What exactly are we "building"

[cushynumber 25,178]

29 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I mentioned this in my OP ... exactly what I was talking about with the every negative that can be found patter. It's realism. There's some people, including yourself that needs a massive dose of it.

There's nothing good happening at the club right now no matter how much you want to optimistically assume there is. No offence but the fact you and Turnberry point to the youths and scouting in an attempt to try and say there's something happening that's right is laughable as they are two major area's that looks to be failing us. 

Each to their own, though. I just think you's are mental if you think we are on the right track there. 

 

are you for real?

I think MW is dying on his arse, but to suggest everything he has done over the last 18 months has fail is ridiculous. You asked what we are trying to build - well he is absolutely struggling in building a first team - no argument their - and that is his number 1 priority and your right - nothing good is happening their.

But you were also talking about foundations - what is a club without a scouting network or a youth development programme? I picked that as a foundation to build on. To suggest at this stage that has failed as well is ridiculous. Did I suggest its "right" as you say? no check my posts - i said "he was trying to"....and i said it takes time.

The scouting network and the youth development system might well fail (and woe betide this club if they do) - but they havent failed yet - which is what you are saying  - and i cant see where you get that from

I am being neither optimistic or pessimistic, I am just stating things as I see them.

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, cushynumber said:

are you for real?

I think MW is dying on his arse, but to suggest everything he has done over the last 18 months has fail is ridiculous. You asked what we are trying to build - well he is absolutely struggling in building a first team - no argument their - and that is his number 1 priority and your right - nothing good is happening their.

But you were also talking about foundations - what is a club without a scouting network or a youth development programme? I picked that as a foundation to build on. To suggest at this stage that has failed as well is ridiculous. Did I suggest its "right" as you say? no check my posts - i said "he was trying to"....and i said it takes time.

The scouting network and the youth development system might well fail (and woe betide this club if they do) - but they havent failed yet - which is what you are saying  - and i cant see where you get that from

I am being neither optimistic or pessimistic, I am just stating things as I see them.

 

Yes I'm for real and I'm just calling things like I see it too 

[cushynumber 25,178]

4 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Nobody has mentioned winning the league, we won't even finish second and have a battle on our hands to get third. 

Warburton appears to have put good people in place at Auchenhowie for that I thank him, but Auchenhowie can be run by those people we need a first team coach to get the first team playing well. 

The fact Auchenhowie appears to be working now maybe gives you a hint at what level Warburton should be employed. 

Im also tired of hearing look where we were before, that's gone it's in the past he has his own players in that squad it's his squad and it's failing badly and has been for almost a year, we aren't moving forward we are going backwards and will continue to do so until we get a proper first team coach in place. 

Nobody is disagreeing with the first team element. I am saying that just because its going badly their it doesn't necessarily mean everything else is a dud.

[writingranger 1,423]

1 hour ago, Bluenose1986 said:

This is my fear. We certainly look nowhere near stopping them and there's no light on the horizon. 

When we were winning 9 they had a board in charge who were sorting their problems and the cunts came close to stopping us. 

Also, no other team in the league is putting up a fight either. We at least had a challenge from the sheep and to a slightly lesser extent, Motherwell (correct me if I'm wrong). 

they also came 4th one year

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,512]

Things are looking grim. I think the sheep are in with a good chance of beating us on Saturday as we are disjointed and the players seem to have developed a shooting phobia.

If Aberdeen win and Hearts after them (likely at the moment) then the vast majority of our support will turn against MW.

I think the board have promised him a season to get is onto Europe. A few losses and other results going against us will make that increasingly unlikely.

If MW doesn't turn things around and have us back in second place by January I'd sack him. 

 

 

[Turnberry18 3,204]

13 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Nobody has mentioned winning the league, we won't even finish second and have a battle on our hands to get third. 

Warburton appears to have put good people in place at Auchenhowie for that I thank him, but Auchenhowie can be run by those people we need a first team coach to get the first team playing well. 

The fact Auchenhowie appears to be working now maybe gives you a hint at what level Warburton should be employed. 

Im also tired of hearing look where we were before, that's gone it's in the past he has his own players in that squad it's his squad and it's failing badly and has been for almost a year, we aren't moving forward we are going backwards and will continue to do so until we get a proper first team coach in place. 

It's in the past in one sense, but the players recruited we recruited in that situation. My argument in regards to the first team is that the majority of them are not good enough; I think they struggled at times in the Championship. I detect that that many of them find it too hard to play for a club like ours, where every game is a cup tie for our opponents, and they can't handle that, it would appear. We have the same nucleus of the squad from last season; joined this season, at this moment in time, by mainly young players who have yet to find their feet at the club. In that sense, and I don't want to be contentious too much with your points, we can't say the past is gone. Warburton has a task to build a team for the future; we either back him or we don't, If the club or the fans don't support his efforts, and we are just going to look purely at the first team then it's possibly best he doesn't stay here very long. 

[jim beam 2,188]

18 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

It's obvious I am going to come in for that kind of criticism, I'm willing to accept that. I think it's unfair on what I'm saying though.

No mate you are certainly entitled to your opinion it's just that I am really struggling to understand the stance you have on MW after witnessing the same disaster that we all have.

[Coop 654]

The building needed to be started by those at the top of the club, King and his crew, but it seems the best they can do is temporarily plug the holes in the dyke.  King never had the finacial wherewithal to back up the claims he was making as he tried to wrestle control and the impression I get is he's hoping on a good European run to stabilise the finances but that's one helluva gamble.

On the footballing side, if it had been done right from the beginning we'd have a solid foundation to build on.  A foundation of good Scottish players who wouldn't cost a fortune.  What the fuck we were playing at buying Garner, Barton and Kranjcar I don't know.  It's not as if we're rolling in money.  I fear the weak boardroom and botched 4 years under McCoist and then Warburton will leave us off the pace for more years than otherwise would have been the case had we done what Hearts did.  They appear to have sat down, made realistic, affordable plans on and off the pitch and stuck to them.

[writingranger 1,423]

last night was a truly awful display. I think Warburton's philosophy is excellent and is about the whole club. However, this year's recruitment doesn't fit it. The forwards he's bought suit being in pairs. And the others haven't any kind of form. The team doesn't seem to know how to respond when they are bullied. Losing isn't great, but losing without competing is shameful. Warburton needs to meld his philosophy with the players he has and find someone in the middle of the park who can take control.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

14 minutes ago, jim beam said:

No mate you are certainly entitled to your opinion it's just that I am really struggling to understand the stance you have on MW after witnessing the same disaster that we all have.

My point is that it;s players. I was watching something recently from way back where Bobby Robson's Ipswich team had just lost the league to Liverpool, and he said the reason was very simple, the team with the best players wins the league. Systems and formations are a red herring, because basically we don't have the players, and the manager is attempting to put principles- which is what this particular thread is about- that will put that in place. If he was signing on a competitive level with the current leaders then my argument would be stupid; my argument might still be stupid, but it is based on the fact that right now we do not have the players for what the fans are demanding. I don't think in the short term any manager can do anything about that in our current situation.

[jackrfc95 4,255]

10 minutes ago, Essandoh said:

As someone said earlier, it's stupid to throw the baby out with the bath water. If Warburton goes then that's life, but anyone who advocates the dismantling of the infrastructures he's erected at Auchenhowie and Ibrox are doing more damage than good for this football club.

Insert greeting faced clueless response here about the youth team records in a failed youth league that means nothing, how McParland's life work is suddenly moot, and how Warburton isn't qualified for youth development.

Here it is nice and clear for those that don't care to read: Warburton's time might be up; but the infrastructure he erected must be protected. Or should we just bring in Billy fucking Davies to bulldoze it all because it makes people feel nicer that nothing of Warburton's would exist?

This is the key point with some of the names being branded about. It's all very well bringing in a new manager who will get a few good results but if that's all he's interested in then IMO it won't work long term. Especially as we clearly do not have money men behind us who are going to bankroll the team for the foreseeable future. At least MW seems to care about the general state of the club as a whole in the longer term.

Perfect example was last night on the premier league show. Sean Dyche was ridiculed 2 seasons ago for not investing enough in the first team squad at Burnley, but he felt they needed their own training centre in order to maintain their status as a premier league club. This season they have a half decent chance of survival and will have a brand new state of the art training facility.

That was just an example before anyone says we are biggger than Burnley etc I know we are and I know the demands at Rangers are a lot higher than Burnley as we expect winning every week along with regular silverware, no matter what state we are in but the principle remains the same. I think MW is trying to build a club with good foundations from top to bottom but unfortunately to be able to do that results have to come first, especially at our club.

[William McBeath 2,154]

21 minutes ago, Essandoh said:

As someone said earlier, it's stupid to throw the baby out with the bath water. If Warburton goes then that's life, but anyone who advocates the dismantling of the infrastructures he's erected at Auchenhowie and Ibrox are doing more damage than good for this football club.

Insert greeting faced clueless response here about the youth team records in a failed youth league that means nothing, how McParland's life work is suddenly moot, and how Warburton isn't qualified for youth development.

Here it is nice and clear for those that don't care to read: Warburton's time might be up; but the infrastructure he erected must be protected. Or should we just bring in Billy fucking Davies to bulldoze it all because it makes people feel nicer that nothing of Warburton's would exist?

I agree but was actually thinking about Davies until the end of the season because he knows how to put out a team that will fight like fuck and that is one of the things we lack most. We have no fight in us. I think playing so open is draining the heart out of the players right enough because it just makes it so easy to play through us. Barton, Niko, and the injured would have helped so its hard lines on the manager.

I'm for giving him a chance to get some new players in if he changes the 433 and high line but doubt he will. It just leaves too exposed with this squad of players. Shame he won't just do what needs to be done and stiffen up the midfield and go more direct with two up front as it would no doubt save his job. The Sheep and Tarts are not even very good sides so he seems to be his own worst enemy right now.

Daft Davies would sort this mess pretty quickly. That's what's even more depressing. Wish he would just take it on the chin and take a step back to go forward later as even this lot in a compact formation would likely win the majority of these important games. Let the defenders defend deeper, crowd the midfield more, two up front, more direct and aggressive. Most of our problems in relation to these teams would be sorted. That's how simple it could be. In my opinion of course but just seems like common sense.

[tannerall 25,935]

Mr King has a dream.

If we build it, people will come. They'll come to Ibrox for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up on your Edmiston Driveway, not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. "Of course, we won't mind if you have a look around," he'll say. "It's only fifty quid per person." They'll pass over the money without even thinking about it; for it is money they have and peace they lack...........

 

 

 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,613]

Member the third division? 

Ooh I member. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

36 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

Nobody is disagreeing with the first team element. I am saying that just because its going badly their it doesn't necessarily mean everything else is a dud.

KAI just sounds frustrated and I can't blame him, you also have to question whatever happened to Warburtons mantra of young and hungry and why we haven't seen more 18/20 year olds in the squad. 

As I said Auchenhowie appears to be on the right track but only 3/4 years down the line will we know for sure. 

Im also a little worried that we don't seem to have more contacts out in Europe. 

[BLUEDIGNITY 33,658]

Castles in the sky ! 

[danger ranger 922]

How come the most successful teams buy most of their players in order to win, even Barcelona have spent a fortune and they are credited with one of the best youth academies.

History has shown that certain teams have a successful youth program for a period of time, then other teams copy it but don't really get the same success, in the 1960's Burnley were the trend setters and now in the uk we have Southampton and recently Barcelona. I don't see Southampton dominating the league, although they have a good side and have made money, but they also have bought players for big fees to achieve their success.

It is good to have a productive youth system, but it has to be separate from the business of running the first team, we could go 3,4,5 years down the line and might only get 1 or 2 players as I haven't seen teams with a conveyor belt of youth, perhaps Dundee Utd were Scotlands best team for youth and at best has just kept them alive with a few million here and there.

Build a good youth system by all means, but Warburton's job is to produce a winning side and at the moment he is doing a miserable job and I don't think the youth system will help him for years, as for the coaching overhaul that is definitely not working, going on the first hand evidence of the performances in every department of the first team.

[MasterD 7,436]

It would be good to know how much of what goes on at youth level is down to MW.

IMO it's wrong to have a first team manager also trying to sort out a full youth system and infrastructure. Managers don't tend to last too long whereas youth couches, academy director or whatever have a longer shelf life at clubs.

Ask him questions, get opinions on whatever but actually having him sort it all out isn't right.

That's not anything against him, but an error by whoever makes these decisions for the club.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

12 hours ago, cushynumber said:

are you for real?

I think MW is dying on his arse, but to suggest everything he has done over the last 18 months has fail is ridiculous. You asked what we are trying to build - well he is absolutely struggling in building a first team - no argument their - and that is his number 1 priority and your right - nothing good is happening their.

But you were also talking about foundations - what is a club without a scouting network or a youth development programme? I picked that as a foundation to build on. To suggest at this stage that has failed as well is ridiculous. Did I suggest its "right" as you say? no check my posts - i said "he was trying to"....and i said it takes time.

The scouting network and the youth development system might well fail (and woe betide this club if they do) - but they havent failed yet - which is what you are saying  - and i cant see where you get that from

I am being neither optimistic or pessimistic, I am just stating things as I see them.

 

A greenhorn manager from the lower echelons of English football who has achieved very little, never played at the highest level, who doesn't do learning, has a closed mind, has the youth playing the same failed system as the first team, it doesn't give it much hope of success now does it? If he is so good at youth development then WTF is he doing here managing a first team where he is obviously way out of his depth? That's right, because we cannot afford anyone better. 

I think even my Mrs recognised a long time ago that the Scottish youth development was obviously lacking when watching dross in front of you.

A blueprint for success from such a character with a closed mind? Never in a million.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

12 hours ago, jackrfc95 said:

This is the key point with some of the names being branded about. It's all very well bringing in a new manager who will get a few good results but if that's all he's interested in then IMO it won't work long term. Especially as we clearly do not have money men behind us who are going to bankroll the team for the foreseeable future. At least MW seems to care about the general state of the club as a whole in the longer term.

Perfect example was last night on the premier league show. Sean Dyche was ridiculed 2 seasons ago for not investing enough in the first team squad at Burnley, but he felt they needed their own training centre in order to maintain their status as a premier league club. This season they have a half decent chance of survival and will have a brand new state of the art training facility.

That was just an example before anyone says we are biggger than Burnley etc I know we are and I know the demands at Rangers are a lot higher than Burnley as we expect winning every week along with regular silverware, no matter what state we are in but the principle remains the same. I think MW is trying to build a club with good foundations from top to bottom but unfortunately to be able to do that results have to come first, especially at our club.

The principle is well flawed when you have a failing first team and expect the youth system to pull through when it was the self same manager who built it ffs.

[.Williamson. 82,553]

Shite team, shite manager, shite board

[RFCJoshy1690 72]

If we're building anything it's getting Built wae lego and plasticine it's certainly no getting built wae a solid foundation and base