Miller and Wallace Suspended

[OhW 4,669]

15 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Yeah but you aren't sacking someone though by putting them on gardening leave. That's what I'm saying. So I don't know where the dismissal aspect comes in?

You are asking them to stay away, whilst they are getting paid. Is that not entirely the clubs right provided they are still meeting their contractual obligations to the player? your under no obligation to have a player play every week or even report to train with the first team - so what's the difference? provided the board say the right things it won't be an issue.

Why did O'Halloran claim constructive dismissal when he was dropped, sent to train and play with the unders? 

Isn't there a rule about clubs being required, at the very minimum, to provide training facilities for a player? Something about making sure we don't harm their 'tools' for future work I think. 

Obviously if the player decided not to use the training facilities I'm sure they have that right.

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

1 minute ago, Ger_onimo said:

Nope, wasn’t claiming to, and nor do you. I was responding directly to this post though:

 

You can not vent your anger to the point that someone feels threatened by your actions. That’s todays world mate  

We can debate if in a football dressing room you should have a bit thicker skin when it comes to the hairdryer treatment, but at the end of the day if they even threatened Murty they are gone. 

 

[markem 7,286]

2 minutes ago, Goosetav said:

Murty saying he wasn't prepared to have it out with them as it would lead to confrontation makes him fair game imo

Whole thing is bewildering. I’m not sure I’ve seen Wallace be held back from anyone, ever.  

[K.A.I 36,183]

12 minutes ago, jackrfc95 said:

https://fourladshadadream.wordpress.com/2018/04/17/wallace-miller-and-another-shambles/

 

Still reads a bit too hedged and wishy washy for my liking. Like they fell compelled to do it as every few lines there is the need to kiss their ass for something in amongst it.

Maybe I missed it, but the lies and investment mentioned? if not why? it's OK saying about manager clarification etc but the funding issues to compete is the biggest thing and we were lied to on it. 

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, OhW said:

Isn't there a rule about clubs being required, at the very minimum, to provide training facilities for a player? Something about making sure we don't harm their 'tools' for future work I think. 

Obviously if the player decided not to use the training facilities I'm sure they have that right.

Probably is, but you get him to come into training alone or with the youths. 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

6 minutes ago, billscott said:

if i had been in murty vicinity on sunday afternoon i would have had a go at him as well   shambles of a manager

Agreed mate, still stands though if you want to smack him carry on but your getting the sack in the morning. 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,776]

1 minute ago, markem said:

Whole thing is bewildering. I’m not sure I’ve seen Wallace be held back from anyone, ever.  

You can tell the way Wallace speaks about the club he wants what's best for us. That's undeniable as far as I'm concerned.

[RedWhiteBlue1872 407]

5 minutes ago, Bighouse said:

As much as Murty should resign, it's been abundantly clear to me for a long time that Miller is a locker room cancer 

You know what, I don't even think he is a cancer now. I am changing my tune.

I just see a guy hurting who has the best interests of Rangers at heart, Pedro and Murty saga's have confirmed this.

He has an ego and ignorance about him but I don't think him and Wallace went berserk for their own sake, surely for their passion for our club we love?

He has effectively ended his Rangers career through caring.

[K.A.I 36,183]

4 minutes ago, markem said:

Didn’t read the chain back properly Kai, I agree  with that, we feel you need rest or train with youths whatever, within rights to that. We are making it a formal issue (circus) when we don’t have to. 

Can you even put a player on gardening leave anyway? if not, then just keep him suspended indefo if that's not possible then for as long as possible for their storm to be over, the heat to be off them and the season book monies in ... I think provided you are picking up the tab for his wages there's a lot the club probably can do legally and keep themselves onside and have the desired effect. 

The point I was making originally is don't under-estimate what this board is capable of when it comes to deflection and taking heat off themselves. 

[billscott 2,463]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

Agreed mate, still stands though if you want to smack him carry on but your getting the sack in the morning. 

they 2 would not be bothered about that miller was going at end of season and wallace will struggle to get a decent club  too long out injured and at the back of his career

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

6 minutes ago, Goosetav said:

Don't disagree with that but if Murty really told them he wasn't going to say anything to them incase it caused confrontation he would have deserved a slap.

?? is that what he is meant to have said. 

Thats straight out of the youth coaches manual, you are not supposed to lose your temper with the players think even shouting is a no no. 

[Lloyd 10,756]

Wallace must have been as raging as most of us if he was having to be held back, doesn’t strike me as that sort of guy. I love his passion for the club

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, billscott said:

they 2 would not be bothered about that miller was going at end of season and wallace will struggle to get a decent club  too long out injured and at the back of his career

Agreed. 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,776]

1 minute ago, Courtyard Bear said:

?? is that what he is meant to have said. 

Thats straight out of the youth coaches manual, you are not supposed to lose your temper with the players think even shouting is a no no. 

Apparently said it in an interview after the game.

[gsa 3,906]

24 minutes ago, GWR1979 said:

He could easily have left for better prospects thn div 3 in Scotland he stayed Loyal and has carried himself well as Rangers Captain we just publicly humiliate him in full public view. Scapegoated and he wasn't even on the park, Shocking way to get rid of a Rangers Legend.

You don't know what happened? 

And Lee Wallace? Legend? He's been captain of a series of lazy, weak, unprofessional, cowardly Rangers teams.

You're deluded.

[gers31 246]

Don't get why Murty hasn't been sacked either take it he's here till end of season? 

[Courtyard Bear 41,357]

Just now, Goosetav said:

Apparently said it in an interview after the game.

Youth coach all over it mate, ?? I even get a row from my sons coaches for shouting at him to get the defence out or to get his finger out and actually tackle someone. 

[gsa 3,906]

4 minutes ago, RedWhiteBlue1872 said:

You know what, I don't even think he is a cancer now. I am changing my tune.

I just see a guy hurting who has the best interests of Rangers at heart, Pedro and Murty saga's have confirmed this.

He has an ego and ignorance about him but I don't think him and Wallace went berserk for their own sake, surely for their passion for our club we love?

He has effectively ended his Rangers career through caring.

Yes. Caring about himself. The fact he's happy for those around to send tweets on his behalf sums him up. 

Thank God we've now seen the back of him. Disease of a guy.

 

[K.A.I 36,183]

1 minute ago, Goosetav said:

Apparently said it in an interview after the game.

Did he not say something to the effect after the Motherwell game 2-weeks ago that at half-time he shouted at them, gave them a rocket and that's the first time he's done it?

That's a massive part of the problem if so. If I never had anyone to be accountable to in my job or someone to discipline/shout at me if I fucked up, then subconciously you wouldn't really care about messing up if you are getting mollycoddled and encouraged anyway regardless of success or failure.

[Ger_onimo 20,488]

8 minutes ago, Courtyard Bear said:

You can not vent your anger to the point that someone feels threatened by your actions. That’s todays world mate  

We can debate if in a football dressing room you should have a bit thicker skin when it comes to the hairdryer treatment, but at the end of the day if they even threatened Murty they are gone. 

But that stuff goes on in dressing rooms every day. On which basis they’d have a case of being victimised.

Aside from that, if a Rangers manager has used employment law to say he feels threatened and get his own players sacked, then we’re in even more trouble then I thought.

[backup 4,724]

They may have to be reinstated if indeed they are suspended..

 

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,776]

1 minute ago, K.A.I said:

Did he not say something to the effect after the Motherwell game 2-weeks ago that at half-time he shouted at them, gave them a rocket and that's the first time he's done it?

That's a massive part of the problem if so. If I never had anyone to be accountable to in my job or someone to discipline/shout at me if I fucked up, then subconciously you wouldn't really care about messing up if you are getting mollycoddled and encouraged anyway regardless of success or failure.

Aye something like that

Was a game earlier this season, think it was Easter Road where he said Danny Wilson was the one firing into them trying to get more out of them.

[The Specky Forum Organiser 64,776]

1 minute ago, Ger_onimo said:

But that stuff goes on in dressing rooms every day. On which basis they’d have a case of being victimised.

Aside from that, if a Rangers manager has used employment law to say he feels threatened and get his own players sacked, then we’re in even more trouble then I thought.

Shouldn't laugh but  

[markem 7,286]

3 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Can you even put a player on gardening leave anyway? if not, then just keep him suspended indefo if that's not possible then for as long as possible for their storm to be over, the heat to be off them and the season book monies in ... I think provided you are picking up the tab for his wages there's a lot the club probably can do legally and keep themselves onside and have the desired effect. 

The point I was making originally is don't under-estimate what this board is capable of when it comes to deflection and taking heat off themselves. 

It really does feel like deflection, even in the timing and manner it started to break.  The club could have completely removed the two of them without any risk and exposure yet we suspend.  WTF is the point in suspending a guy who’s contract runs out in weeks? - As for Wallace, I’ve said previously I’d like to see this ‘had to be held back’ version of him as I haven’t seen it on the pitch. 

Fuck knows, honestly fuck knows - it’s insult to injury this public parading of ourselves after a humiliation like that. 

[The Dude 20,026]

23 minutes ago, K.A.I said:

Yeah but you aren't sacking someone though by putting them on gardening leave. That's what I'm saying. So I don't know where the dismissal aspect comes in?

You are asking them to stay away, whilst they are getting paid. Is that not entirely the clubs right provided they are still meeting their contractual obligations to the player? your under no obligation to have a player play every week or even report to train with the first team - so what's the difference? provided the board say the right things it won't be an issue.

Why did O'Halloran claim constructive dismissal when he was dropped, sent to train and play with the unders? 

Because when it's a manager you have a valid, legitimate reason to take such a course of action - namely results. To do it with a manager who is top of the league and winning cups would be a totally different story and is why they almost always get pay-offs when they do leave clubs. I would guarantee that in 99% of payoffs to managers, one of the clauses will stipulate that neither party can raise further legal action.

If you have a 'manufactured storm' and suspend an employee pending a formal disciplinary investigation over something that didn't actually happen or is massively blown out of proportion and used to divert away from something else then you don't really have a legitimate reason to put someone on garden leave or take any kind of formal disciplinary action.

The club will have an obligation of some sort towards the player. Contracts almost always have some sort of obligation from the employer to the employee - whether it is work location, provision of equipment etc, and a reasonable one to assume that would exist would be access to their place of employment. They don't have at the minute and are subject to a formal disciplinary process.

O'Halloran couldn't claim constructive dismissal. He no-showed a game and disciplinary action was taken which (afaik) included a brief suspension from while an investigation was done