Lack of transfer fees..

[John Greig's Sideburns 177]

9 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

For a start are you telling me rossiter, windass and crooks will have £0 sell on value? Signing those type of players is completely sustainable and shows great foresight and planning. Hill, Barton, Kranjcar will have no sell on value but they will pass on experience to the younger players.

i think you are also forgetting that MW values youth players coming through the ranks and with currant leaving there will be significant focus on this area. Assuming we get some players coming through then that too is sustainable.

I think both sides will argue the point until the end of the window (daft saying that when it's not even open yet) and then again when next season is over and we see how we fared.

1 - I have no idea where you've pulled the sell on points about, and for the record who knows if they do, if they perform then yes but if they flop then not really. And further, signing 3 twenty year olds with 2 of them playing for one of the worst league sides in English football and the other playing barely any games isn't a sustainable strategy (although in Rossiter's case he's clearly incredibly talented and great potential, but there's still a risk he could fail)

2 - I've heard this being plastered around but I've not really seen it in action as of yet. In fact, he's done almost the exact same thing McCoist did yet has received no criticism for it. League wrapped up yet one of the countries best youngsters, Liam Burt, barley got any playing time and a former captain of Manchester United at youth level Jordan Thompson, before he left on loan, received, to my memory, 10 minutes for an entire half of a season. Now, I'm pleased Durranty has left and someone MW wants will be brought in and hopefully we will begin to see this youth strategy.

3 - You can still place monetary bids for players and speak with them and their respective clubs when the window isn't open

[ForeverAndEver 71,485]

10 minutes ago, Smile said:

Arteta still playing at a high level now shows you what a quality player he was.

Arteta has retired  

[John Greig's Sideburns 177]

18 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

Would Flo have finished it just because we paid £12m for him? Transfer fees don't automatically relate to quality, look at rod Wallace signed on a free transfer for example.

That argument doesn't particularly hold up, it's like saying, "let's compare Ronaldo to Bebe". It works both ways and more often than not a large transfer fee does indicate quality when compared to a free

[Smile 26,606]

Just now, ForeverAndEver said:

Arteta has retired  

He was still playing last season though for Le Arse.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

1 hour ago, Prso's headband said:

99% of you haven't watched any player we have signed for over 5 games. So how can you say they are pish already or aren't good enough to win us the league?

It gets boring listening to the same drivel from Fifa managers online who automatically claim players aren't good because of their name Or because the SPL is La Liga quality?

Money rarely = success and that's not counting the money on fees, wages and compensation already. 

People are wanting us to spend just for the sake of it. 

The manager has said before money doesn't guarantee quality and that if he did have a £5m transfer kitty he wouldn't be looking to spend it all for the sake of it.

If MW is happy with the transfer dealings then why can't the fans accept it?

 

I would also say though that some people are in the know, and we have to show a bit or respect to their opinion and knowledge on the matter. Yeah some people don't know, some have a little knowledge and some do know. But I think it's important to be respectful to all sides of the argument and not jump to conclusions regarding a posters knowledge or lack of knowledge.

[DeanMK 4,670]

Not worried at all when we've signed players like Barton, Rossiter and Hill. Mariappa and Kranjacar also rumoured so we're managing to pick up decent bosmans.

[NeoGeo7 10,517]

2 minutes ago, John Greig's Sideburns said:

1 - I have no idea where you've pulled the sell on points about, and for the record who knows if they do, if they perform then yes but if they flop then not really. And further, signing 3 twenty year olds with 2 of them playing for one of the worst league sides in English football and the other playing barely any games isn't a sustainable strategy (although in Rossiter's case he's clearly incredibly talented and great potential, but there's still a risk he could fail)

2 - I've heard this being plastered around but I've not really seen it in action as of yet. In fact, he's done almost the exact same thing McCoist did yet has received no criticism for it. League wrapped up yet one of the countries best youngsters, Liam Burt, barley got any playing time and a former captain of Manchester United at youth level Jordan Thompson, before he left on loan, received, to my memory, 10 minutes for an entire half of a season. Now, I'm pleased Durranty has left and someone MW wants will be brought in and hopefully we will begin to see this youth strategy.

3 - You can still place monetary bids for players and speak with them and their respective clubs when the window isn't open

1 - you were talking about sustainability.....well signing players for free and selling them for 1m+ for me is sustainable.

2 - you have a point in that I expected to see some youth players get a shot and was a bit disappointed but it's our first year in trying to get all levels playing the same way. It could be years before we see any rewards coming through.

3 - perhaps however generally speaking transfers involving fees really only pick up towards the end of the window. Maybe this is what we are doing. See what targets we can sign for free and then plug in the gaps (or add quality) with loan signings or transfers for fees in July or August.

[John Greig's Sideburns 177]

Again on the subject of free transfers, I have no problem with us signing players who choose not to renew their contact with a new club as they more attractive options available to them, eg Barton, whoever I do have issue with us signing a majority of players who are involuntarily without a club, eg Hill.

[NeoGeo7 10,517]

1 minute ago, John Greig's Sideburns said:

Again on the subject of free transfers, I have no problem with us signing players who choose not to renew their contact with a new club as they more attractive options available to them, eg Barton, whoever I do have issue with us signing a majority of players who are involuntarily without a club, eg Hill.

I know where you are coming from, we want players in demand rather than on the scrap heap. However, so,far it's only Hill out of 5 signings that weren't offered new deals or have other options. Kranjcar is rumoured to be wanted by a number of clubs but I've no idea about mariappa.

[Smile 26,606]

I kinda looking forward to seeing Clint Hill give his interview seems very Honest guy.

[sammy cox 664]

2 minutes ago, Rangers_no1 said:

He scored goals at a higher level, would have had more faith in him than Boyd, that's for sure. Yeah I never suggested otherwise, but free transfers only take you so far. 

@sammy cox Boyd scored more goals than Jelavic, but I think there would only be a tiny minority that would have take Boyd over Jelavic if both were available. Jelavic was a superior player, more so than not you get what you pay for. Spending money on a quality player like Jelavic and giving him the platform to perform and potentially sell him on for a fee is sensible business, something we've lacked for a long time. We're a selling club now, even-though some can't accept it. It makes more business sense to go down that route than spending 300K on Boyd who would never fetch a big transfer fee. 

Whether we are a selling club or not will be open to opinion and who knows how things will be in the future. Jelavic was a good player but strikers especially are judged on goals scored and pound for goal Boyd has been the best return in that area in the past several years.As I said earlier he has scored more than 20 million pounds worth combined.I agree he had no sell on value but considering what he cost against the others we can't really grumble about that.

[Prso's headband 35,451]

3 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

I would also say though that some people are in the know, and we have to show a bit or respect to their opinion and knowledge on the matter. Yeah some people don't know, some have a little knowledge and some do know. But I think it's important to be respectful to all sides of the argument and not jump to conclusions regarding a posters knowledge or lack of knowledge.

So their scouts or in the know? Completely different. The way people go on in here like they are professional scouts on every player were ever linked with is remarkable. 

Am no saying I know anything about any of these players but I trust the managements judgement who had stated time and again their work for these transfers started months ago

[John Greig's Sideburns 177]

1 minute ago, NeoGeo7 said:

1 - you were talking about sustainability.....well signing players for free and selling them for 1m+ for me is sustainable.

2 - you have a point in that I expected to see some youth players get a shot and was a bit disappointed but it's our first year in trying to get all levels playing the same way. It could be years before we see any rewards coming through.

3 - perhaps however generally speaking transfers involving fees really only pick up towards the end of the window. Maybe this is what we are doing. See what targets we can sign for free and then plug in the gaps (or add quality) with loan signings or transfers for fees in July or August.

1 - A few players yes, but comprising our whole team of them isn't for me

2 - No disagreements there, although I hope Burt features a decent amount next season.

3 - No disagreements

[wullyRFC 5,230]

Kings £30M will be spent any day now

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

8 minutes ago, John Greig's Sideburns said:

1 - I have no idea where you've pulled the sell on points about, and for the record who knows if they do, if they perform then yes but if they flop then not really. And further, signing 3 twenty year olds with 2 of them playing for one of the worst league sides in English football and the other playing barely any games isn't a sustainable strategy (although in Rossiter's case he's clearly incredibly talented and great potential, but there's still a risk he could fail)

2 - I've heard this being plastered around but I've not really seen it in action as of yet. In fact, he's done almost the exact same thing McCoist did yet has received no criticism for it. League wrapped up yet one of the countries best youngsters, Liam Burt, barley got any playing time and a former captain of Manchester United at youth level Jordan Thompson, before he left on loan, received, to my memory, 10 minutes for an entire half of a season. Now, I'm pleased Durranty has left and someone MW wants will be brought in and hopefully we will begin to see this youth strategy.

3 - You can still place monetary bids for players and speak with them and their respective clubs when the window isn't open

I agree with both arguments really, but what it comes down to is risk.

Yes, you can get quality free transfers or low cost transfers, but they are free and low cost usually for a reason. Now a manager can perhaps think they can correct a fault, but sometimes nothing can be done. 

People saying high cost doesn't guarantee quality - of course it doesn't, but it goes a long way to showing that person has been valued in the current market and is seen as a player of quality and experience, or potential.

I think the two extremes have been delved into far too readily, if Warburton wants to continue getting free transfers and low cost signings and play the high risk game then so be it. But if he fails too often then a lot can be lost. 

I would rather have a mixture between the two, signing higher risk free players etc and a few higher valued players that we are more likely to get what we ask for.

Just my thoughts on it.

[NeoGeo7 10,517]

5 minutes ago, John Greig's Sideburns said:

1 - A few players yes, but comprising our whole team of them isn't for me

2 - No disagreements there, although I hope Burt features a decent amount next season.

3 - No disagreements

We are in a transitional phase here. We have 1 McCoist signing left (that we don't want to keep) so we are just about there with regards to getting a team that we can work with and move forward. If we see this trend over the next 3/4 years then yes we might need to get worried but I think we are just seeing Warburton transform the team with a very limited budget. His signings have to be well thought out and shrewd and so far I think he is doing that.

[lgr1991 303]

I hope, maybe naively, that we are signing experienced players that wont have as much sell on value for free and saving any transfer fees for young players we can develop. 

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

5 minutes ago, Prso's headband said:

So their scouts or in the know? Completely different. The way people go on in here like they are professional scouts on every player were ever linked with is remarkable. 

Am no saying I know anything about any of these players but I trust the managements judgement who had stated time and again their work for these transfers started months ago

I trust our management team as well, but to compare some on here to being scouts is a bit hysterical. Some lads are in the know, are not going over the top trying to be scouts and are trying to give us a little knowledge - which I'm all for. I wouldn't want to repress this simply because there are some dicks on here puffing out their chest and being a know it all due to playing a computer game. 

Not all are like that and their opinions deserve some respect.

[The Mailman 330]

I really don't get some people, we're getting quality players for free or next to nothing . There really is no pleasing some people .

[John Greig's Sideburns 177]

12 minutes ago, NeoGeo7 said:

I know where you are coming from, we want players in demand rather than on the scrap heap. However, so,far it's only Hill out of 5 signings that weren't offered new deals or have other options. Kranjcar is rumoured to be wanted by a number of clubs but I've no idea about mariappa.

I get that, I was using some of the players linked. And I think Mariappa would be a good signing even though he falls under the negative point I was making

[ronniescu 2,975]

2 hours ago, kaiser1041 said:

Better off wae Johnny Vaughan 

Any advance on Frankie Vaughan?  (One for the teenagers)

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

6 minutes ago, ronniescu said:

Any advance on Frankie Vaughan?  (One for the teenagers)

Stevie Ray Vaughan?

[Reformation Bear 6,453]

Seems to me it is early days yet.   King and the Board know full well that we saw around £30m of players just walk out the door when we went to Div 3.    Replacing with equivalent or better quality and winning 55 quickly would be very hard to achieve on the back of 'minimum or no fee' approaches to signings so far. 

It also seems to me that having acquired players and produced a team to win the Championship a re-working of the squad is underway with the mind firmly set on 55 asap and Europe next season.      If the DK strategy bought into by MW is 'same again please' for next season ie spend as little as you can on transfer fees and see if 55 can be done by collecting such a squad then I'd be a little bit worried.   Hoping that they could be quickly forged into a title winning team at the first ask might be a very tall order albeit if it doesn't pay off then more money is spent the following season (maybe after raising more capital in the markets) to build on the experience of this season.   

If that is the unstated plan then that would seem to be to be a bit of a gamble.    For one thing the season would then need to demonstrate considerable momentum towards 55 and not result in us just middling along which was - as I recall it - a concern of Walter S a while back.  The point being that when back in the top flight then we'd need to be competitive quickly.   

I still think that to be competitive quickly and win 55 quickly some reasonably serious dosh (by Scottish standards) would need to be spent.     On what though?    Bolstering the spine.  

A goal scoring No9 (don't know why MW rarely, if ever, talks about No9) - someone big, quick, strong and who should be capable of scoring a decent amount of goals and creating a bundle of assists in this league.    We surely need to have an option to change the game - mix it up when needed - get on the end of crosses - get on the end of corner kicks and free kicks.    Just retaining possession and trying to pass the opposition into defeat game after game may be too inflexible for the Scottish Premiership types of games.   

I'm sure Hill will be fine for much of the time but another experienced CB seems necessary to me.  Assuming Bell leaves an experienced GK is needed.   

That shopping list could cost a few £m acknowledging that finding an experienced No9 that is affordable might be nigh on impossible but there we are - goals win games as does avoiding losing goals.   Spending to vastly improve the chances of goal scoring and materially improve the resilience to conceding goals seems to me to be where some money should be spent if DK is looking to get to 55 quickly.    

[MasterD 7,435]

Not overly concerned about lack of transfer fees yet. Under contract players tend to happen later in the window compared to free transfers that are looking to move quickly.

We need a quality CB and striker, if there's none available for free then money has to be spent, if it's not then it's either the board not having the money or MW underestimating the challenge ahead, or a bit of both.

[stevemartin1991 262]

Youve got to look at the bigger picture, until our merchandise deal is sorted we will continue to use the market wisely. 

If you want us to spend 5 million on players and then Have to take loans out halfway through the season you are moronic.

we are a team rebuilding. The stadium is getting slowly improved, our shite players are gone, we are getting in a mix of players. 

I would be more worried if we were throwing money at players. Times have changed. Lets hope it pays off. Going for 55