SPFL Shambles

[STEPPS BOY 73,916]

Just now, Sweetheart said:

They could abandon the league and get paid for what as been televised and then freeze the contract until football starts again as a good will gesture. 

Isn’t that what they are doing?

[TheFamousPigeon 9,352]

34 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

How the hell have they had clearance for a National Famine Commemoration Day shirt logo for next season when Rangers were denied a poppy on their shirt. They're flouting the logo rules. not posting the tweet because of the pic.

https://twitter.com/Record_Sport/status/1261234155586805762

 

How sad can a club be.

LOOK at that fucking strip with all of its bollocks  

"50th Anniversary of LISBOA 67" - "FAMINE COMMEMORATION DAY" - "ONE STAR"
  All on the top half front of one shirt.

The most classless bunch of vermin I've ever seen.

[GersInCanada 7,775]

2 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

The league is paying out 10 million to broadcasters for games not played this season.

Surely null and void is basically saying that this season never happened so in effect all sponsorship money and tv money not duefor season.

I think the fact that no league is going down that route says it all.

A contract is a contract and enforceable so I don't see the difference between null and void and the option the SPFL have chosen. In either case they are entitled to claim back money having paid for something that was not delivered.

* Not a legal opinion just mine.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

9 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

Isn’t that what they are doing?

I don't believe so, they have a new contract with sky, the existing one includes BT.  Sky have already said they want to renegotiate the new deal because of covid-19 

[ayrshireranger 8,076]

Apologies if already posted:

 

'Scottish football's mentality is choking any progress'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646285

[Sweetheart 8,458]

9 minutes ago, TheFamousPigeon said:

How sad can a club be.

LOOK at that fucking strip with all of its bollocks  

"50th Anniversary of LISBOA 67" - "FAMINE COMMEMORATION DAY" - "ONE STAR"
  All on the top half front of one shirt.

The most classless bunch of vermin I've ever seen.

How have they managed to get that logo on their shirt for next season though, there's strict rules about logos. Have the SPFL/SFA granted them permission, if so on what grounds?

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

7 minutes ago, STEPPS BOY said:

The league is paying out 10 million to broadcasters for games not played this season.

Surely null and void is basically saying that this season never happened so in effect all sponsorship money and tv money not duefor season.

I think the fact that no league is going down that route says it all.

Maybe, that's what's unclear. But they sure as fuck got the same tv coverage and publicity from 29 of our games ending it by n&v that they do from ending it PPG.  The wording of the league conclusion differs, what they've got out of the season doesnt.

Have these sponsors and broadcasters been consulted, do they see differences in what they can recover based on the two identical no of games completed in an incomplete season, but where their action differs based on how the spfl conclude it? Who knows, seen nothing from any sponsor or broadcaster.

I think the fact no one pursues it is because its been taken off the table, and we dont want to be seen to demand it as the whole issue becomes a them v us one. Doesnt mean it's more or less viable than what we ended up with.

 

[STEPPS BOY 73,916]

English Premiership..

“The only reason the 2019-20 season has not already been declared null and void is not down to any noble desire to see Liverpool crowned worthy champions.

It is simply because the clubs do not want to lose £762million in lost broadcast revenue.

That is the sum Premier League teams would have to refund Sky and BT Sports if the season does not play to a finish.

But the cash has already been banked and — in the majority of cases — spent. Most clubs couldn’t give it back even if they wanted to.”

 

That’s why they’d rather call EPL on PPG basis and possibly face legal action from relegated clubs than Null and Void it.

[Smile 26,606]

17 minutes ago, TheFamousPigeon said:

How sad can a club be.

LOOK at that fucking strip with all of its bollocks  

"50th Anniversary of LISBOA 67" - "FAMINE COMMEMORATION DAY" - "ONE STAR"
  All on the top half front of one shirt.

The most classless bunch of vermin I've ever seen.

They need the money.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

18 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Maybe, that's what's unclear. But they sure as fuck got the same tv coverage and publicity from 29 of our games ending it by n&v that they do from ending it PPG.  The wording of the league conclusion differs, what they've got out of the season doesnt.

Have these sponsors and broadcasters been consulted, do they see differences in what they can recover based on the two identical no of games completed in an incomplete season, but where their action differs based on how the spfl conclude it? Who knows, seen nothing from any sponsor or broadcaster.

I think the fact no one pursues it is because its been taken off the table, and we dont want to be seen to demand it as the whole issue becomes a them v us one. Doesnt mean it's more or less viable than what we ended up with.

 

This is what was agreed.

Sky Sports    30 live matches per season until 2020, Saturday-night goal highlights on Sky Sports News
BT Sport    30 live matches per season plus play-offs live until 2020
BBC Alba (UK only)    38 delayed matches on Saturday evenings and 6 live Scottish Championship or Scottish League One matches
BBC Scotland (UK only)    Sunday-night Scottish Premiership Highlights, 20 live Friday-night Scottish Championship matches.

 

 

 

 

[chris182 6,297]

16 minutes ago, ayrshireranger said:

Apologies if already posted:

 

'Scottish football's mentality is choking any progress'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646285

I'm one of English's fiercest critics because of his role with BBC Scotland and his past shenanigans but theres absolutely nothing I disagree with there. He's nailed it.

[ayrshireranger 8,076]

30 minutes ago, TheFamousPigeon said:

How sad can a club be.

LOOK at that fucking strip with all of its bollocks  

"50th Anniversary of LISBOA 67" - "FAMINE COMMEMORATION DAY" - "ONE STAR"
  All on the top half front of one shirt.

The most classless bunch of vermin I've ever seen.

These idiots ARE aware that Protestants died in the Famine.

Its a myth only Catholics died. Which makes a mockery of any deliberate British policy of a holocaust as the more extreme Irish republicans claim.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

7 minutes ago, chris182 said:

I'm one of English's fiercest critics because of his role with BBC Scotland and his past shenanigans but theres absolutely nothing I disagree with there. He's nailed it.

Agreed.

'Scottish football's mentality is choking any progress'

By Tom English

BBC Scotland

------------------

At the end of a prize fight, two boxers hear a bell and simultaneously raise their arms in triumph, one in hope and one in expectation.

Later, you have a champion pointing at his belt as confirmation of his superiority and you have a beaten man pointing at the champion's bloodied face as confirmation of his moral victory. "I lost, but look at the state of him."

This is where we're at with the SPFL now. Neil Doncaster and his board saw off an opponent on Tuesday, but they suffered some damage in the process.

The chief executive has spoken about a "resounding result" and chairman Murdoch MacLennan has referenced a decision made by an "overwhelming majority". But the fact remains that 13 of the 42 clubs Doncaster represents have serious doubts about what's gone on and want an inquiry into the corporate governance of his regime.

Thirty-one percent is a lot of jabs, a lot of uppercuts, a lot of right hands. It's not enough to put the champ on the canvas, but it's enough to reveal his weakness. And now, it seems, the rival wants a rematch, if Rangers statement is anything to go by.

In victory, Doncaster and MacLennan had adopted a new conciliatory tone, the former talking about "healing divisions" and the latter mentioning that he had taken "careful note of the concerns of the minority", but if an olive branch, of sorts, was extended, it doesn't look like there are many takers right now. "Time is a great healer," said Doncaster. He wouldn't want to be too presumptuous about that.

'Off coast of normality, long way from land'
In recent days and weeks, these are some of the words that have been used by member clubs about the governance of the SPFL and their relationship with the governing body. "Utter shambles". "Farcical". "A distressing lack of confidence and trust in the leadership". "Disingenuous and incompetent". "Arrogant and aggressive". "Outrageous". "Divisive and accusatory". "Disdain and defensiveness". "Selective and patronising". "Singularly failed in its primary duty of care to a member". "A sad indictment of those who govern our game". "The SPFL appears to have taken leave of its senses".

On the other side of the argument the language has been, to use the word of the month, robust. Clubs have been slammed by other clubs for having ulterior motives. Rangers' fabled dossier was rounded on as having "not a shred" of evidence to back up their call for suspensions.

The Ibrox club were said to have a dark agenda which began and ended with null and voiding the season and denying celtic a ninth title in a row. Hearts, Partick Thistle and Stranraer, three clubs who will now be relegated, were written off as organisations who were only acting in their own self interest.

There's been allegations of threats and counter threats, bullying and counter bullying. Statements were brandished like swords. It's hard to say how many libellous or borderline libellous claims were made in some of these missives, but there were a lot. Lawyers would have been swooning at the thought of getting a piece of the action.

From where we are, cast adrift off the coast of normality, it's a long way back to dry land. Doncaster and MacLennan tried to calm things with their words on Tuesday. "Come on, we've all had a drink, everybody calm down" was the gist of what they were saying, but temperatures are so high now that they were met with another volley.

On Tuesday evening, Rangers went again. "A management culture which not only fears accountability and scrutiny, but which actively campaigns against it is unhealthy and breeds continued mistrust," was the fighting talk from Ibrox. "It is clear that many members have lost confidence in the SPFL leadership and the need for change will not diminish. The status quo cannot hold."

That sounds like a club who are not going to do that Homer Simpson thing of disappearing backwards into a hedge. How can they? To stand down now would be to lose face and to more or less confirm that they weren't as serious about highlighting failings as they said they were. Also, they have gained the support of a dozen other clubs and might feel a moral obligation to them to keep fighting.

'Sizeable support in SPFL realpolitik'
Thirteen clubs is a fair old protest vote in a Scottish football context. Three years ago, celtic attempted to shine a light on the inner-workings of the Scottish FA by calling for an independent inquiry into "the events that led to the liquidation of Rangers Oldco and the governance issues arising from those events". It was a wholly legitimate call. There were many unanswered questions - and they remain unanswered.

In terms of failing of governance, what Rangers have said about the SPFL in recent weeks, celtic said about the Scottish FA in 2017. Not as forcefully, for sure. Not with an added demand for the suspension of any staff, that's true. But their case was argued passionately and the episode got extremely bitter at times. Eventually, in part, it led to Stewart Regan's exit from his post as Scottish FA chief executive.

celtic wanted an investigation into the transparency, accountability and leadership of the association. Whether it was out of a sense of mischief-making against his friends down the corridor at Hampden, a genuine desire for openness, or just a move to keep celtic onside in the political game, Doncaster backed them.

It's safe to say that celtic weren't exactly bowled over with the support they got from their fellow clubs. Not many, if any, came out publicly to back the independent review, which fizzled out. This time, 31% of the league have backed it. In the world of realpolitik, that's a sizeable figure and Doncaster will know it.

'Chutzpah needed to make things better'
Scottish football missed an opportunity to examine itself three years ago and it has missed another opportunity now. Strip away the bile and all the inter-club warfare and ask a simple question - can we do better than this? If a neutral party put that to a vote and asked club leaders, players and supporters to respond yes or no, what would the result look like?

Can we do better? The answer, surely, would be an emphatic yes. This is the problem, though. When you try to lift the bonnet to have a look at how things are done, the thing that some want to know first is who's doing the lifting and why? What's their agenda? Who are they acting on behalf of? What are they really trying to do?

That mentality chokes progress. It protects the status quo. Clubs have it in their gift to introduce radical change to the game if they so wish, but they don't want it - or don't want it enough. People like to talk about change, but not many are brave enough to see it through.

Six years ago, Barry Hearn gave an address at Hampden that has gone down in legend. "I'm not an expert on Scottish football," he told his audience of club chairmen, chief executives and managing directors, "and listening to your [financial] figures it doesn't seem like you are either."

That got a nervous laugh from the crowd. Hearn knows about the colour of money. This is a man who once made a success of selling aftershave with pictures of snooker players on the bottle - Eau de Tony Meo, Essence of Terry Griffiths.

"I'm selling out darts arenas for a sport that's not visible to the naked eye," Hearn told them. "I'm saying to the world, 'You need to be involved in this'. I can sell live fishing. Live fishing! I'm good and you're not good enough."

Scottish football would spontaneously combust if the bold Barry was in charge, but some of his chutzpah is desperately needed. "Dress the operation in the clothes of a King even if you're a pauper," he said. "All I can see is a mess. There's no optimism. You're going around looking at your shoelaces and people [broadcasters] are taking advantage.

"The fact that you've got a Scottish Premiership without a sponsor [that is now the situation again], do you know how long you'd work for Barry Hearn if that was the case? You wouldn't have time to take your coat off. You'd be in the car park."

Six years have gone by and the same attitudes prevail now as they did then. Will it be any different in another six years? Once again, strip away the bitterness and ask - can we do better than this? "Sometimes you get stuck up your own backside," said Hearn in his Hampden address. He's right.

So many words have been expended these past weeks, but that line remains the case. Scottish football is still stuck up its own backside.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 hours ago, the cry was no said:

Cheers Tannerall, you prompted me to look at the SRU website and their handling of the crisis was the polar opposite of the SPFL.

Open, honest, all options fairly presented and considered, no conflation with money threats, no board pressure, no false promises, no lies.

We should publicly ask the SRU what, if any, consequences were triggered with sponsors etc due to N&V (worth asking the Dutch too). Rugby relies heavily on commercial revenues and punch well above their weight so I am sure any financial impact would have been fairly addressed for all 5 options presented.

Reading this reaffirmed the absolute corruption that is running and ruining football in Scotland for the benefit of one over 41.

https://www.scottishrugby.org/#

the article is in news on 31 March, well worth a read

Incredible that their sponsors and broadcasters arent screwing them over for their n&v decision the way those involved in scottish football would...

[Tiger Shaw 30,470]

Doncaster still making threats I see, the fat wank just can’t help himself 

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

17 minutes ago, Sweetheart said:

This is what was agreed.

Sky Sports    30 live matches per season until 2020, Saturday-night goal highlights on Sky Sports News
BT Sport    30 live matches per season plus play-offs live until 2020
BBC Alba (UK only)    38 delayed matches on Saturday evenings and 6 live Scottish Championship or Scottish League One matches
BBC Scotland (UK only)    Sunday-night Scottish Premiership Highlights, 20 live Friday-night Scottish Championship matches.

 

 

 

 

The end sentence of that rhs clip above is damning in the argument that there is more risk from n&v than what we opted for.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

Scotland is about 3 weeks behind England in the fight against covid-19. So football should be starting back soon.

 

[GersInCanada 7,775]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

The end sentence of that rhs clip above is damning in the argument that there is more risk from n&v than what we opted for.

It's all in the interpretation.

I can see no claim for matches that they have already broadcast being successful. Only a valid claim for  undelivered product which could kick in however the season is ended.

[tannerall 25,935]

2 hours ago, TheFamousPigeon said:

I thought you might be a rugby man @tannerall ! 

Absolutely agree with this. For me in many ways the way rugby is run as an organisation nationwide could be a great model for football; especially in Scotland. Healthy rivalry but without one clubs hand in the others pockets, and transparent refereeing.

 

Went to a rugby playing school, disliked the game on principal (though I never played it.)

Football was, is, and always will  be my biggest vice.

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

Just now, GersInCanada said:

It's all in the interpretation.

I can see no claim for matches that they have already broadcast being successful. Only a valid claim for  undelivered product which could kick in however the season is ended.

Yes and the spfl legal counsel apparently says the financial risk is the same if it's a n&v ending or a PPG one. 

[Dave Hedgehog 10,673]

38 minutes ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Maybe, that's what's unclear. But they sure as fuck got the same tv coverage and publicity from 29 of our games ending it by n&v that they do from ending it PPG.  The wording of the league conclusion differs, what they've got out of the season doesnt.

Have these sponsors and broadcasters been consulted, do they see differences in what they can recover based on the two identical no of games completed in an incomplete season, but where their action differs based on how the spfl conclude it? Who knows, seen nothing from any sponsor or broadcaster.

I think the fact no one pursues it is because its been taken off the table, and we dont want to be seen to demand it as the whole issue becomes a them v us one. Doesnt mean it's more or less viable than what we ended up with.

 

Spot on you simply cannot null and void a live broadcast of a football match that has already happened. They received their viewing figures, their sponsorship/advertising revenue.

If Sky tried to claw money back for something they already showed they would be liable to return all the money they received themselves. 

That is a road they simply won’t go down 👍

[GersInCanada 7,775]

Just now, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Yes and the spfl legal counsel apparently says the financial risk is the same if it's a n&v ending or a PPG one. 

Doubted that I would ever say this but I agree with the view taken by the SPFL legal chap.

[Sweetheart 8,458]

1 minute ago, SeparateEntityMyArse said:

Yes and the spfl legal counsel apparently says the financial risk is the same if it's a n&v ending or a PPG one. 

They need to be questioned why they think this.

[.Williamson. 82,210]

4 minutes ago, tannerall said:

Went to a rugby playing school, disliked the game on principal (though I never played it.

Football was, is, and always will  be my biggest vice.

You view football as a bad habit?

[SeparateEntityMyArse 53,723]

2 minutes ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Spot on you simply cannot null and void a live broadcast of a football match that has already heppaned. They received their viewing figures, their sponsorship/advertising revenue.

If Sky tried to claw money back for something they already showed they would be liable to return all the money they received themselves. 

That is a road they simply won’t go down 👍

The links SH posts above from our dossier, linked to spfl counsel advice, covers exactly that very clearly.