Who is to blame?

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

4 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

That is good post on the whole, and it is very hard for me to disagree with the first few paragraphs in particular. In terms of investment strategy borrowing to generate working capital, for instance, is quite common, whether on a micro or a macro level; most companies do that, particularly new companies, or companies that want to expand in the long term but need a short term fix. You're post only highlights why I have sympathy for those that are running the club, and as you acknowledge our football landscape is unique. I'm convinced, and I say that as someone not particularly a fan of King, that we are putting efforts into what we do off the field, and on the field to make us much more competitive in the future; but it will take time. We have obstacles in our way, that are sourced in terms of finance, and also mostly outwith our own control; we are not alone in that respect, but our own unique challenges are particularly difficult.

I have some sympathy to as football clubs are never easy to run due to the emotions that go with it, but this board seriously need to get of the pot. They have become masters of spin. Releasing the occasional statement that lacks any coherency.

The retail deal is a point in case, now further complicated by Puma. FFS, are we going up against them now?! The thing is, it isn't quite clear. For me that whole situation was handled badly and it all became personal. If both could only have left their egos at the front door. I now haven't a clue where we are at with it and I would hazard to guess that it's by design. So all in limbo there, little or no cash coming in.

Our MD tries for a shot at SFA board. Told to fuck off and then silence.

Again Shafted by the SFA for the scenes at the SCF.

We have a divisive pantomime going at with C1872, with an intimidator of fans standing for election.

Pending court case with ex Directors, whch IMHO, all will walk, with some if any getting fined.

BTC, fuck all to do with us, but nice to win it.

All are uneccessary distractions, that this board use as deflections from their day job, in creating wealth to fund the challege. No apoligies, but they are amateurs with an apparent agenda that doesn't match our expectations.

No matter how bad the state of a business is in, it is for the board to take control and be masters of their own destiny, devoping the plan and deploying coherent strategies to fullfil the vision, otherwise they should never be in the job in the first place and no amount of excuses change that and as I have said, I have seen none of it.

 

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,715]

45 minutes ago, Corky True Legend said:

A bit off topic (sorry) but as that proves she was on the field and has broken the law, 1. has she been charged yet? and 2. can she now continue as FM or even an MSP?

Clap her in irons and throw her in the Tower the treacherous bitch ! ?

[Getstiffed 8,863]

41 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

CL money for a club like ours would have to be viewed over perhaps three seasons- therefore if it led to a signing because of CL football in order that we would compete it would take the whole of that player's contract into account. .What couldn't happen is that we would gain CL money and imagine that this is our income X for one year, and so we would spend X for one year. CL money x, would contribute to the expenditure of three seasons perhaps; especially in player expenditure. That would be my preference anyway . Because it is bonus related, and because of the impact it would have in percentage terms to our revenue, and not really revenue in a conventional sense, I think it would be wise to project it's worth over a few seasons. 20 million is about a 5th of the tv revenue of some average sized clubs who find themselves the top scale bracket of that kind of tv deal. It is not much in comparative terms at all.

The point I was making is that they won't (and I said for the whole summer they wouldn't and they didn't) spend even a third of it on transfers because they have a load of financial gaps to plug.

The CL money will probably balance them out financially.

It only takes a bit of logical, critical thinking: 3 years of CL/EL money, numerous 10 million pound sales (no laughing) and the SPL tv revenue all to themselves and they still manage to finish the last 2 season 5 million in the hole. Boils my piss reading people trying to tell me that this "windfall" is somehow a nail in our coffin.

[Skyson1872 2,923]

There clearly has been a lot of investment, when you factor in all the different members of staff, player fees and wages, structural upgrades, paying back loans etc the board have easily put in £10-15m. If anyone thought they were going to get £30m spent straightaway and mostly put on players then they are fucking stupid. 

To say Warburton hasn't bought us a sufficient team is ridiculous as well. Just because we haven't won all of ours games so far doesn't mean the team isn't good enough. Any team would struggle to adapt to a new league whilst integrating 11 new players, and if everyone was realistic they would know it was always going to be a struggle the first season back.

I think the number of people who have turned their back on Warburton is fucking shocking, aye some of his team selections have been poor but jesus fuck that doesn't merit the retaliation he has got. 

[Big Al 55 9,311]

18 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

It's amazing how unambiguous football appears to be at times, whereas the reality says something far different; as you rightly point out,

The reality to me is that unless we improve dramatically and fast, we will struggle badly. That can be argued against with as many ifs and buts as people like...but that's my reality based on fact: the opening 4 games from this season and the last 8 or so from last year.

The team will take time to gel I fully appreciate that...perhaps someone can answer me why Barton and Rossitter are being played in the same team...why MOH hasn't been started when he quite clearly deserves to be, our pedestrian pace is making it easy for our opposition...why we no longer press high up the pitch and in packs...why we suddenly think pinging 50 yard diagonals fits with our passing mantra...and I could go on.

The warning signs are there. MW wants the fans to leave entertained...how many have left entertained in any of the last 12 games or so?

[eejay the dj 31,964]

43 minutes ago, borderbear said:

2005 Helicopter Sunday they were 5 points clear with 4 games to go.

2008-2009 season we trailed Celtic by 7 points in January, we won the league on the last game of the season vs. Dundee U.

2009-2010 season we started with 3 wins then 3 draws, beat Celtic, drew against St Johnstone, Hibs, got beat by the sheep but were 10 points clear by February and won the league at a canter.

3 examples of why any panic now is ridiculously premature. No Surrender.

 

Good post and you are 100% correct 

We had a defence then 

[sammy cox 664]

1 minute ago, Big Al II said:

The reality to me is that unless we improve dramatically and fast, we will struggle badly. That can be argued against with as many ifs and buts as people like...but that's my reality based on fact: the opening 4 games from this season and the last 8 or so from last year.

The team will take time to gel I fully appreciate that...perhaps someone can answer me why Barton and Rossitter are being played in the same team...why MOH hasn't been started when he quite clearly deserves to be, our pedestrian pace is making it easy for our opposition...why we no longer press high up the pitch and in packs...why we suddenly think pinging 50 yard diagonals fits with our passing mantra...and I could go on.

The warning signs are there. MW wants the fans to leave entertained...how many have left entertained in any of the last 12 games or so?

I am as big a fan of MW and what he is trying to do as the next man.The trouble with the first few games of this season is not been a lack of investment but a lack of playing/knowing his best team.How much have Kilmarnock,Hamilton,Motherwell and Dundee spent on players.There is still an element who think that if things are not going great then the solution is spend and blame whoever if the money is not there.There are no guarantees in this game as we should all know regardless of what you spend.

[Siam69 27,328]

12 minutes ago, OhW said:

Again, just nonsense. Barely literate.

Should you not be over moaning on your own taig sites about all these huge players your team was meant to buy, than trying to troll over here. 

[Skyson1872 2,923]

1 minute ago, sammy cox said:

I am as big a fan of MW and what he is trying to do as the next man.The trouble with the first few games of this season is not been a lack of investment but a lack of playing/knowing his best team.How much have Kilmarnock,Hamilton,Motherwell and Dundee spent on players.There is still an element who think that if things are not going great then the solution is spend and blame whoever if the money is not there.There are no guarantees in this game as we should all know regardless of what you spend.

Not saying his team selection has been perfect, for example Miller starting ahead of MOH, but he has been limited in terms of midfield as we did have Holt, Windass and Crooks all injured 2 of which I think could walk into that midfield and not only that those 2 are exactly what is missing in the midfield. Defence wise he can't really make a good or bad team selection, as long as Tav and Wallace are picked. Attack wise Waghorn has been injured and we didn't have Garner for all of them. That means Senderos, Windass, Holt, Garner, Waghorn and Crooks were all missing, who are basically all automatic starters in their respected positions (crooks to a lesser extent)

[GWR1979 1,987]

Did we not just bring in about 12 players?

[scottyscott1963 18,642]

16 minutes ago, OhW said:

Again, just nonsense. Barely literate.

Being literate is a million miles from that tripe above declan.

[sammy cox 664]

1 minute ago, Skyson1872 said:

Not saying his team selection has been perfect, for example Miller starting ahead of MOH, but he has been limited in terms of midfield as we did have Holt, Windass and Crooks all injured 2 of which I think could walk into that midfield and not only that those 2 are exactly what is missing in the midfield. Defence wise he can't really make a good or bad team selection, as long as Tav and Wallace are picked. Attack wise Waghorn has been injured and we didn't have Garner for all of them. That means Senderos, Windass, Holt, Garner, Waghorn and Crooks were all missing, who are basically all automatic starters in their respected positions (crooks to a lesser extent)

Not disagreeing with you sir but we should still of had enough in the tank to beat Kilmarnock last  Friday.Anyone who was at the match could see in the first half we were all over the place.Not just the defense but everyone.Yes we have players to come back but guys like Crooks,Garner,Senderos have hardly if at all contributed and Holt and Windass haven't played a great deal.Choices yes but MW has to start making the right choices we cant play everyone so some and hopefully the right players play and the others don't.Last season his choices were limited this season he has more but he has to start being ruthless and drop those needing dropped.

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,689]

No durrender! 

[bluewhitevanman 1,619]

31 minutes ago, sammy cox said:

Your entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.If you don't like mine that's up to you but to say DK was appointed to the board by all his pals really.Do you think his pals will still be his pals if they see their investment going down the drain pronto.Every shareholder has a vote and I am pretty sure every shareholder is not one of DKs pals.If his pals think/thought that he wasn't the man for the job they wouldn't have welcomed him back pal or not.If his pals think he is making a rip roaring cunt of things I am pretty sure they will let DK know in no uncertain terms don't you.

No. I didn't give my ST money for me and my 2 boys to DK ,it firstly was to get in and see my team but secondly for investment however with the money he promised and he did promise a lot of money I would've thought our ST money wouldn't went on stadium improvement and some other things and his promised millions would've went on the playing side thus far it's really been neither but a few quid here and there and imo only its not good enough

[scottyscott1963 18,642]

2 minutes ago, OhW said:

Yawn.

Boring cunt

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

31 minutes ago, Getstiffed said:

The point I was making is that they won't (and I said for the whole summer they wouldn't and they didn't) spend even a third of it on transfers because they have a load of financial gaps to plug.

The CL money will probably balance them out financially.

It only takes a bit of logical, critical thinking: 3 years of CL/EL money, numerous 10 million pound sales (no laughing) and the SPL tv revenue all to themselves and they still manage to finish the last 2 season 5 million in the hole. Boils my piss reading people trying to tell me that this "windfall" is somehow a nail in our coffin.

You obviously don't get it. The nail in the coffin is not them. It will be our board if they do not have transparent, coherent strategies in place by which to mount an effective challenge to overtake them. We are cash strapped, with only our ST sales as the significant source of funding. It only takes a bit of logical critical thinking to work that out.

You are in serious denial if you think we are anywhere near them financially.

[Big Al 55 9,311]

17 minutes ago, sammy cox said:

I am as big a fan of MW and what he is trying to do as the next man.The trouble with the first few games of this season is not been a lack of investment but a lack of playing/knowing his best team.How much have Kilmarnock,Hamilton,Motherwell and Dundee spent on players.There is still an element who think that if things are not going great then the solution is spend and blame whoever if the money is not there.There are no guarantees in this game as we should all know regardless of what you spend.

I understand in the context of this thread what you're saying. I agree I don't blame lack of investment at all. 

I lay the blame fully at the feet of MW, the team selections have been poor, he has waited too long to make changes. The team don't play with any urgency until they're a goal down. They've stopped the high pressing, quick passing game that made them a joy to watch.

None of that is down to a lack of investment.

[The Dude 20,026]

4 minutes ago, bluewhitevanman said:

No. I didn't give my ST money for me and my 2 boys to DK ,it firstly was to get in and see my team but secondly for investment however with the money he promised and he did promise a lot of money I would've thought our ST money wouldn't went on stadium improvement and some other things and his promised millions would've went on the playing side thus far it's really been neither but a few quid here and there and imo only its not good enough

What do you think has funded the 11 new signings? Barton, Kranjcar, Senderos and Hill(and probably Gilks & Rossiter) are all earning at least the same as every single player who left at the end of last season. We've spent a couple million on players, re-signed several players to improved, extended contracts, began renovations on the stadium (inside and out).

Then you've got the operating loss the club has been making. Other than that though, it's a few quid here and there.

[Siam69 27,328]

32 minutes ago, sammy cox said:

I am as big a fan of MW and what he is trying to do as the next man.The trouble with the first few games of this season is not been a lack of investment but a lack of playing/knowing his best team.How much have Kilmarnock,Hamilton,Motherwell and Dundee spent on players.There is still an element who think that if things are not going great then the solution is spend and blame whoever if the money is not there.There are no guarantees in this game as we should all know regardless of what you spend.

Spot on

22 minutes ago, scottyscott1963 said:

Being literate is a million miles from that tripe above declan.

Must be painfull reading over there with no McCarthy etc 

10 minutes ago, Big Al II said:

I understand in the context of this thread what you're saying. I agree I don't blame lack of investment at all. 

I lay the blame fully at the feet of MW, the team selections have been poor, he has waited too long to make changes. The team don't play with any urgency until they're a goal down. They've stopped the high pressing, quick passing game that made them a joy to watch.

None of that is down to a lack of investment.

Yep, but no matter what the board do, some will always blame them due to who supports them anyway.

[Sam English Loyal 945]

League titles are not won or lost in September. 

Money has been spent on recruiting players.

We've not played well so far but we've not played that badly either.

King has, for all his faults, returned the club to something approaching normality. Four years on from us nearly not having a club to support! 

There are 12 teams in this division. Not 2. Penn State FC will struggle at some stage during the season. And Brenda will bottle it.

Ffs give yer head a shake op.

[bluewhitevanman 1,619]

28 minutes ago, The Dude said:

What do you think has funded the 11 new signings? Barton, Kranjcar, Senderos and Hill(and probably Gilks & Rossiter) are all earning at least the same as every single player who left at the end of last season. We've spent a couple million on players, re-signed several players to improved, extended contracts, began renovations on the stadium (inside and out).

Then you've got the operating loss the club has been making. Other than that though, it's a few quid here and there

ST sales a long way towards that and loans absolutely nothing else, the guy is at it and gets an easy ride by most. U can say what u want and back him to the hilt but the simple fact is he is conning his way through this and it's that simple. Had he came out and said something like we can't compete with Celtic just now as they have had a big head start financially but with us putting up with big ST sales and source investment then we can start to compete, we would all have fired our money in just the same but he is always going to be remembered that he promised millions. U can continue to be take. In with his lies but I won't. The stadium should be looked at but no he leaves it till the season starts and now not much can be done. I just won't trust a word he says and it's pointless arguing with me about him as at the end of every day he has lied to us to get into that position. 

[thehost 11,061]

27 minutes ago, Siam69 said:

Spot on

Must be painfull reading over there with no McCarthy etc 

Yep, but no matter what the board do, some will always blame them due to who supports them anyway.

I didn't blame the board I asked a list of questions. For all I know the execs may be going ballistic as warburton is refusing to buy decent starting Centre halfs. What I do know is our football has been shocking since the filth match, we have spent heehaw and we still have a bomb scare of a defence which 23 second hundred metre man boydy managed to scythe through.

Whether its one party or all of them collectively they have managed to assemble a team, that in my opinion, will be miles away at the end of the season.

Lets hope we win the league and you can print the op out, make a big hat out of it and I will march round ibrox with it on and acknowledge what a miserable and defeatist cunt I am.

 

Cant say fairer than that bud.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 hour ago, Big Al II said:

The reality to me is that unless we improve dramatically and fast, we will struggle badly. That can be argued against with as many ifs and buts as people like...but that's my reality based on fact: the opening 4 games from this season and the last 8 or so from last year.

The team will take time to gel I fully appreciate that...perhaps someone can answer me why Barton and Rossitter are being played in the same team...why MOH hasn't been started when he quite clearly deserves to be, our pedestrian pace is making it easy for our opposition...why we no longer press high up the pitch and in packs...why we suddenly think pinging 50 yard diagonals fits with our passing mantra...and I could go on.

The warning signs are there. MW wants the fans to leave entertained...how many have left entertained in any of the last 12 games or so?

I take your point about MOH, but I think Barton and Rossiter can play together, the problem is the third midfielder who plays alongside them; I personally think that is Forrester till Kranjcar gets to a consistent fitness level- I thought he looked much better against Kilmarnock, so it;s a start. I'm not convinced by Halliday right now, I was a fan of his last season, but I think he and McKay have to prove themselves all over again. That said, the team is finding its feet with some new players coming in, and others playing at a higher level than they did last season.

[Howsitgoing 4,281]

3 hours ago, OhW said:

What? Think I managed to decode this pigeon English.

"They're second in the league; the team is proficient enough to compete for the title"?

Name one league campaign when Rangers have been top of the league for the whole season? The team is definitely proficient enough to compete for the title. 

[Siam69 27,328]

24 minutes ago, thehost said:

I didn't blame the board I asked a list of questions. For all I know the execs may be going ballistic as warburton is refusing to buy decent starting Centre halfs. What I do know is our football has been shocking since the filth match, we have spent heehaw and we still have a bomb scare of a defence which 23 second hundred metre man boydy managed to scythe through.

Whether its one party or all of them collectively they have managed to assemble a team, that in my opinion, will be miles away at the end of the season.

Lets hope we win the league and you can print the op out, make a big hat out of it and I will march round ibrox with it on and acknowledge what a miserable and defeatist cunt I am.

 

Cant say fairer than that bud.

I genuinely wasn't meaning you, I suppose i should've said that in my post. 

As I've said earlier MW has to take his fair share of blame for our start, though it's early days, 11 new players, a step up from where we were, the way the taigs have responded, and I disagree with spending hee haw, as Sean Dyche has said, Joey doesn't come cheap, nevermind the other wage bills for better players, and a 7 figure transfer fee for one.

I of course want us to win the league, I still think we can, but the realist in me also knows it was always going to be a very, very big ask this season, nerermind the way the taigs have responded.

Stick on a bit of 'War on the Terraces' by the Cockney Rejects this weekend when you're pished, to get you in the mood for the piggery