has a Rangers manager ever survived

[harlands plater 17,031]

11 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Who says? So, if Rangers get into Europe and have go at the league next season we won't doing that with Warburton in charge?

I cringe at the thought of a Warburton team taking on technically superior European opponents.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

13 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

 

How can you say that being nineteen points behind and only two in front of third place (of a team with a game in hand) makes us competitive?

I'm genuinely interested in your reasoning here...

We are competitive. We have had a bad start to the season, and we lost quite a few points in the period. Right now, we have got better, and become more competitive, with every team in this league.  My criticism of the team is that we are looking to be more than competitive. Warburton may or may not being implying that the team is not good enough when he says we will be highly competitive, and possibly most fans would agree with that. We need better players to be even more than that.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, harlands plater said:

I cringe at the thought of a Warburton team taking on technically superior European opponents.

This current side would struggle, but you are saying "a" Warburton side, which means you don't think it matters who he signs etc?

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,635]

On 01/01/2017 at 4:25 PM, Rfc52 said:

Finishing a season 19 points behind the taigs? We sat before the end of the year with them that far ahead.

Murray replaced eck with le guen and then Le guen with SWS. Eck was told he was leaving iirc in the November and obviously PLG was gone after motherwell away in the December. 

I think we can all argue about funds/lack off, but is warburton seen as a long term project and that finishing second was his main objective this season? However the going for 55 renewal slogans would lead me to believe that even if second was his main objective that it was to be a serious challenge. 

It's been quite weird as under Ally when we were honking there seemed to be thread after thread to have him punted. Yesterday was our 5th loss of the season and 4th in the league. Its not disastrous stats but the draws have really cost us. But in Scotland there are two teams and generally when one struggles the other just draws away. It usually doesn't end well for the manager. But there really doesn't seem to be any real desire by board or support to have him removed.

He really is a good guy and a good ambassador but he doesn't seem to be ruthless. The 3 games after hearts we were excellent and then that ICT game and second half against ST J was criminal. I thought after the 3games we won we'd turned a corner.

I'm honestly unsure of if he can or will take us forward but I don't know there's a kinda weirdness about this whole situation imo.

There just seems no real fuss about it. 

 

You should take a look at the MW poll mate. Plenty of fuss going on there.

[BridgeIsBlue 66,644]

The fact that he can't say who we're being competitive with says it all  

[RFC55 109,988]

Just now, Drunk and disorderly. said:

You should take a look at the MW poll mate. Plenty of fuss going on there.

aye I kinda mentioned on here. it was really about the press/ex players who usually come out and slate what's going on but it's pretty quiet on that front.

a few good arguments on both sides in both threads imo  

[smell the glove 55]

On 01/01/2017 at 4:33 PM, In Dungeons Deep said:

Le Guen would probably do really well nowadays as so many have bought into the whole nutritional and sports science aspect of football. 

Wonder why he is only 52 and been jobless for over a year then! 

Not many club owners think the same

[Drunk and disorderly. 14,635]

3 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

aye I kinda mentioned on here. it was really about the press/ex players who usually come out and slate what's going on but it's pretty quiet on that front.

a few good arguments on both sides in both threads imo  

Fair point. 

[Virtuoso 27,180]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

We are competitive. We have had a bad start to the season, and we lost quite a few points in the period. Right now, we have got better, and become more competitive. 

We're not competitive, we're struggling. The table is proof of this.

If we cement 2nd place by March or April, then it won't be down to any miraculous turnaround by us, it will be down to the failure on others to capitalise.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

Just now, Virtuoso said:

We're not competitive, we're struggling. The table is proof of this.

If we cement 2nd place by March or April, then it won't be down to any miraculous turnaround by us, it will be down to the failure on others to capitalise.

Struggling in second place, after coming up from promotion? Two defeats in the league since September does not suggest we are struggling. We are not a great team, we are not the best team, but neither are we struggling.

[JograBear 1,074]

Has the club ever been in such a poor financial position relative to its competition?

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, JograBear said:

Has the club ever been in such a poor financial position relative to its competition?

Yes - when we were 18 million in debt and the bank wouldn't let Walter strengthen 

the debt we have is owed to King co who want it in shares when the times right not hard cash and he's promised 30-50 million too 

so yeah 

[BridgeIsBlue 66,644]

19 (22) points behind them on the 2nd of January and we aren't struggling?

[Turnberry18 3,204]

4 minutes ago, Virtuoso said:

We're not competitive, we're struggling. The table is proof of this.

If we cement 2nd place by March or April, then it won't be down to any miraculous turnaround by us, it will be down to the failure on others to capitalise.

In a three month period, before the last match, we lost seven goals and one match. That is the backdrop to your assertion that we are struggling.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Yes - when we were 18 million in debt and the bank wouldn't let Walter strengthen 

the debt we have is owed to King co who want it in shares when the times right not hard cash and he's promised 30-50 million too 

so yeah 

But also we have full internationals in the team that Walter had at that time. Many more than we do now.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,242]

3 minutes ago, BridgeIsBlue said:

19 (22) points behind them on the 2nd of January and we aren't struggling?

We're struggling to get in front of the sheep, game hand, likely win and we go third.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Turnberry18 said:

But also we have full internationals in the team that Walter had at that time. Many more than we do now.

I know but I'm reading his post like we are financially crippled that's why we can't complete I don't completely buy that that's why I've not concerned myself with the "relative to competition" part of his post because it's too subjective 

for me we were under more financial restraint then as it lead to Whyte getting the club and we've not competed since so I standby my original comment 

[harlands plater 17,031]

19 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

This current side would struggle, but you are saying "a" Warburton side, which means you don't think it matters who he signs etc?

Well he didn't improve the team any in the January 2016 transfer window, or the summer 2016 window.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,242]

6 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

In a three month period, before the last match, we lost seven goals and one match. That is the backdrop to your assertion that we are struggling.

But we are struggling to score m8, don't score and we are struggling.

[.Williamson. 83,667]

7 minutes ago, Turnberry18 said:

Struggling in second place, after coming up from promotion? Two defeats in the league since September does not suggest we are struggling. We are not a great team, we are not the best team, but neither are we struggling.

We play in a league that is full of shite and we have the second biggest wage bill in it. Unless we are competing for the league title then we aren't competitive and we're struggling. 

This is Rangers, not Hearts, Aberdeen or some shitty no mark club like that. 

Essentially 22 points behind at the winter break. Embarrassing.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

I know but I'm reading his post like we are financially crippled that's why we can't complete I don't completely buy that that's why I've not concerned myself with the "relative to competition" part of his post because it's too subjective 

for me we were under more financial restraint then as it lead to Whyte getting the club and we've not competed since so I standby my original comment 

I think if the financial constraints we have affect the midfielders that the manager would like to make a serious effort to win the league then I think that comment stands. I take your point, but the the midfield requires investment. The type of signings we made for the midfield in the summer are not the kind we need; we need better quality in that part of our team in particular. There was a risk and return element to it that I don't think we can afford again.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Turnberry18 said:

I think if the financial constraints we have affect the midfielders that the manager would like to make a serious effort to win the league then I think that comment stands. I take your point, but the the midfield requires investment. The type of signings we made for the midfield in the summer are not the kind we need; we need better quality in that part of our team in particular. There was a risk and return element to it that I don't think we can afford again.

No disagreement regarding your points there about needing to invest in midfield and the risk and return element in providing the cash but the alternative is worse than the initial risk/reward ratio as it means ten in a row for them and us basically turning into a Hearts/Aberdeen over night 

is it only a bigger risk/reward element because it's Warburton? That's the big question for me....

[Turnberry18 3,204]

3 minutes ago, .Williamson. said:

We play in a league that is full of shite and we have the second biggest wage bill in it. Unless we are competing for the league title then we aren't competitive and we're struggling. 

This is Rangers, not Hearts, Aberdeen or some shitty no mark club like that. 

Essentially 22 points behind at the winter break. Embarrassing.

It's difficult to argue with your points, but personally I'm not sure it stands this season. People speak as if it is widely acknowledged that Warburton thinks this team is one he would have regardless. There are constraints on him, which I hope is in the context of our present situation. I agree with you that in a context that we are Rangers then we are struggling, if winning the league was the automatic objective; I'm just not convinced that we have prepared ourselves for that, and that it's unfair to lay all of that at the door of the manager.

[ritchieshearercaldow 22,242]

Warburton obviously took the job on the understanding that he would get us at least second place, pot luck in the cups, he was given a budget and accepted the task.

At present he's struggling to get second place, not finished yet but for now we struggle. That's how I see it.

Hopefully he'll be a hero come end of season.

[Turnberry18 3,204]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

No disagreement regarding your points there about needing to invest in midfield and the risk and return element in providing the cash but the alternative is worse than the initial risk/reward ratio as it means ten in a row for them and us basically turning into a Hearts/Aberdeen over night 

is it only a bigger risk/reward element because it's Warburton? That's the big question for me....

It's a good question, and last night I even implied that you may be right, and I may be wrong- my record of late when it comes to players etc suggests it more likely that you are right! I've had a turn in my thinking regarding the other points you have made. I thought we should be patient, go down the Auchenhowie route, and pick of a bargain. I don't think that now, and you clarify my own thoughts quite well about why I don't.