What exactly are we "building"

[Turnberry18 3,204]

I use it quite a lot and it's obvious that there are fundamentals to being a good football club being put in place. We are building a scouting network, a youth system, we are putting principles in place regarding the type of football we want to play etc. Many issues regarding diet and personal fitness have been applied that means the players have fitness requirements etc. Off the field there are certain things being addressed I believe. Our training methods etc are done with a great deal of professionalism. We are not the only club in existence that have gone down this route and not saw immediate success, but many of those clubs who stuck with it eventually got success. All of these things take time.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, cushynumber said:

I dont agree with your point re the building for the future and laying down foundation. He is trying to get the youth system right, he is trying to get the scouting right - none of that is myth and we will need that in future.

In terms of playing football the right way -  well of course we would all like to see the way we played last year mirrored in our performances in the SPFL - but thats not going to happen due to the better quality of opposition we face. The issue with MW is that despite our players not being able to play that way against these teams he wont change it and frankly his signings this season have been a disaster.

I am as unhappy as the next guy - but to try and simply shoot down everything the guy is trying to accomplish - not just on the park  - doesnt wash with me.

It's a myth that he's getting it right, though. Trying and successfully doing it are two totally different things.

What have you seen that makes you think that he's at least got that right?

Scouting? don't make me laugh. We got told we've got the "best in the business" in McParland when he seems like nothing more than a little man that enjoys watching games of football in the English lower leagues. That's it. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

I use it quite a lot and it's obvious that there are fundamentals to being a good football club being put in place. We are building a scouting network, a youth system, we are putting principles in place regarding the type of football we want to play etc. Many issues regarding diet and personal fitness have been applied that means the players have fitness requirements etc. Off the field there are certain things being addressed I believe. Our training methods etc are done with a great deal of professionalism. We are not the only club in existence that have gone down this route and not saw immediate success, but many of those clubs who stuck with it eventually got success. All of these things take time.

Many good soundbytes in that about scouting, youth systems and fundamentals - but be honest - none of it is close to being perfected. 

I honestly don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Seriously. 

[Prso's headband 35,570]

You's will all know I've backed the manager to extreme lengths and defended him when things were going wrong but even I've lost a bit of faith. Not to the extent screaming like fuck hes a wanker and a cunt etc that is below the belt IMO. But quietly thinking about it if he  doesn't change the formation he has to go. His philosophy is clearly mirrored on Guardiolas way of playing football but even he had changed tactics twice this year to win games against Burnley and Barca. Conte knew his Italian style wasn't working and changed it, they haven't looked back since. 

We all want him to succeed so much but he won't if he continues on like this. He needs to harden up a bit. I've said it before but putting his arm round Tavernier after he sold the second like the first was absolutely embarrassing. Totally disgraceful attitude to do that and let him believe its ok to go 2-0 down. He needs to man up and tell the players what he thinks of them. We all know Barton is and was a dick but I don't think he was far off what many fans are saying now and Warburton didn't like it. 

He needs to play 4-3-1-2. We have an overloaded players who play their best football in the middle. If he has his heart set on playing triangles and pass and move then this is the only formation that works. 

Fod 

Tav Wilson Hill Wallace

Windass Rossiter Holt

Forrester

Garner Waghorn/Miller/Dodoo. Take your pick. Miller played his best football feeding off the other attacker. 

If he has his heart set on expansive football then he goes 4-4-2 

Same back 5 only the middle and front is

MOH Windass Rossiter Mckay

Garner Miller. 

He really needs to change it, I hope he does I want him to suceed so much but that will ultimately be his downfall and the sole reason he will never ever go far in football

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, K.A.I said:

It's a myth that he's getting it right, though. Trying and successfully doing it are two totally different things.

What have you seen that makes you think that he's at least got that right?

Scouting? don't make me laugh. We got told we've got the "best in the business" in McParland when he seems like nothing more than a little man that enjoys watching games of football in the English lower leagues. That's it. 

What have you seen at Auchenhowie that says "he" has got it wrong? You do understand that the fruit of those labours won't be overnight? 

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, K.A.I said:

It's a myth that he's getting it right, though. Trying and successfully doing it are two totally different things.

What have you seen that makes you think that he's at least got that right?

Scouting? don't make me laugh. We got told we've got the "best in the business" in McParland when he seems like nothing more than a little man that enjoys watching games of football in the English lower leagues. That's it. 

I think the operative word in my post is "trying" - I didn't say he had it right - i said he was trying. Youth systems and scouting networks are not going to happen overnight. You asked what are we building - and I highlighted 2 items he is building.

Your in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

By the way - i agreed with the rest of your initial post from about line 3 onward.

[Bluenose1986 703]

25 minutes ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

A perfect platform to allow the tarriers an easy run at a treble this year and a more than realistic aim of getting another 9IAR never mind ten.

If I didn't say it no one else would,the past few years we've been ripping the pish out of them for failing to win trebles with no real competition. Then the year they're supposed to have a run for their money is probably the easiest opportunity they've ever had at getting one.

The great irony indeed and it's fucking soul destroying when that fact finally sets in.

This is my fear. We certainly look nowhere near stopping them and there's no light on the horizon. 

When we were winning 9 they had a board in charge who were sorting their problems and the cunts came close to stopping us. 

Also, no other team in the league is putting up a fight either. We at least had a challenge from the sheep and to a slightly lesser extent, Motherwell (correct me if I'm wrong). 

[cushynumber 25,178]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Many good soundbytes in that about scouting, youth systems and fundamentals - but be honest - none of it is close to being perfected. 

I honestly don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Seriously. 

who says its perfected? i dont think MW or MacParland would say that - its quite obviously a work in progress - thats what we are building. Is it actually built yet? of course it isn't

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

What have you seen at Auchenhowie that says "he" has got it wrong? You do understand that the fruit of those labours won't be overnight? 

I asked you first, you mentioned getting it right - I asked you based on what and you can't say - only a cliche about it not being able to be done overnight. 

But if you still want to ask me without answering then I'd say the proof is pretty much in the pudding. We have no youth's close to making a step up the first team, the youth results are as bad as the first team and the better youths are all out of loan at lower level teams and hardly setting the place alight.

I'd say that's conclusive. 

If you have some sort of burning optimism inside you that makes you think that it will all come good then fair enough. Your entitled. I just don't think you can say conclusively as if it's a matter of a fact that he's laying down the foundations on that front. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

15 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Many good soundbytes in that about scouting, youth systems and fundamentals - but be honest - none of it is close to being perfected. 

I honestly don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Seriously. 

Soundbites? Where is the soundbite? So we haven't recruited in coaching and scouting? Training methods are a shambles? Dietary and fitness is not important? The off the field stuff is just a gimmick? We knew what we were getting with Warburton, last year, and we should appreciate exactly what he inherited when we measure our criticism. And to say that nothing has improved, that he or this club does not have a vision is wrong.

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

I think the operative word in my post is "trying" - I didn't say he had it right - i said he was trying. Youth systems and scouting networks are not going to happen overnight. You asked what are we building - and I highlighted 2 items he is building.

Your in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

By the way - i agreed with the rest of your initial post from about line 3 onward.

I know what you meant - I know what we are trying to do but I also know what we are not doing. It's obvious. 

The question in my thread title I suppose is more rhetorical as I know deep down nothing worthwhile is getting built IMO.

[bornabear 6,208]

3 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

What have you seen at Auchenhowie that says "he" has got it wrong? You do understand that the fruit of those labours won't be overnight? 

I know what you're saying mate, unfortunately fruit doesn't have an extended life span and as soon as it goes stale, it's binned.

[sausagetrunks 6,037]

Hopefully a time machine. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, K.A.I said:

I asked you first, you mentioned getting it right - I asked you based on what and you can't say - only a cliche about it not being able to be done overnight. 

But if you still want to ask me without answering then I'd say the proof is pretty much in the pudding. We have no youth's close to making a step up the first team, the youth results are as bad as the first team and the better youths are all out of loan at lower level teams and hardly setting the place alight.

I'd say that's conclusive. 

If you have some sort of burning optimism inside you that makes you think that it will all come good then fair enough. Your entitled. I just don't think you can say conclusively as if it's a matter of a fact that he's laying down the foundations on that front. 

It's not a cliche at all. Do you realise what Warburton "inherited"? 

[pcbear 10,924]

Remember the Kenny McDowall semi v the tims, I thought at the that  was the worst capitulation ever, I think this team has it in them to do the same or god forbid even worse.

We are so far away from being a good team its frightening.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, bornabear said:

I know what you're saying mate, unfortunately fruit doesn't have an extended life span and as soon as it goes stale, it's binned.

Well, this fruit has a given lifespan that we haven't even began to see spring yet. You honestly say that the fruit of a youth and scouting network, set up only a year ago, would have a year's indicator of where it is producing or not?

[K.A.I 36,183]

5 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Soundbites? Where is the soundbite? So we haven't recruited in coaching and scouting? Training methods are a shambles? Dietary and fitness is not important? The off the field stuff is just a gimmick? We knew what we were getting with Warburton, last year, and we should appreciate exactly what he inherited when we measure our criticism. And to say that nothing has improved, that he our this club does not have a vision, is wrong.

We've recruited in coaching and scouting but not to the standard required. Going on that logic we've strengthened our playing squad too for no other reason than signing some players. It's about getting the right people in - we've not done that. 

Training methods do seem like a shambles - we have players getting injured at training, players coming back too soon from injury then out again, training ground bust ups, it's clear we don't work on set-pieces, defending or finishing - you name it. 

We didn't know what we were getting with Warburton - it's only now we are seeing how hopeless he is. That's more bullshit and basically the point I'm making about the kind of soundbites we're getting told that mean nothing. 

and why mention what he inherited? none of that matters it's what you do now that counts. You are being really dishonest with yourself IMO. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

It's not a cliche at all. Do you realise what Warburton "inherited"? 

That's exactly the type of nonsense I'm talking about. 

Justifying/excusing the piss-poor job he's doing by referring back to how bad things were before.

You can't progress doing that. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

12 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Many good soundbytes in that about scouting, youth systems and fundamentals - but be honest - none of it is close to being perfected. 

I honestly don't know how anyone can say otherwise. Seriously. 

We recruited a guy who is highly rated as a youth coach. Are you denying that? Are you denying he and Warburton have a vision to take the club to the place where the youth will eventually grow into the first team? 

[cushynumber 25,178]

7 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I know what you meant - I know what we are trying to do but I also know what we are not doing. It's obvious. 

The question in my thread title I suppose is more rhetorical as I know deep down nothing worthwhile is getting built IMO.

I dont agree with that. MW might not reap the benefits of it - but i think he is definitely putting foundations in place for the club.

 

I actually think this might be MW's forte rather than team management.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

We recruited a guy who is highly rated as a youth coach. Are you denying that? Are you denying he and Warburton have a vision to take the club to the place where the youth will eventually grow into the first team? 

Rated highly by who? because we get fed all this shite about him being the best in the business by Warburton it makes it true? that man talks more shite than anyone else I can think of.

Having McParland scout players in the lower leagues of England is not a scouting network. That's one of the key area's we've failed on - I don't know how anyone can try and say we are doing good work there. 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, K.A.I said:

Rated highly by who? because we get fed all this shite about him being the best in the business by Warburton it makes it true? that man talks more shite than anyone else I can think of.

Having McParland scout players in the lower leagues of England is not a scouting network. That's one of the key area's we've failed on - I don't know how anyone can try and say we are doing good work there. 

Murty is not rated highly? Anyone who isn't rated highly would not be anywhere near the Southampton coaching set up.

[cushynumber 25,178]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Rated highly by who? because we get fed all this shite about him being the best in the business by Warburton it makes it true? that man talks more shite than anyone else I can think of.

Having McParland scout players in the lower leagues of England is not a scouting network. That's one of the key area's we've failed on - I don't know how anyone can try and say we are doing good work there. 

How can you possibly say we have failed with the scouting? Macparland is in the door one year  fuck sake mate calm doon.

 

[Essandoh 21,224]

For argument's sake, we'll struggle to find another manager that will be able to change our youth system in the same manner that Warburton can. If someone comes in and undoes all of his work in that respect then I'll find that very damaging for Rangers. I'm not saying keep him for the sake of this because I think his time is sadly up, but let's not kid ourselves and act like we know better simply because of meaningless results in a failed youth league.

This is the guy who founded the NextGen series before UEFA saw £££s in it and tore it down to use as their own. After Smith, we all cried out for a 'one-size fits all' ethos from the senior team down to the U10s.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said:

Murty is not rated highly? Anyone who isn't rated highly would not be anywhere near the Southampton coaching set up.

I was talking about McParland ... but I never heard of Murty being highly rated or not tbh. Jury is still out on him.