time. Actually the DR gave it full coverage. As for BJ knowing, every cunt knew and let it continue. Sweep, sweep.

As a fucking breed they are riddled with it. Incestuous bastards. I know of one taig who raped all six of his daughters. He disappeared, hopefully well fucking butchered and slowly.

Yes, all are heinous bastards who commit this crime and deserve death, but with them it is institutional within their satanic excuse for a church, their fucking leaders covering it up at every turn and therein lies the difference between them and the rest of the planet. One fucking cardinal in Rome, even blamed the victims FFS!

Their paedophile church set the example and those taig bastards should never be allowed to forget, together with every other crime they commit, no mater how small. Do unto others as they say and as I said give every last fuckin one them the mark of the bheast on their forehead as they truly fucking deserve.

They are a cancer in Scottish society today and that cancer needs expunged!

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

Did they? Is there any evidence to back that up whatsoever?

Who said anything about Rangers as a club having done it?

That's it. I'm really a pape. I'm stunned it took so long to blow my cover.

Yes they did and well evidenced at the time. Actually the DR gave it full coverage. As for BJ knowing, every cunt knew and let it continue. Sweep, sweep.

As a fucking breed they are riddled with it. Incestuous bastards. I know of one taig who raped all six of his daughters. He disappeared, hopefully well fucking butchered and slowly.

Yes, all are heinous bastards who commit this crime and deserve death, but with them it is institutional within their satanic excuse for a church, their fucking leaders covering it up at every turn and therein lies the difference between them and the rest of the planet. One fucking cardinal in Rome, even blamed the victims FFS!

Their paedophile church set the example and those taig bastards should never be allowed to forget, together with every other crime they commit, no mater how small. Do unto others as they say and as I said give every last fuckin one them the mark of the bheast on their forehead as they truly fucking deserve.

They are a cancer in Scottish society today and that cancer needs expunged!

[Dazzler 2,428]

So Celtic covered up child abuse, putting the Club first before the rape of children, and as such are just as guilty for as subsequent children being abused by those who they cover up for.

There's not a week goes by that don't get into a disagreement with one VB or another, to do with the Boardroom stuff.

Bur I'm totally behind them in highlighting this disgusting action by a disgusting club, and even moreso when I read stuff by taigs saying EBT's are the biggest scandal to hit Scottish football.

Is it fuck, it's the first line in my post, by a country mile

If a Celtic fan say's EBT's are the biggest scandal to hit Scottish football then you are 100% spot on to point out their club is complicit in a far worse crime. Its not even close.

However a lot of the comments thrown about in here (often directed towards other Rangers fans) is wrong. The are cheap classless remarks.