Wee Wullie Henderson tells it as it is

[6superbarry6 14,159]

40 minutes ago, Rfc52 said:

His signings have been horrendous.

Dembele isnt his. The rest are deilas mob. 

Most of his signings can't get a game. I'm.choking for him to spend big there

Sinclair?

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, esquire8 said:

Writing was on the wall far before W***e and co got their greedy hands on us. Murray was spending far too much with too little coming in. £18m in debt was being serviced by shafting the team in the McLeish era. Their time will come when Desmond starts wanting his money back and that shitehole they call home crumbles. Keep spending within our means.

I don't think it was. I think that's a popular justification that people use to excuse lack of spending. The bank wanted one of their finance reps on the board to oversee spending and as such we didn't sign a player in almost 2-seasons if my memory served me right - we obliged to that and were repaying the loan. 

It would have been sorted. We would have kept our nucluez of the team, not been away for 3/4 seasons and possibly more Champions League nights.

The bank were acting the cunt but they didn't ruin us nor did ambition ruin us. The facts are still the same regardless ... and I'll ask again, is 18-million debt for a club our size, with our assets, income, Champions League/Scottish champions at the time really beyond us? ... what were Hearts in debt until they got a CVA recently? 

[Hutton2008 646]

1 hour ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

By a mile the best comment on here. Keep calm, get our financial house in order. Spend wisely.

[cushynumber 25,178]

Just now, DBBTB said:

 

You have to factor in wages too though. Their average wage per year is over double what ours is (£717, 860 for them and £316,888 for us)

We need the 10-15 million to sign players but we need the same again added to the wage budget because a 2-3 million pound signing probably costs you closer to 4-6 million in total when you factor in their wages over the course of a three or four deal.

 

thats not Henderson's argument though....

however we dont need the same again. The wages you mentioned are the first team so £400K of a difference multiplied by says 20 players - that's  a further £8 milion - so £16.6 million plus further £8million in wages is £24.6 Million - less than half the figure quoted by henderson. Celtics first team squad is also very bloated which I think somewhat skews their wages figures upwards.

 

I think £20 Million total on first team and wages we would be in the mix

 

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

4 minutes ago, Hutton2008 said:

Yes. How many share issues and loans can you make in Scottish football? Every AGM figures are twisted and the word 'profit' gets misused. SDM made a mess of us and going further into debt is never the answer.

we need a proper investor, commercial deal before we can contemplate spending big.

How can audited and signed off accounts from independent financial firms be twisted? the tarrier detectives would have us shut-down quick as you like.

[cushynumber 25,178]

54 minutes ago, A.T.G said:

There is one major difference to their squad of last year and that is the manager. Someone who can organise a team and actually get them to play football, plus make a real difference with signings . We are yet to experience a decent manager since Smith left. Is Pedro the answer? Based on the weekend I have my doubts but only he can prove me wrong by never applying those tactics again. 

 

different argument 

[Hutton2008 646]

Just now, K.A.I said:

How can audited and signed off accounts from independent financial firms be twisted? the tarrier detectives would have us shut-down quick as you like.

The same as how they said we posted a profit in our last quarter. It's misleading.

[Copland bear 7,966]

If only more ex players spoke li,e Wullie, I would have loved to have saw him play, saw his video and wow, when you see Sterling going for £50m to Man City, What would they pay for wee Wullie in his prime ?

But £20million would do the job. As they are nothing special 

[esquire8 42,862]

1 hour ago, cushynumber said:

I think £20M spent  would do it easily and I base that on some facts not a figure plucked out the air as follows:

 

Celtics first team squad who played against Barca recently:

CELTIC : Dorus de Vries (Nottingham Forest, £100,000), Mikael Lustig (Rosenborg, pre-contract), Kolo Toure (Liverpool, free), Erik Sviatchenko (FC Midtjylland, £1.5m), Kieran Tierney, (Home grown, free), Scott Brown (Hibs, £4.4m), (Callum McGregor (Home grown, free), Nir Bitton (FC Ashdod, £700,000), James Forrest (Home grown, free), (Patrick Roberts (Manchester City, loan), Tom Rogic (Central Coast Mariners, £500,000), (Stuart Armstrong (Dundee Utd, £1.75m), Scott Sinclair (Aston Villa, £4m), Moussa Dembele (Fulham, £500,000).

UNUSED SUBS: Craig Gordon (Free), Emilio Izaguirre (Motagua, £650,000), Nadir Ciftci (Dundee Utd, £1.5m), Cristian Gamboa (WBA, £1m).

TOTAL: £16.6m.

 

and thats an entire squad

 

Transfer fees yes. But it's the wages that tell the biggest story. Sinclair and Dembele on £50k. Roberts is a shady deal with no wages through Lewwell son. Brown on £35k. Toure on £40k. More than we could ever spend on wages with our income currently. All this been bankrolled by Desmond for now. When he goes, the family will want the money back.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

All these old players must be disgusted at how easily beaten we were on Sunday  

[Hutton2008 646]

5 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I don't think it was. I think that's a popular justification that people use to excuse lack of spending. The bank wanted one of their finance reps on the board to oversee spending and as such we didn't sign a player in almost 2-seasons if my memory served me right - we obliged to that and were repaying the loan. 

It would have been sorted. We would have kept our nucluez of the team, not been away for 3/4 seasons and possibly more Champions League nights.

The bank were acting the cunt but they didn't ruin us nor did ambition ruin us. The facts are still the same regardless ... and I'll ask again, is 18-million debt for a club our size, with our assets, income, Champions League/Scottish champions at the time really beyond us? ... what were Hearts in debt until they got a CVA recently? 

The other thing you must remember is loans 'soft' or real still go in the revenue box in the excel spreadsheet.

[STEPPS BOY 74,000]

I'll be surprised if we spend 5 million in total.

 

Loans, cheap signings from Portugal and Mexico and mibbe a Dorrans type on big wages.

[Thermopylae 15,286]

7 minutes ago, esquire8 said:

Transfer fees yes. But it's the wages that tell the biggest story. Sinclair and Dembele on £50k. Roberts is a shady deal with no wages through Lewwell son. Brown on £35k. Toure on £40k. More than we could ever spend on wages with our income currently. All this been bankrolled by Desmond for now. When he goes, the family will want the money back.

I would say the biggest expense should be the manager he's the one who can make all the difference ... please don't tell me the leggomuncher is on 35k 

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, esquire8 said:

Transfer fees yes. But it's the wages that tell the biggest story. Sinclair and Dembele on £50k. Roberts is a shady deal with no wages through Lewwell son. Brown on £35k. Toure on £40k. More than we could ever spend on wages with our income currently. All this been bankrolled by Desmond for now. When he goes, the family will want the money back.

The wages is another red herring. We rake in about 15-million per season from season book money alone. What does that cover? ... for what we pay O'Halloran and Rossiter we could have paid Dembele's wages. It's about making the most of what you've got and spending wisely. Not doing it the way we've been doing it these past 5-years. Mismanagement on extreme levels, every season, every transfer window, every AGM without fail. 

[Hutton2008 646]

7 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

thats not Henderson's argument though....

however we dont need the same again. The wages you mentioned are the first team so £400K of a difference multiplied by says 20 players - that's  a further £8 milion - so £16.6 million plus further £8million in wages is £24.6 Million - less than half the figure quoted by henderson. Celtics first team squad is also very bloated which I think somewhat skews their wages figures upwards.

 

I think £20 Million total on first team and wages we would be in the mix

 

 

That with a proven gaffer we would win the league

[K.A.I 36,183]

2 minutes ago, Hutton2008 said:

The other thing you must remember is loans 'soft' or real still go in the revenue box in the excel spreadsheet.

So what soft loans conclusively went into the accounts in the revenues the season before we went to the wall with Whyte? Murray wasn't putting anything else in and Whyte already front-loaded 2-years worth of Ticketus money for his own takeover so that wouldn't have went into the clubs accounts, either. 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,752]

4 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

The wages is another red herring. We rake in about 15-million per season from season book money alone. What does that cover? ... for what we pay O'Halloran and Rossiter we could have paid Dembele's wages. It's about making the most of what you've got and spending wisely. Not doing it the way we've been doing it these past 5-years. Mismanagement on extreme levels, every season, every transfer window, every AGM without fail. 

Players coming to Scotland do so for a reason.

Challenge, profile, love of a club, etc

They offer the CL exposure many see as ideal and a stepping stone to the riches of the EPL.

That's as much why they can attract a better calibre of player easier than we can, regardless of the salary.

Though we do need to spend our money far more wisely and get more for every quid spent.

[A.T.G 10,773]

Dembele Dollar is on £50k?

[The Tavernator 279]

1 hour ago, Prso's headband said:

Nonsense. 

£50 million You're talking £20million maximum solely on players to guarantee the title. 

The media and others are giving them far too much credit, they have 4 players who are good quality, Sinclair, Dembele, Armstrong and Sviatchenko. We need 4 players to match or be better than that and yes that does cost money but lets face it, if your going to spend £4million on one player and bring him to Scottish football, obviously he's going to rip it apart and the other 3 have been half decent buys or punts that have worked. The rest of their squad is poor, average at best. 

Fod,

Wilson Wallace

Revamped midfield, keep Windass 

Dodoo

Keep Beerman and Bates. You're talking 4 quality players who would be drastically missed if they were suspended etc and a couple of others to bulk out the squad who could come in and do a job in the cups etc. Were not £50 million far away, I don't believe were £20 million far away either but if you wanted to make sure the league was won that's the figure you're looking at. I believe £10million would have us challenging all the way for the league.

Remember Krancjar and Rossiter could be good next season. Maybe Crooks can offer something if he can stay uninsured long enough.

[Vanoli 4,625]

I agree with most of the sentiment, but £50m is bollocks. Our last title winning side would mop the floor with this Celtic team, and i'm sure it was said we had only lost £30m worth when we went down. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Sportingintegritymyarse said:

Players coming to Scotland do so for a reason.

Challenge, profile, love of a club, etc

They offer the CL exposure many see as ideal and a stepping stone to the riches of the EPL.

That's as much why they can attract a better calibre of player easier than we can, regardless of the salary.

I know, but we are talking about finance alone - not a players ambition of which only Dembele knows anyway. Who knows? he might have a soft spot for us and picked us over Celtic if we went in for him and matched the financial package. We will never know.

We've had plenty top players come to us before when there's been no promise of Champions League football right away - Numan, Gio, Prso, Boumsong off the top of my head. There's other ways to attract top players than soley the promise of Champions League football.

As I said, I was only referring to the financial aspect that was raised. There's no reason why we can't prioritise things and sign one right top talent Bosman such as a Dembele than paying the wages of 2/3 O'Halloran's for example. 

[A.T.G 10,773]

14 minutes ago, cushynumber said:

different argument 

I know but I'm backing up your claim that no everything is money 

Keep up Cushy man

[RDFM 3,809]

1 hour ago, Prso's headband said:

Nonsense. 

£50 million You're talking £20million maximum solely on players to guarantee the title. 

The media and others are giving them far too much credit, they have 4 players who are good quality, Sinclair, Dembele, Armstrong and Sviatchenko. We need 4 players to match or be better than that and yes that does cost money but lets face it, if your going to spend £4million on one player and bring him to Scottish football, obviously he's going to rip it apart and the other 3 have been half decent buys or punts that have worked. The rest of their squad is poor, average at best. 

Fod,

Wilson Wallace

Revamped midfield, keep Windass 

Dodoo

Keep Beerman and Bates. You're talking 4 quality players who would be drastically missed if they were suspended etc and a couple of others to bulk out the squad who could come in and do a job in the cups etc. Were not £50 million far away, I don't believe were £20 million far away either but if you wanted to make sure the league was won that's the figure you're looking at. I believe £10million would have us challenging all the way for the league.

We're not winning the league with Dodoo up front. 

[A.T.G 10,773]

Just now, RDFM said:

We're not winning the league with Dodoo up front. 

Why not? With a proven goal scorer behind him or in front of him, we don't know how good he can be. Sometimes you just need a good front 2 who can link up well. We don't know that yet because we don't have a lot of options. Out of all the forwards, he'd be the one I'd keep

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,752]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I know, but we are talking about finance alone - not a players ambition of which only Dembele knows anyway. Who knows? he might have a soft spot for us and picked us over Celtic if we went in for him and matched the financial package. We will never know.

We've had plenty top players come to us before when there's been no promise of Champions League football right away - Numan, Gio, Prso, Boumsong off the top of my head. There's other ways to attract top players than soley the promise of Champions League football.

As I said, I was only referring to the financial aspect that was raised. There's no reason why we can't prioritise things and sign one right top talent Bosman such as a Dembele than paying the wages of 2/3 O'Halloran's for example. 

Fair enough.

Just think there's some that think it's just a case of matching what the Tarriers pay to get folk to come here.