Tavernier take a bow

[K.A.I 36,183]

3 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

I don't have the time or inclination to deal with the constant tripe you post. 

Funnily enough your not as big a deal as you think.

If you've enough time to read it and remember it and pile it all up in your heed then surely you could take 2 minutes to mention it at the time and give me half a chance.

I don't think I'm a big deal but you must think I am for some reason. You seem to be wasting a lot of time on someone who's another Bluepeter9 in your eyes. 

[born a blue nose 91,076]

1 hour ago, Rfc52 said:

Honestly can't see how you can say that about last night

Tav was superb and both defensively and going forward he was outstanding. I don't get what more he could've done last night. He was more suspect v the taigs at the back than last night 

Thought he was class last night. His best game

Two last ditch tackles in the last 10 where outstanding and both stopped certain goals. 

 

[Chineseboy 1,563]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

With all due respect suck my dick ya chinky cunt 

Your place or mine?

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Chineseboy said:

Your place or mine?

I hear there's a Cricket ground in Partick that's just perfect for this

[Chineseboy 1,563]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

I hear there's a Cricket ground in Partick that's just perfect for this

Bring a bottle of wine!

[K.A.I 36,183]

9 minutes ago, born a blue nose said:

Thought he was class last night. His best game

Two last ditch tackles in the last 10 where outstanding and both stopped certain goals. 

 

I'm not saying he played badly last night and I said they 2 last ditch tackles were superb, just don't think it was his best ever game ... I even said in the match thread at half-time about being caught out of position and Bates having to cover him a lot due to it - that doesn't change the minute the final whistle goes and we have recorded the win.

Maybe I am being harsh or expecting too much but I think we could be doing a lot better defensively with 2 solid defensive minded full-backs in our full-backs places - even though it sounds strange saying that after a clean-sheet last night, just talking generally.

[Chineseboy 1,563]

44 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

I'm not saying he played badly last night and I said they 2 last ditch tackles were superb, just don't think it was his best ever game ... I even said in the match thread at half-time about being caught out of position and Bates having to cover him a lot due to it - that doesn't change the minute the final whistle goes and we have recorded the win.

Maybe I am being harsh or expecting too much but I think we could be doing a lot better defensively with 2 solid defensive minded full-backs in our full-backs places - even though it sounds strange saying that after a clean-sheet last night, just talking generally.

I will agree, sometimes he is caught out of position. However, we have to weigh up his attacking qualities into the equation. Would you play him in midfield as opposed to defence?  It's definitely a possible option.

[Chineseboy 1,563]

1 hour ago, K.A.I said:

He's not even Chinese - it was a joke. I would rather he tried to debate than just triggered me saying "nonsense" that's no way to carry on.

Did you actually read what I wrote? let me remind you ..I said..

Tav's best game was easily against celtic a few weeks ago.
I've seen him play a lot worse (meaning he didn't actually play badly)
I said he made a couple pof cracking blocks.

and also said myself I might be "expecting too much" .. so what is your problem? because I refuse to join in the Tav wankfest after a good result? listen good results makes people see things and exaggerate hence comments like "best ever game" when his best game IMO was clearly celtic the other week.

Or did you not like my comment on John? do yourself a favour (and me) and watch the game again and tell me I'm talking shite about the examples of both being caught cold position wise at full-back - it's the same every single week and also feel free to look around where this morning I've praised Murty and Fod.

You're right about my " nonsense" comment. Apologies for that, not the way I usually do things.

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Chineseboy said:

I will agree, sometimes he is caught out of position. However, we have to weigh up his attacking qualities into the equation. Would you play him in midfield as opposed to defence?  It's definitely a possible option.

It's worth considering but it would mean no Candaies .. but Candaies blows hot and cold.

Would be good to have Tav, Murphy and Candaies all for that attacking right hand side role. 

I think Tav has talent and positive atributes but as a full-back when it comes to defending (yes I know they 2 blocks last night in the 6-yard box were superb) we need a lot, lot better. 

I was saying yesterday too it's OK saying "ah but there's more to modern full-back than just defending" I don't agree ..a few years back under Smith he had 4 defensive-minded center half's playing across the backline and including full-back with Papac and Broadfoot in the full back positions because they could clear their lines, mark and defend. And that was successful.

That's what I want too.

I seen someone saying earlier that too many people ignore Tav's positive points because they can't see past the defensive faults - what's wrong with that when your meant to be a defender first and foremost? I'd flip it and say some folk ignore and tolerate the defensive failings, all because he can charge up the park and make an assist.

[BloodRunsBlue 1,303]

Tav is thriving under this new setup.Seems to be enjoying his football. Of course, winning games always helps.

It might be a good thing that last nights game wasn't televised. That defensive and attacking display might just have attracted attention from a few clubs down south.

Now if he can just get through Sunday and stay  under the radar, we should get his contract extended.

 

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

11 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

It's worth considering but it would mean no Candaies .. but Candaies blows hot and cold.

Would be good to have Tav, Murphy and Candaies all for that attacking right hand side role. 

I think Tav has talent and positive atributes but as a full-back when it comes to defending (yes I know they 2 blocks last night in the 6-yard box were superb) we need a lot, lot better. 

I was saying yesterday too it's OK saying "ah but there's more to modern full-back than just defending" I don't agree ..a few years back under Smith he had 4 defensive-minded center half's playing across the backline and including full-back with Papac and Broadfoot in the full back positions because they could clear their lines, mark and defend. And that was successful.

That's what I want too.

I seen someone saying earlier that too many people ignore Tav's positive points because they can't see past the defensive faults - what's wrong with that when your meant to be a defender first and foremost? I'd flip it and say some folk ignore and tolerate the defensive failings, all because he can charge up the park and make an assist.

You could stick Johnny Evans in at right back and he would defend better than Dani Alves. Dani Alves is without a doubt the better full back though.

I think that your line on "he is meant to be a defender first and foremost" is the crux of this argument.

He is meant to be a fullback first and foremost. Modern fullbacks attack and defend, he isn't supposed to be the same as a centre half pushed into full back area.

I have no doubt if you applied the same criteria that you are applying to Tav to other modern fullbacks down in the EPL, you would be saying exactly the same about their positioning etc. 

Because you have this "defend first" notion, it is blinding you to lots of the other work he is doing.

His cross for the goal was sensational, his running all night was fantastic. He dragged their midfield and defence all over the shop with his overlaps and dribbling. Even defensively he was really good, out muscling the Aberdeen attackers and winning lots of tackles. These were all in addition to the penalty and last ditch challenges.

I genuinely believe that you just hate the role of a modern full back and will never be willing to sacrifice a bit of defensive strength for all the attacking benefit they bring, or you want a modern full back who is both great at going forward and absolutely solid at the back. Unfortunately we can't afford the £50m plus fee that the latter commands.

[BlueboyG 5,319]

15 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

It's worth considering but it would mean no Candaies .. but Candaies blows hot and cold.

Would be good to have Tav, Murphy and Candaies all for that attacking right hand side role. 

I think Tav has talent and positive atributes but as a full-back when it comes to defending (yes I know they 2 blocks last night in the 6-yard box were superb) we need a lot, lot better. 

I was saying yesterday too it's OK saying "ah but there's more to modern full-back than just defending" I don't agree ..a few years back under Smith he had 4 defensive-minded center half's playing across the backline and including full-back with Papac and Broadfoot in the full back positions because they could clear their lines, mark and defend. And that was successful.

That's what I want too.

I seen someone saying earlier that too many people ignore Tav's positive points because they can't see past the defensive faults - what's wrong with that when your meant to be a defender first and foremost? I'd flip it and say some folk ignore and tolerate the defensive failings, all because he can charge up the park and make an assist.

I really don't think you give Tav the credit he's due tbh, you've got your opinion and sticking to it no matter how much he does in a game, defensively he has improved a lot, it's one of those things that if people say it often enough then it sticks, I get fed up listening to folk who repeat the same shite every time Tav is mentioned, Tav is a player that you don't like too much but is a player that if he left we would soon realise what we had , I would rather have a player like Tav who gets up and down the park than an outright old fashioned right back who won't go over the halfway line, how many times last night did he take the ball off his opposition or shut down the cross and also the blocks that you mention, he is one of the most comfortable players on the ball we have in the team but you consistently disagree with anyone who rates him highly. 

[Smile 26,622]

He and the Hand of Fod saved us last ten minutes. overall man of the Match by quite a distance. 

I thought Holt was excellent as well.

[K.A.I 36,183]

6 minutes ago, mitre_mouldmaster said:

You could stick Johnny Evans in at right back and he would defend better than Dani Alves. Dani Alves is without a doubt the better full back though.

I think that your line on "he is meant to be a defender first and foremost" is the crux of this argument.

He is meant to be a fullback first and foremost. Modern fullbacks attack and defend, he isn't supposed to be the same as a centre half pushed into full back area.

I have no doubt if you applied the same criteria that you are applying to Tav to other modern fullbacks down in the EPL, you would be saying exactly the same about their positioning etc. 

Because you have this "defend first" notion, it is blinding you to lots of the other work he is doing.

His cross for the goal was sensational, his running all night was fantastic. He dragged their midfield and defence all over the shop with his overlaps and dribbling. Even defensively he was really good, out muscling the Aberdeen attackers and winning lots of tackles. These were all in addition to the penalty and last ditch challenges.

I genuinely believe that you just hate the role of a modern full back and will never be willing to sacrifice a bit of defensive strength for all the attacking benefit they bring, or you want a modern full back who is both great at going forward and absolutely solid at the back. Unfortunately we can't afford the £50m plus fee that the latter commands.

Nothing is blinding me I give credit where it's due ... I've even given him credit in this thread and others for some of the stuff he's done if you want to stop skim reading and take note.

Your last line is correct, though, I don't like this notion of a modern full-back at all. In fact, Numan and Robertson (and I know we don't have the money for those types of players before you say it) could do both, they could defend first and foremost. I'm willing to sacrifice something going forward for someone who's better at the defensive side of things. I really don't grasp why that's no offensive to some.

5 minutes ago, BlueboyG said:

I really don't think you give Tav the credit he's due tbh, you've got your opinion and sticking to it no matter how much he does in a game, defensively he has improved a lot, it's one of those things that if people say it often enough then it sticks, I get fed up listening to folk who repeat the same shite every time Tav is mentioned, Tav is a player that you don't like too much but is a player that if he left we would soon realise what we had , I would rather have a player like Tav who gets up and down the park than an outright old fashioned right back who won't go over the halfway line, how many times last night did he take the ball off his opposition or shut down the cross and also the blocks that you mention, he is one of the most comfortable players on the ball we have in the team but you consistently disagree with anyone who rates him highly. 

Again, not strictly true for the reasons given above and as for your last line, is it not OK to disagree with people who you umm disagree with? surely consistently doing it is better than flip-flopping like what most on here do from game to game? I'll make zero apologies for it ... it's my preference that I want a full back who can defend better than Tav and John for the other side ... why does no-one use the same arguments back for John? which proves my point that if you are good in other areas, the defensive duties will happily be ignored - case in point. 

[Malvern 11,329]

2 hours ago, K.A.I said:

I acknowledged the last ditch tackles but I am talking about the usual aspects of his game. I am obviously in the minority on this one but if we are giving anyone man of the match for saving us in defence then it's Fod. No contest. 

I would give it to Wes as well so your not alone, tav had a great game as well and so did a few others but some of those saves were first class.

[Moody Blue Legend 62,003]

Can’t think when he had a better game.  Not his biggest fan defensively as I think he gets caught either too far up the park or too narrow.  But last night was a good yin.

[BlueboyG 5,319]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Nothing is blinding me I give credit where it's due ... I've even given him credit in this thread and others for some of the stuff he's done if you want to stop skim reading and take note.

Your last line is correct, though, I don't like this notion of a modern full-back at all. In fact, Numan and Robertson (and I know we don't have the money for those types of players before you say it) could do both, they could defend first and foremost. I'm willing to sacrifice something going forward for someone who's better at the defensive side of things. I really don't grasp why that's no offensive to some.

Again, not strictly true for the reasons given above and as for your last line, is it not OK to disagree with people who you umm disagree with? surely consistently doing it is better than flip-flopping like what most on here do from game to game? I'll make zero apologies for it ... it's my preference that I want a full back who can defend better than Tav and John for the other side ... why does no-one use the same arguments back for John? which proves my point that if you are good in other areas, the defensive duties will happily be ignored - case in point. 

Nobody mentions John because he playes in the same manner as Tav and likes to get forward when possible, the difference is Tav is a far better creative player going forward, they both have ample pace when chasing back, Nobody is saying you should flip flop, you have made it very clear that you don't rate the player in the way most other fans do, I just don't get some of your criticism when he has clearly improved defensively , anyway we are all entitled to our opinions but it seems evidently clear that if fans don't agree with yours then you dont accept that and will always want the last word.

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Nothing is blinding me I give credit where it's due ... I've even given him credit in this thread and others for some of the stuff he's done if you want stop skim reading and take note. Your last line is correct, though, I don't like this notion of a modern full-back at all. In fact, Numan and Robertson (and I know we don't have the money for those types of players before you say it) could do both, they could defend first and foremost. I'm willing to sacrifice something going forward for someone who's better at the defensive side of things. I really don't grasp why that's no offensive to some.

Again, not strictly true for the reasons given above and as for your last line, is it not OK to disagree with people who you umm disagree with? surely consistently doing it is better than flip-flopping like what most on here do from game to game? I'll make zero apologies for it ... it's my preference that I want a full back who can defend better than Tav and John for the other side ... why does no-one use the same arguments back for John? which proves my point that if you are good in other areas, the defensive duties will happily be ignored - case in point. 

I didn't skim read and I did take note.

If you look at where I listed the points from Tavs performance last night, you will see I segregated the points you praised him for (last ditch tackles and penalty) from all the other points you didn't mention.

Im not sure if you intended for this to be the case or not, but earlier in the thread you actually made it sound like you would rather have had Broadfoot in his prime playing right back for us than Tav???

If that is indeed the case, then I think I can safely speak on the behalf of 99% of the forum that we are never going to see eye to eye.

Tav is the only player that we have that would walk into Smiths team. It is far easier to stand out defensively when you have real quality around you.

Put Tav in Walter smiths team and you are looking at another Hutton.

Put Broadfoot in our current team and you are looking at a guy who cant microwave an egg.

[Goianegra 4,702]

"Easily replaced" is a term I've seen uesd to describe him a few times on here this season, which is baffling. 

[.Williamson. 83,822]

This is all down to my message to him before the game against the taigs when I told him to catch himself on and make himself a hero by going to war with the taigs 

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, BlueboyG said:

Nobody mentions John because he playes in the same manner as Tav and likes to get forward when possible, the difference is Tav is a far better creative player going forward, they both have ample pace when chasing back, Nobody is saying you should flip flop, you have made it very clear that you don't rate the player in the way most other fans do, I just don't get some of your criticism when he has clearly improved defensively , anyway we are all entitled to our opinions but it seems evidently clear that if fans don't agree with yours then you dont accept that and will always want the last word.

He's not improved defensively though, he's the same player in the defensive sense he's always been - the difference is he's added more things to his game in other areas like going forward and his assists which is good and well if that's what you look for in a full-back, which I don't.

Your talking nonsense about I don't accept others opinions - I do - I'll just debate it strongly and try to make it clear where I am coming from as too many people (as has been evident in this tread) ignore some aspects of what I say just so they can have a pop for me not appreciating their golden boy the same way they do - look back I've already said I'd like to see him further up out of full back because that's me acknolwedging his strengths.

I'll always get the last word, or try to, because I have literally nothing else to do in work apart from sit online most days and this is the perfect way to pass the time. I might sound a bit pig headed when I believe something to be true though - that's just the way I am ... I just can't stand people triggering me with certain phrases and not making an effort to appreciate my point of view - it works both ways, I've to respect others opinions but no-one in this thread will respect mine. 

Just now, mitre_mouldmaster said:

I didn't skim read and I did take note.

If you look at where I listed the points from Tavs performance last night, you will see I segregated the points you praised him for (last ditch tackles and penalty) from all the other points you didn't mention.

Im not sure if you intended for this to be the case or not, but earlier in the thread you actually made it sound like you would rather have had Broadfoot in his prime playing right back for us than Tav???

If that is indeed the case, then I think I can safely speak on the behalf of 99% of the forum that we are never going to see eye to eye.

Tav is the only player that we have that would walk into Smiths team. It is far easier to stand out defensively when you have real quality around you.

Put Tav in Walter smiths team and you are looking at another Hutton.

Put Broadfoot in our current team and you are looking at a guy who cant microwave an egg.

No I'm not saying I'd rather have Broadfoot than Tav .. I didn't rate Broadfoot that highly, the point I was clearly making was that in a defensive-sense it makes sense to have defence minded players in defensive positions ... not people who are poor at defending but can do something else better in an attacking position. That's madness to me.

[bluenose244 2,622]

Fear we will need to cash in on him soon, unless a new contract can be struck out over the summer. 

[Vanoli 4,628]

For all he deserves credit for seeing the bigger picture in terms of the direction of the club, boardroom etc probably before most people.... KAI's technical knowledge of football is marginally above clueless

[mitre_mouldmaster 21,510]

2 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

He's not improved defensively though, he's the same player in the defensive sense he's always been - the difference is he's added more things to his game in other areas like going forward and his assists which is good and well if that's what you look for in a full-back, which I don't.

Your talking nonsense about I don't accept others opinions - I do - I'll just debate it strongly and try to make it clear where I am coming from as too many people (as has been evident in this tread) ignore some aspects of what I say just so they can have a pop for me not appreciating their golden boy the same way they do - look back I've already said I'd like to see him further up out of full back because that's me acknolwedging his strengths.

I'll always get the last word, or try to, because I have literally nothing else to do in work apart from sit online most days and this is the perfect way to pass the time. I might sound a bit pig headed when I believe something to be true though - that's just the way I am ... I just can't stand people triggering me with certain phrases and not making an effort to appreciate my point of view - it works both ways, I've to respect others opinions but no-one in this thread will respect mine. 

No I'm not saying I'd rather have Broadfoot than Tav .. I didn't rate Broadfoot that highly, the point I was clearly making was that in a defensive-sense it makes sense to have defence minded players in defensive positions ... not people who are poor at defending but can do something else better in an attacking position. That's madness to me.

I going to have a complete stab in the dark here, not knowing your stance.....

Did you or did you not previously criticise McKay and Windass for failure to track back and for chickens get out of 50/50s with defenders?

If so, then surely you see the hypocrisy in your stance.

[K.A.I 36,183]

Just now, Vanoli said:

For all he deserves credit for seeing the bigger picture in terms of the direction of the club, boardroom etc probably before most people.... KAI's technical knowledge of football is marginally above clueless

and you are the Sir Alex Ferguson of all things football yourself I take it?

There's 3 things about this forum that will always confuse the shite out of me and that's the love-in for Ryan Jack, the people who think there's a great player in Jordan Rossiter and this new found oppresive undercurrent that Tav is exempt from criticism of any kind. 

Give me some examples of where my football knowledge is lacking. I'm always usually always correct about managers and players - if that doesn't make me sound too pig headed.