Holt Waghorn and McKay

[JCDBigBear 10,830]

10 hours ago, Bluepeter9 said:

And yet that arrogance denies the reality that ICT are a form team and difficult to beat at home / it's the type of homily that Says we should win cause we is Rangers - ye ken we have a big budget like  !!!  

Nothing to do with arrogance although you are correct about a bigger budget.    As a team with supposedly better players than the other SPFL clubs we should be playing better football and getting better results.   If Friday's performance was only a one-off then I would not be so critical but we have not played well for months.   

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

1 minute ago, JCDBigBear said:

Nothing to do with arrogance although you are correct about a bigger budget.    As a team with supposedly better players than the other SPFL clubs we should be playing better football and getting better results.   If Friday's performance was only a one-off then I would not be so critical but we have not played well for months.   

I'm utterly perplexed at the negativity of Friday nights performance. I thought we were very good in the first half. Niko and halliday were running the show. Some bad finishes and final balls plus the their goalie making a wonder save or we would have been out of sight. 

Are we good enough to mount a challenge yet? No, but, we definitely are improving. 

[Billy1984 6,314]

10 hours ago, THE_MIGHTY_BEARS said:

Holt's made a big difference to this team since he's came back.  Not sure why he's getting the criticism when there's other players in the team far more deserving of it.

Totally agree with this. His energy in there has made a huge difference to us since his return imo

[He's blue he's white 717]

Is it coincidental that Holts return has been at the same time of our overall play improving? 

Holt is a very intelligent player, can pass, score and tackle.  His runs off the ball and ability to find space is his biggest attribute - he fits our style of play perfectly.  

[Liam_RFC 238]

We have started playing a lot better since holts came back into the team but McKay and waghorn have been terrible his season 

[AlCapone 7,678]

Our place is as champions of Scotland and competing in the CL, I doubt any of our squad are good enough to get us there. 

[Getstiffed 8,863]

1 hour ago, Deanzmeanzheinz said:

I'm utterly perplexed at the negativity of Friday nights performance. I thought we were very good in the first half. Niko and halliday were running the show. Some bad finishes and final balls plus the their goalie making a wonder save or we would have been out of sight. 

Are we good enough to mount a challenge yet? No, but, we definitely are improving. 

Second half was horrendus but the game should have been over by half time.

[Truth_is_out_there 197]

18 hours ago, cumnockbear said:

Waghorn was rotten last night and has been for weeks, i'd actually have Windass in his place he offers far more.

McKay same as Waghorn rotten, there's a player there somewhere but where the fuck is he ? O'Halloran should get a run of games in his position he offers more than McKay IMO.

Holt, a cracking wee players with bags of energy and drive, his link up play is generally good, loves a tackle, misplaces a few passes but who doesn't, don't see why people are so critical of him, we've missed his presence in the team and now he's back people moaning like fuck for the least wee thing.

Very good post...although I don't think Warburton likes pushing Windass so far up the park into Waghorn's position from kick off. Spot on about Holt though. I said in an earlier post his ability to get all around the park to try win the ball back and harass the opposition is terrific. If he could just improve his passing at times, he would be even better for us.

[cumnockbear 2,446]

3 minutes ago, Truth_is_out_there said:

Very good post...although I don't think Warburton likes pushing Windass so far up the park into Waghorn's position from kick off. Spot on about Holt though. I said in an earlier post his ability to get all around the park to try win the ball back and harass the opposition is terrific. If he could just improve his passing at times, he would be even better for us.

Windass isn't a midfielder though that's what annoys me, he's a secondary striker in a 4-4-1-1 at Accrington or a front 3 player in our case and is far more effective than Waghorn IMO in that position.

[Truth_is_out_there 197]

2 minutes ago, cumnockbear said:

Windass isn't a midfielder though that's what annoys me, he's a secondary striker in a 4-4-1-1 at Accrington or a front 3 player in our case and is far more effective than Waghorn IMO in that position.

Exactly. And when we play 'them' in the semis we are gong to have lots of space to exploit on the break. We need real pace in that position - something Waghorn does not have. I like him through the middle though, but you're right, he's not having a great season stuck out on the right!

[cumnockbear 2,446]

13 minutes ago, Truth_is_out_there said:

Exactly. And when we play 'them' in the semis we are gong to have lots of space to exploit on the break. We need real pace in that position - something Waghorn does not have. I like him through the middle though, but you're right, he's not having a great season stuck out on the right!

 

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

2 hours ago, JCDBigBear said:

Nothing to do with arrogance although you are correct about a bigger budget.    As a team with supposedly better players than the other SPFL clubs we should be playing better football and getting better results.   If Friday's performance was only a one-off then I would not be so critical but we have not played well for months.   

But good teams are not built instantly no matter what the budget - there is always a learning and building process - add in that even good teams can have bad spells then I believe we should be more supportive than we are. The only real criticism of Friday can be that we could have scored more - we dominated possession, kept a clean sheet and scored a great goal. We won a game at a difficult ground against a team in form. Our budget, and the quality that brings, will mean that over the period of a season we will ( imho) be well placed in the league and looking to push on again next season. We all have high standards and expectations but that has to be earnt and not simply bought and requires some patience at times. 

[A.T.G 10,773]

If we had that extra quality of the killer pass and runs together with a real good front 2, we'd be up there challenging the now

This costs money King

[cushynumber 25,178]

I like Holt - he adds dynamism and energy. I dont know why Waghorn and mackay are starting games at the moment though- they have been woeful all season. Dodoo beat more men in his small cameo than Mackay done all day and the fact that Miller looks a better scoring prospect than Waghorn says it all.

 

 

[1690tamRFC 5,001]

On 15 October 2016 at 9:16 AM, Bluepeter9 said:

What shite - McKay our best prospect, waghorn our top goal scored and holt whose drive we sorely missed when he was out. And you want to drop them - call them passengers  Oh dear!

Out of curiosity, do you actually believe Barrie McKay has been playing well lately and had a good game Friday night ? 

I totally agree with you that he is our best prospect, but that doesn't mean we should be completely blinkered when his form dips. 

[Loyal Bear 72 363]

On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Bluepeter9 said:

What shite - McKay our best prospect, waghorn our top goal scored and holt whose drive we sorely missed when he was out. And you want to drop them - call them passengers  Oh dear!

Best prospect or not, McKay has not played well this season. He should have been dropped several games ago. The manager has built a squad and we need to use it. He needs to change or rotate at the right times. I think that not dropping McKay and not bringing MOH into the starting XI are the wrong decisions.

[BlueSuedeSambas 53,840]

McKay has been dreadful this season.

[plumbGER 24,518]

3 hours ago, He's blue he's white said:

Is it coincidental that Holts return has been at the same time of our overall play improving? 

Holt is a very intelligent player, can pass, score and tackle.  His runs off the ball and ability to find space is his biggest attribute - he fits our style of play perfectly.  

This?

I didn't think Holt was having a good game the other night until i noticed how much running he does off the ball, no coincidence that big Niko had more of the ball aswell with Holt dragging players away.

Still miles away from what i hoped we would be this season but as the chemistry in the team grows and we get a near settled 11 then we will continue to improve.

My worry is Waggy, the efforts there but the confidence and ability are lacking just now.

[K.A.I 36,183]

For me Holt (likewise Halliday) is a very average footballer. He's OK but average. I've always said it.

However, until we actually identify and/or splash the cash for a Steve Davis type midfielder (someone with an engine, skillfull, can run with the ball and pick a pass) then our midfield probably has the best shape & balance it can with Holt and Halliday. Again, that's not me saying they're great but they are the best pick of what we've got to retain a decent shape in midfield (with Windass added into the mix IMO too)

Waghorn - I like him. He's a neat finisher but there's a line of thought that he can't finish the way he does against so-called bigger/better teams. I think he will find his feet. I do like him but he needs to be a lot more consistant at the top level. I'm willing to support him and give him more time. He deserves it.

McKay - waste of space. Living off that goal against the Fenians. Can't beat a man or make something happen. A half decent defender can read him like a book. A Warburton favourite, if it wasn't for that he'd be back playing for Raith Rovers or something.

 

[MayboleLoyal_atb 3,710]

Bit harsh on Holt IMO. Would drop waghorn and Mckay though.

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 hour ago, 1690tamRFC said:

Out of curiosity, do you actually believe Barrie McKay has been playing well lately and had a good game Friday night ? 

I totally agree with you that he is our best prospect, but that doesn't mean we should be completely blinkered when his form dips. 

He had been playing well enough to keep his place - he hasn't stood out - but who has.

I disagree with folk that say he hides to me  he is always looking for the ball and do something with it. A young man learning his trade!

[Bluepeter9 5,167]

1 hour ago, Loyal Bear 72 said:

Best prospect or not, McKay has not played well this season. He should have been dropped several games ago. The manager has built a squad and we need to use it. He needs to change or rotate at the right times. I think that not dropping McKay and not bringing MOH into the starting XI are the wrong decisions.

We are all entitled to opinions - I just don't agree with your assessment. 

[Loyal Bear 72 363]

45 minutes ago, Bluepeter9 said:

We are all entitled to opinions - I just don't agree with your assessment. 

McKay was excellent last season. This season he has not played well. Do you honestly think he has been playing well?

[Deanzmeanzheinz 4,312]

See all this MOH talk I wish to fuck MW would give him a run of 4-5 games just to convince some on here that he's bang average. I don't get the mystique he has for some on here. He's not that good a player.

[MasterD 7,435]

7 minutes ago, Deanzmeanzheinz said:

See all this MOH talk I wish to fuck MW would give him a run of 4-5 games just to convince some on here that he's bang average. I don't get the mystique he has for some on here. He's not that good a player.

The current players that are playing every week are bang average/not that good players too.

He's not going to single handedly suddenly turn us into a great team but he deserves a run of games more than the rest who have already had a run and failed to perform.

Waghorn will be back in the team despite his horror show performances. If Forrester/MOH put in that shift they'd be dropped for weeks. Why bother having a squad and telling everyone the players need to be able to see a path to the team yet some are undroppable and others never get a proper chance.