It is time the King was dethroned

[Albertz 78 918]

6 minutes ago, The Dude said:

How does a culture of failure maximise his investment?

Indeed this is a silly argument I've seen used many times on RM.

For King to sell his shares and make money on them then the club has to be successful not failing.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Albertz 78 said:

Indeed this is an silly argument I've seen used many times on RM.

For King to sell his shares and make money on them then the club has to be successful not failing.

Maybe @BlueAvenger will explain how he foresees it working.

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

No one has ever mismanaged a business which has then gone under? 

I'm pretty sure those owners didn't want to lose out either, but they perhaps didn't have the skills, contacts, or ability, or funds to be successful.

 

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Jack The Flipper said:

No one has ever mismanaged a business which has then gone under? 

I'm pretty sure those owners didn't want to lose out either, but they perhaps didn't have the skills, contacts, or ability to fund success.

 

That would be fine if that was what Blue Avenger was suggesting. It's not, he's claiming it's a deliberate strategy to 'maximise and protect' King's investment.

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

8 minutes ago, Albertz 78 said:

Indeed this is a silly argument I've seen used many times on RM.

For King to sell his shares and make money on them then the club has to be successful not failing.

Looking in the wrong place I'm afraid.

[gmcf 34,175]

It doesn't really mean it has to be DK or MW , imo both have to take their own responsibility . 

Im not sure DK ever had any intention of putting the 30M quoted into Rangers . Perhaps had he been a little bit more honest ( or transparent ) people would have given him a bit more leeway , but then again , maybe he wouldn't have got the support from the likes of certain fan groups without it . The bottom line is , in the two years since this board have come in we've spent , iirc , about 3-4M on players , and as has been previously mentioned , hardly enough to take on a team that can spend double that on one player . There's no point in getting the gig , then doing next to nothing to what we can see on the park . 

MW , too , has to take responsibility . It's alright saying we need a higher quality player , and as much as we could do with it , these current players should be performing better .  Dropped points against teams like Ross Co , Kilmarnock , Thistle , Hamilton etc , how many players have your average fan even heard of from these teams ? And yet we struggle with a far higher budget . Then you could delve into specifics . . . . tactics , defending set pieces , substitutions . It's not a pretty picture . I've actually stood by MW thinking it's going to click , but how long do you keep hoping ? I'm afraid Wednesday's game was a turning point for me and it's frustrating , because home games like the sheep and Hearts show , on our game , we're not far away but it's far too infrequent to say were progressing . 

Like I say , there's a few people that need to have a long hard look at themselves . 

[Albertz 78 918]

1 minute ago, Blue Avenger said:

Looking in the wrong place I'm afraid.

Again can you describe the scenario of how exactly King is going to line his own pockets other than selling shares in the future?

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

Just now, The Dude said:

That would be fine if that was what Blue Avenger was suggesting. It's not, he's claiming it's a deliberate strategy to 'maximise and protect' King's investment.

I can imagine King being thrifty in order to ensure he doesn't make a loss on the sale, I'm sure he knows some rangers fans are easily led and most of us are loyal so it's not that difficult getting bums on seats. If he can convince the fans he's progressing the club, when actually we're standing still or regressing - especially in areas that are less easy to see - then he's not had the need to invest more money in the club to sell it on for a profit.

You can make a house look nice with a lick of paint, sell it on for a profit and then run to the bank laughing as the new owners see the damp creep in and destroy their new paint.

It's not rocket science.

[The Dude 20,026]

7 minutes ago, Jack The Flipper said:

I can imagine King being thrifty in order to ensure he doesn't make a loss on the sale, I'm sure he knows some rangers fans are easily led and most of us are loyal so it's not that difficult getting bums on seats. If he can convince the fans he's progressing the club, when actually we're standing still or regressing - especially in areas that are less easy to see - then he's not had the need to invest more money in the club to sell it on for a profit.

You can make a house look nice with a lick of paint, sell it on for a profit and then run to the bank laughing as the new owners see the damp creep in and destroy their new paint.

It's not rocket science.

King's not majority shareholder. Convincing the fans he's progressing the club is one thing but that doesn't convince anyone to shell out millions of pounds to buy a minority shareholding when, if we are enduring a culture of failure other shareholders may look to ditch theirs before they lose all value whatsoever

[Jack The Flipper 5,936]

2 minutes ago, The Dude said:

King's not majority shareholder. Convincing the fans he's progressing the club is one thing but that doesn't convince anyone to shell out millions of pounds to buy a minority shareholding when, if we are enduring a culture of failure other shareholders may look to ditch theirs before they lose all value whatsoever

You're saying what I have said is an impossible outcome?

[The Dude 20,026]

1 minute ago, Jack The Flipper said:

You're saying what I have said is an impossible outcome?

No but I'm saying it's very unlikely. We're not a particularly attractive investment even when we are playing in the CL so I don't buy that King's plan is to take the club to a level where, through this austerity, we become just another Scottish club all in order to turn a profit on his shareholding.

[Jimfanciesthedude 24,540]

39 minutes ago, Albertz 78 said:

Indeed this is a silly argument I've seen used many times on RM.

For King to sell his shares and make money on them then the club has to be successful not failing.

successful to make a profit and fans theory of successful can be miles apart

a rangers scraping into the europa league every season while the tarriers win title after title will probably still be worth more than what king paid, also since there is absolutely no transparency whatsoever, we have no idea what the loan contracts with king and the other loanees are, they could quite easily get their loans converted to shares at whatever price they agreed on the contract,

[Malkster 4,888]

it says, I'll settle for 2nd place

[Albertz 78 918]

17 minutes ago, Jimbeamjunior said:

successful to make a profit and fans theory of successful can be miles apart

a rangers scraping into the europa league every season while the tarriers win title after title will probably still be worth more than what king paid, also since there is absolutely no transparency whatsoever, we have no idea what the loan contracts with king and the other loanees are, they could quite easily get their loans converted to shares at whatever price they agreed on the contract,

Rangers scraping into Europe and winning nothing won't increase the share price and even if it did we are looking at a very marginal increase at best. 

The only way to increase the price by a significant amount would be to win the league and make the CL getting the extra £20m income that brings.

The scenario you listed above would still have Rangers probably running at a loss who will pay King more than the face value he paid for the shares if the business is still loss making?

[jamess 3,422]

The team is underperforming with the resources at the managers disposal.  The buck stops with him. I am convinced an experienced Scottish manager who understands what 'battle fever' is would put a backbone into our squad.

[BlueAvenger 10,240]

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Maybe @BlueAvenger will explain how he foresees it working.

Not guilty.

Mind the space in the username mate !!

[loyalfollower 1,543]

4 hours ago, Virtuoso said:

A counter piece to yesterdays article.

http://www.vanguardbears.co.uk/article.php?i=144&a=it-is-time-the-king-was-dethroned

Some truth in it but also a lot of opinion.. king is a skinflint that's a fact but well never know how good warburton can be because he doesn't help himself by sticking with the same shit week after week. Do I think the signings have been first choice? No but I'd rather he came out and asked about budgets instead of acting with dignity( something king doesn't have). 

Id definitely like to see the back of king, warburton with better players could be a revelation but we'll never find out 

[OzGers 425]

Whatever happened to transparency? Could the fans group not set up a sit down with Gilligan or one of the board to get some answers? They seem so reluctant to bother engaging the fans so can't we put it to them? I understand they can't talk about SD, but surely some understanding of pre-contracts, types of players we are looking at,  share issue, investment update, sponsorship for next season, rossiter update, current loans and potential for extensions, billy gilmour update etc etc

It's scary how little we know about the current going ons of our club despite this board spouting transparency and investment as two key reasons for being voted in

We deserve to know where we are headed and if we should expect to be also rans for years to come

 

 

[Blue Avenger 22,567]

1 minute ago, OzGers said:

Whatever happened to transparency? Could the fans group not set up a sit down with Gilligan or one of the board to get some answers? They seem so reluctant to bother engaging the fans so can't we put it to them? I understand they can't talk about SD, but surely some understanding of pre-contracts, types of players we are looking at,  share issue, investment update, sponsorship for next season, rossiter update, current loans and potential for extensions, billy gilmour update etc etc

It's scary how little we know about the current going ons of our club despite this board spouting transparency and investment as two key reasons for being voted in

We deserve to know where we are headed and if we should expect to be also rans for years to come

 

 

Em, no.

The are two sides of the same coin and driven by the same self serving agenda. Individually and collectively they are the problem and C1872 are certainly not the solution.

We are firmly on the outside of a self serving agenda and I hope one day soon they all feel the wrath of the support at large, for being lied to, cheated, disrespected and taken for granted.

[Trooblue 1,973]

An excellent article. Hits the nail on the head. My worry is that King and co will ditch Warburton and replace him with one of the 'good old boys' just to buy themselves some time. 

[OzGers 425]

6 minutes ago, Blue Avenger said:

Em, no.

The are two sides of the same coin and driven by the same self serving agenda. Individually and collectively they are the problem and C1872 are certainly not the solution.

We are firmly on the outside of a self serving agenda and I hope one day soon they all feel the wrath of the support at large, for being lied to, cheated, disrespected and taken for granted.

Does it need to be c1872? Or could it simply be the fans group put some questions to the board I q & a format?

[The Dude 20,026]

5 minutes ago, OzGers said:

Whatever happened to transparency? Could the fans group not set up a sit down with Gilligan or one of the board to get some answers? They seem so reluctant to bother engaging the fans so can't we put it to them? I understand they can't talk about SD, but surely some understanding of pre-contracts, types of players we are looking at,  share issue, investment update, sponsorship for next season, rossiter update, current loans and potential for extensions, billy gilmour update etc etc

It's scary how little we know about the current going ons of our club despite this board spouting transparency and investment as two key reasons for being voted in

We deserve to know where we are headed and if we should expect to be also rans for years to come

 

 

So you want the board to update the public on who our transfer targets may be?

Share issue update - they are limited in what they can do until shareholders vote in favour of 'resolution 11'

Investment update - Again, the club is limited in getting external investment without 'res 11' passing.

Rossiter update - he's got a nerve issue in his calf and is expected to be fully fit before the end of the season

Billy Gilmour update - the club want to keep him and Warburton is very aware of him. He can't play for the first team until he turns 16 in June.

Sponsorship for next season - it's likely been (or being negotiated) and the club is never going to come out and speak about it until a deals done and ready to be announced. We've also still got a contract with 32Red so likely wouldnt go public until that deal is in it's final few weeks.

[Smile 26,606]

8 minutes ago, OzGers said:

Whatever happened to transparency? Could the fans group not set up a sit down with Gilligan or one of the board to get some answers? They seem so reluctant to bother engaging the fans so can't we put it to them? I understand they can't talk about SD, but surely some understanding of pre-contracts, types of players we are looking at,  share issue, investment update, sponsorship for next season, rossiter update, current loans and potential for extensions, billy gilmour update etc etc

It's scary how little we know about the current going ons of our club despite this board spouting transparency and investment as two key reasons for being voted in

We deserve to know where we are headed and if we should expect to be also rans for years to come

 

 

 

Maybe James Blair of Club1872 can ask  James Blair Board Member what's going on. ?

[Smile 26,606]

5 minutes ago, The Dude said:

So you want the board to update the public on who our transfer targets may be?

Share issue update - they are limited in what they can do until shareholders vote in favour of 'resolution 11'

Investment update - Again, the club is limited in getting external investment without 'res 11' passing.

Rossiter update - he's got a nerve issue in his calf and is expected to be fully fit before the end of the season

Billy Gilmour update - the club want to keep him and Warburton is very aware of him. He can't play for the first team until he turns 16 in June.

Sponsorship for next season - it's likely been (or being negotiated) and the club is never going to come out and speak about it until a deals done and ready to be announced. We've also still got a contract with 32Red so likely wouldnt go public until that deal is in it's final few weeks.

 

1

Did Fleck and Derek Ferguson not play when they were 15,? Have the rules changed? not that i'm saying he should play as he's still young coming into a struggling team wont help him.

[The Dude 20,026]

Just now, Smile said:

Did Fleck and Derek Ferguson play when they were 15,? Have the rules changed? not that i'm saying he should play as he's still young coming into a struggling team wont help him.

Yeah, SPFL rules now forbid under 16s playing league or reserve league football. That'll probably change soon when they bring back the reserve league